Pro-life or Pro-choice?

For me, it's situationally dependent and neither answer adequately addresses the full breadth of regularly occurring scenarios. The truth is, it is both and that is why I am pro choice.

So, I take a more pragmatic position on policy because the moral aspect is so complicated and, frankly, useless in this context. "When life begins" and who has what right doesn't ultimately matter because the fundamental invariant here is abortion itself. It's going to happen and it has always happened so should or shouldn't doesn't matter. Policy has to begin from there and address the primary question of: "how do we best support this inevitability in a compassionate way"?


I was fairly certain we understood this as a society and had a decent enough system approximating it, but apparently a non-trivial number of us have gone full retard and are now steering us the wrong direction.
 
I'm impressed and proud to know all you folk if by name only. In any other forum or location this discussion would have turned nasty.

Korg said:
It's going to happen and it has always happened so should or shouldn't doesn't matter. Policy has to begin from there and address the primary question of: "how do we best support this inevitability in a compassionate way"?
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Well said.
 
My deepest condolences to @Milktoast Bandit for losing a friend. (Sincerely)

I believe context is everything, post-conception. We can't make one law fit to a variety of different circumstances. The rigidity of societal structures is the problem. We should be allowed more flexibility. At the very least, if we had to be so structural, it should be illegal to be allowed to conceive without securing necessary permits. If adoption has to be so bureaucratic, the same should apply to the right to have children. In any case, the choice should have begun with the decision to use a condom and the decision to take a pill but then flexibility also means that we cannot judge those who choose irresponsibility. This is a chicken and egg discussion. In any case, churning out baby after baby does not make this world a better place. We grow up and when we don't love each other, we destroy each other anyway. I love babies. We don't deserve these angels when all we do is destroy them and their future world. In the same sense, this world doesn't deserve us humans but we're here anyway. So yeah, pro life or pro choice is a decision that only matters momentarily. We all die anyway.

Deleted member 16771 said:
Is anyone pro-choice for fathers? That's a more interesting question for me. Do those fuckers get a say in anything?
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I wasn't even aware fathers cared. :tongueout: Thanks to @Milktoast Bandit, I now know better.

(I believe I'm mostly kidding although what I say is also partially true)

P.s. where I'm from, teens just churn out babies like a hobby, give them up to older aunties that can't conceive and then corresponding birth certificate applications ensue. It's easy to adopt/pretend to be a biological parent where i'm from because you can literally snatch a kid from a public hospital. I'm not kidding.

I think in general all of our lives are overrated.
 
MINFJToothFairy said:
My deepest condolences to @Milktoast Bandit for losing a friend. (Sincerely)

I believe context is everything, post-conception. We can't make one law fit to a variety of different circumstances. The rigidity of societal structures is the problem. We should be allowed more flexibility. At the very least, if we had to be so structural, it should be illegal to be allowed to conceive without securing necessary permits. If adoption has to be so bureaucratic, the same should apply to the right to have children. In any case, the choice should have begun with the decision to use a condom and the decision to take a pill but then flexibility also means that we cannot judge those who choose irresponsibility. This is a chicken and egg discussion. In any case, churning out baby after baby does not make this world a better place. We grow up and when we don't love each other, we destroy each other anyway. I love babies. We don't deserve these angels when all we do is destroy them and their future world. In the same sense, this world doesn't deserve us humans but we're here anyway. So yeah, pro life or pro choice is a decision that only matters momentarily. We all die anyway.



I wasn't even aware fathers cared. :tongueout: Thanks to @Milktoast Bandit, I now know better.

(I believe I'm mostly kidding although what I say is also partially true)

P.s. where I'm from, teens just churn out babies like a hobby, give them up to older aunties that can't conceive and then corresponding birth certificate applications ensue. It's easy to adopt/pretend to be a biological parent where i'm from because you can literally snatch a kid from a public hospital. I'm not kidding.

I think in general all of our lives are overrated.
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You took the red pill didn't you?
 
As I see a lot of people are mechanically relying on outside authority(culture, state, religion etc) as to know what is moraly right or wrong without ever properly questioning the laws. In my opinion, only when person starts to focus on himself, raise his state of awareness, open himself to suffering by embracing and learning from it which then leads to broader perspective, deeper understanding and new levels of compassion after which he/she will be able to attain true inner morality without being dogmatic. When heart is filled with love it is easy to see what moves us away from it. Inner revolution is what is needed and not more and more laws, regulations etc etc.

I have also noticed that more and more people are going through genuine self-transformation process and so, maybe one day differences between our opinions will disappear and everybody will act as one being. Maybe that day will never come but I am sure that it is worth thing to strive for.
 
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Dado said:
As I see a lot of people are mechanically relying on outside authority(culture, state, religion etc) as to know what is moraly right or wrong without ever properly questioning the laws. In my opinion, only when person starts to focus on himself, raise his state of awareness, open himself to suffering by embracing and learning from it which then leads to broader perspective, deeper understanding and new levels of compassion after which he/she will be able to attain true inner morality without being dogmatic. When heart is filled with love it is easy to see what moves us away from it. Inner revolution is what is needed and not more and more laws, regulations etc etc.

I have also noticed that more and more people are going through genuine self-transformation process and so, maybe one day differences between our opinions will disappear and everybody will act as one being. Maybe that day will never come but I am sure that it is worth thing to strive for.
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Well said, and full of wisdom. Thank you, Dado. :)
 
Personally, I am "pro-choice" and have always been. That being said, I used to be more extreme in my pro-choiceness than I am these days. I understand the other perspective better and I do appreciate more and more the fact that there always is an ideological element in the "battle for x and y rights". I remain pro-choice but I would probably support fairly rigid conditions on when and how it's legal to have an abortion.

What I do most certainly believe, however, is that bringing in religious texts is misguided here. They are not relevant to a discussion that is fundamentally about human beings.
 
MINFJToothFairy said:
I think in general all of our lives are overrated.
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Gadsden Mountain Ranch said:
Neither.

Incest, rape, child with birth defect or debilitating illness. Threat to mothers life. Ok, abort the pregnancy. A mother shouldn't have to bear a rapists child, die in labor or watch her baby with a heart defect suffer

Abortion because "It's my body. A man shouldn't have a say?"

No. That's the baby's body you are killing. Not yours. That baby did nothing wrong to be killed. Also, you needed my semen to have that child. I am as much the parent as you. You didn't self reproduce. Pregnancy is a two way street.

#2 the corruption in the industry. Selling of body parts.

#3 psychological trauma. Killing another human being is a heavy weight for most. Killing your baby because you weren't ready for a child, to me is sickening.

A baby is not an accident.

I've never been laying in bed naked with a raging boner, when coincidentally my upstairs neighbor was directly above me naked when the ceiling collapsed and despite the odds, she landed through the rubble right onto my dick.

Trust me, if that accident happens to me, with THAT lady, suicide may be the best option on the table for me at that point
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Best reply till now!!!
 
Gadsden Mountain Ranch said:
I've never been laying in bed naked with a raging boner, when coincidentally my upstairs neighbor was directly above me naked when the ceiling collapsed and despite the odds, she landed through the rubble right onto my dick.
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Gadsden Mountain Ranch said:
Trust me, if that accident happens to me, with THAT lady, suicide may be the best option on the table for me at that point
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WellwornForkedArgali-size_restricted.gif

t-cruise-png.40402



Sorry... I got carried away
 
Dado said:
everybody will act as one being
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Forgive me for being a noob, I have mostly been snooping around several threads here and I have noticed your quest for enlightenment (which is also very intriguing to me), anyway. About the above quote, but what would be the point if every body acted as one being? Wouldn't that be a little off? I mean I get that all planets in our solar system revolve around the sun but each is unique and it's beautiful that way. If everybody were all enlightened, what would be the point? I am sincerely, genuinely interested.

(Sorry it's a little off topic)
 
Dado said:
As I see a lot of people are mechanically relying on outside authority(culture, state, religion etc) as to know what is moraly right or wrong without ever properly questioning the laws. In my opinion, only when person starts to focus on himself, raise his state of awareness, open himself to suffering by embracing and learning from it which then leads to broader perspective, deeper understanding and new levels of compassion after which he/she will be able to attain true inner morality without being dogmatic. When heart is filled with love it is easy to see what moves us away from it. Inner revolution is what is needed and not more and more laws, regulations etc etc.

I have also noticed that more and more people are going through genuine self-transformation process and so, maybe one day differences between our opinions will disappear and everybody will act as one being. Maybe that day will never come but I am sure that it is worth thing to strive for.
Click to expand...
Well said, Dado.

James 1:2-4
Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds, for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing."
 
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