Problems with the Law of Choice and Freewill

serenesam

Banned
MBTI
INTJ
1). Suicide - If one had choice and freewill, one should be able to commit suicide without any restrictions whatsoever; one should be able to end one's journey. Is it not one that "chose" to come to Earth? Can not one go to school and drop out of school if entering and exiting really is freewill and choice? How does a contract exist if physician-assisted suicide is permitted (see p 108 of http://www.afterlife101.com/Afterlife101.pdf)? Consider the following scenario - if one can't drive (analogously, this is like having no legs), if one can't find a job, if one lost all his/her money (say to gambling or just used it up in the process of finding a job and having to pay bills without a job), if one is forced to be homeless, why should one suffer like this??? Dr. Doreen Virtue states that ["they"] want us to be happy. But what if one is NOT happy? This is like saying you should go to law school even if you are miserable. How is this freewill? One cannot be forced to live a life that one does not want to live - not only is it a waste of time but also not much output and contribution to society can be given.

2). The Forcefield That Captures Souls - Doesn't the law of freewill permit one to not cross over? Does it not permit one to remain earthbound? Why does such a forcefield exist? Is it not a hypocritical enactment by the spiritual realm, the very same forces that talk about freewill and choice? See page 36 of http://www.afterlife101.com/Afterlife101.pdf to find out more of the forcefield.

3). The [spirits] that Captures Souls After Centuries of Dark Entity Incarnations (Medium Browne says this in her book "Phenomenon: Everything You Need to Know About the Paranormal"- This problem is similar to problem #2 - the act of "capturing" souls and take them back Home. Is this not coercion/force? Doesn't the law of freewill permit one to have eternal incarnations as a dark one?

4). The Creation of the Illusion of Choice and Freewill - to make it simple, let's say one has just been discharged from prison and is give the choice of "two hundred dollars" or a "one year discharge program giving them three meals a day, help with job search, and shelter for sleep." How is this even a choice? Is it not logical for one to choose the second option versus the first one? Point is - it appears like it is choice and freewill but it isn't because does it really look like you have an option? This is not different than telling someone "You have to do the one year program." Isn't the outcome or end-result still the same? The person (quotes) chooses (unquote) the one year program. How can one live or survive if one "chose" the first option? Two hundred US dollars won't even last one month's rent. This is similar to someone pointing a gun to your head and saying "give me your money or take this bullet into your head." Does it look like you have much of a choice?

5). The Reality of Limited Options/Opportunities - How can one take charge and/or make the necessary dramatic changes in one's life if such options are limited or opportunities doesn't exist? How can one see the glass half full when one can only see the glass half empty? Such a schemata may have no relation to though patterns at all but rather is due to repeated disappointing events and other circumstances that is outside the control of one. How can one truly fulfill what one wants then? Does this not set limitations and/or poke holes thought the law of freewill? Contrary to the common conventional thinking that one "can do anything if one puts his/her mind to it," that one should "engage in numerous trials even with repeated failures," that one "can make the impossible possible" - there is simply no substantial evidence to support these what my former AP English teacher calls "white lies" and my former developmental psychology professor would say "the DARE program does NOT work." It is true that every now and then, there are a few who "can beat the odds" and they even go on national television like the Montel Williams Show hoping to get across "If I can do it, then you can too" (which is essentially a white lie). But the reality is that most cannot beat the odds - It's like Larry Elder making it sound like everyone can be a lawyer - this is simply illogical and not rational as well as NOT statistically significant from a statistical perspective.

6). Mentalist and/or Other Entities Who Have The Power To `Manipulate' the Thoughts of Others - Is it not against freewill for one to possess a gift with the ability to manipulate the thoughts of others? Funny, such "entities" [humans] who are given such a gift with ability and act to "manipulate" - an identical act in which white entities accuse dark entities for doing "manipulation." If one had complete choice and freewill, then one should be free from the manipulation of these mentalists and/or other entities who can "manipulate" thoughts (aka thought process modification). Such entities like to use words like "inspire" or "encourage" but perhaps I was right all these years of talking to myself - that "inspiration" and "manipulation" really are synonymous. Therefore, it is perfectly a legal move for dark entities to "encourage" ungodly behavior and the means they go about doing it (through the use of manipulation or not) is indeed a legal move, a move that is the exact duplicate of white entities except they have different goals - one is for the purpose of the Light and the other is to deviate from the Light.

7). Power Differentials in Individuals - Such power differentials can lead to a deficiency in one's ability to totally utilize the law of choice and freewill. There is a fear of retaliation from position powered individuals if one were to take a certain course of action and hence, "chooses or don't chooses" the course of action. Simply put it, if someone has power over you (like the government) you do not possess 100% choice and freewill now do you???
 
I'd say that in general our perceptions of our happiness, our needs, our wants...even our perceived liberty and freedom...are clouded. Very. We also tend to have a limited scope of the real choices available to us...aside from outward circumstances, there are inner ones to consider. These kinds of determinations must be made with care, and care is not always applied. Perhaps what we want most is control and I suggest that this is, at it's root, generally a false program at work within us.

If someone is determined to end their life, there really is no one to stop them. But as a species we tend to value life and we miss those whose presence we have come to value. Still, we all have to go some time, and most of us will have some say so (thanks to modern medicine) as to when this moment will occur. Let us make our choices well, considering the decision in a holistic and noble fashion. I have friends who have walked just such a path.
 
Uh is there a point to this? What is your hypothesis? That people don't have unlimited control and power over their own lives? ook..
 
Uh is there a point to this? What is your hypothesis? That people don't have unlimited control and power over their own lives? ook..

Well medium Browne says that we are all here and we have a contract. By committing suicide, we have broken the contract. She even states in her book about how some people who commit suicide are put in a holding place by God. I just question this as this questions freewill. For if we have freewill, we should be able to end our lives if we want to without suffering the negative consequences.
 
For if we have freewill, we should be able to end our lives if we want to without suffering the negative consequences.
freewill means you can do it-- thats it. it has nothing to do with consequences.

1). Suicide - If one had choice and freewill, one should be able to commit suicide without any restrictions whatsoever; one should be able to end one's journey. Is it not one that "chose" to come to Earth? How is this freewill? One cannot be forced to live a life that one does not want to live - not only is it a waste of time but also not much output and contribution to society can be given.
Maybe you did choose to come to earth. Do you remember what happened before you were born?

4). The Creation of the Illusion of Choice and Freewill - to make it simple, let's say one has just been discharged from prison and is give the choice of "two hundred dollars" or a "one year discharge program giving them three meals a day, help with job search, and shelter for sleep." How is this even a choice? Is it not logical for one to choose the second option versus the first one? Point is - it appears like it is choice and freewill but it isn't because does it really look like you have an option? This is not different than telling someone "You have to do the one year program." Isn't the outcome or end-result still the same? The person (quotes) chooses (unquote) the one year program. How can one live or survive if one "chose" the first option? Two hundred US dollars won't even last one month's rent. This is similar to someone pointing a gun to your head and saying "give me your money or take this bullet into your head." Does it look like you have much of a choice?
Yes, there's a choice. Having a clear-cut better choice /= not having a choice.


5). The Reality of Limited Options/Opportunities - How can one take charge and/or make the necessary dramatic changes in one's life if such options are limited or opportunities doesn't exist? How can one see the glass half full when one can only see the glass half empty? Such a schemata may have no relation to though patterns at all but rather is due to repeated disappointing events and other circumstances that is outside the control of one. How can one truly fulfill what one wants then? Does this not set limitations and/or poke holes thought the law of freewill? Contrary to the common conventional thinking that one "can do anything if one puts his/her mind to it," that one should "engage in numerous trials even with repeated failures," that one "can make the impossible possible" - there is simply no substantial evidence to support these what my former AP English teacher calls "white lies" and my former developmental psychology professor would say "the DARE program does NOT work." It is true that every now and then, there are a few who "can beat the odds" and they even go on national television like the Montel Williams Show hoping to get across "If I can do it, then you can too" (which is essentially a white lie). But the reality is that most cannot beat the odds - It's like Larry Elder making it sound like everyone can be a lawyer - this is simply illogical and not rational as well as NOT statistically significant from a statistical perspective.
You play with the cards you were dealt. How does this mean you dont have freewill?

6). Mentalist and/or Other Entities Who Have The Power To `Manipulate' the Thoughts of Others - Is it not against freewill for one to possess a gift with the ability to manipulate the thoughts of others? Funny, such "entities" [humans] who are given such a gift with ability and act to "manipulate" - an identical act in which white entities accuse dark entities for doing "manipulation." If one had complete choice and freewill, then one should be free from the manipulation of these mentalists and/or other entities who can "manipulate" thoughts (aka thought process modification). Such entities like to use words like "inspire" or "encourage" but perhaps I was right all these years of talking to myself - that "inspiration" and "manipulation" really are synonymous. Therefore, it is perfectly a legal move for dark entities to "encourage" ungodly behavior and the means they go about doing it (through the use of manipulation or not) is indeed a legal move, a move that is the exact duplicate of white entities except they have different goals - one is for the purpose of the Light and the other is to deviate from the Light.
lol you sound exactly like an infj e6 that lives next door to me. The person doing the act ultimately does the act. The person influencing the other doesnt do the act for them. What, should we not interact with others ever? Simply being around someone influences them in some way. Your presence influencing someone is different than actively trying to influence someone?

7). Power Differentials in Individuals - Such power differentials can lead to a deficiency in one's ability to totally utilize the law of choice and freewill. There is a fear of retaliation from position powered individuals if one were to take a certain course of action and hence, "chooses or don't chooses" the course of action. Simply put it, if someone has power over you (like the government) you do not possess 100% choice and freewill now do you???
Oh no. Just because it'd be silly to do whatever the fuck you wanted, and you willingly choose not to murder those who wrong you, does not mean you dont have a choice to do so. You willingly choose not too.
 
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Free will =/= freedom from obligation. Every breath you take is a choice, you could make a conscious effort to cease breathing - people around you would have to deal with the consequences of your choice once you're dead (hypothetically speaking, of course).
 
Well medium Browne says that we are all here and we have a contract. By committing suicide, we have broken the contract. She even states in her book about how some people who commit suicide are put in a holding place by God. I just question this as this questions freewill. For if we have freewill, we should be able to end our lives if we want to without suffering the negative consequences.

Agreed.

I think one of the most important life lessons we are here to learn is that Free Will is a liberty and a gift - if one actually obtains it. We cannot realize this unless we go up against what we are trying to choose vs. those who would oppose our choice. Then one has to ask one's self - Why do I choose this act, this thing, this thought, this hope? When we have to pause - when the 'system' thwarts us - it makes us stop and think. Well - it's an opportunity to stop and think. If one does - then this helps accomplish what [MENTION=1098]randomsomeone[/MENTION] said. Choose Carefully.

Regarding suicide and the right to choose to end one's life:
What I've read and heard recently from a section of research suggests we reincarnate to learn the lessons we need. We are born into this body in this time to learn. In fact, they suggest we have the right to choose to come back and reincarnate or not. So - let's say one chose to come back to learn a lesson. In the midst of their life - AND - before they learned the lesson - war breaks out and they are killed prematurely. Their chance to learn ended. They have the choice to come back or remain stuck where they are with no further growth.
What I think the Bible and other religious teachings are saying behind veiled insinuations and social constructs is: If you kill yourself before your lesson is learned - you have done yourself a grave dis-service. You had the choice of free will - but you squandered your gift.
However painful it is - I feel people have the right to end their unbearable pain.
 
freewill means you can do it-- thats it. it has nothing to do with consequences.

"Free will is why suicide is not a solution to your problems. Suicide is not an escape; it merely complicates the process through having to do it all over again. In fact, a suicide is dealt with immediately by the Other Side. The soul is literally forced back into life, with no rest period. The first available body is located, and you must take what you get. You forfeit most of your choices via suicide. Eventually you will be in the same despair, same trouble, same frame of mind, and will experience the same hopelessness, all over again, from the start." - http://www.novus.org/home/theotherside.cfm

So if someone does it, and they are forced to come back, how is this freewill?
 
"We see that God loves us enough to provide the best school possible, and forces us to complete our lessons, so that we can graduate and fulfill our own dreams of becoming more like Him and Her." - http://www.novus.org/home/theotherside.cfm

I find it ironic that "love" and "force" are used in the same sentence. It just seems like the word "force" is used a lot.
 
I find it ironic that "love" and "force" are used in the same sentence.
For a parent it would seem less so. "Force" in the parental model is about guidance and growth, and wanting to move a child in a healthy direction, even though they may not grasp this at the moment. It is purely an expression of love in this context.
 
For a parent it would seem less so. "Force" in the parental model is about guidance and growth, and wanting to move a child in a healthy direction, even though they may not grasp this at the moment. It is purely an expression of love in this context.

Good point, I see what you are saying and don't disagree. Browne notes that here on earth, dark and gray entities represent 70% and white entities represent 30% of the Earth's population. Apparently, God has a lot rebellious children. She even once stated on the Montel Williams Show a while ago that sometimes the Great Spirit sends us dark beings in our lives and our purpose is to do our best to show them the right way, of course, you can't always change anybody, but try your best and move on. In a way, I can see what she was saying yet another part of me was laughing because I see the importance of having both light and dark for without one or the other, growth and development whether it be positive or negative can be fully flourished.
 
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