Protesters at funerals :(

Matariki said:
The Christian God also doesn't allow this, however he doesn't prevent it from happening. The reason being is because he has given us the power of choice, one of the best gifts that anyone could give to humanity, we are responsible for our actions. However we decided to turn our backs on him, through Adam and Eve's fall.

For him to prevent things like this would mean to take away choice (and who wants to live as a puppet?) In many ways, their actions is a solid reminder of sins influence on the world. The only way to take down groups like this is through Spiritual warfare. This is beyond emotional or psychical warfare and beyond the government's power. It is an extremely complicated and intense subject.

God does punish the wicked, psychical proof of this is death. Even though the price for our actions is death, spiritually It is a different matter. God is not only a stern god, but he is also loving. That's why he sent down Christ to die for our sins and take the price, through him we can truly know God. True Christianity is not a religion, it is a realtionship with God. The West Boro Baptist church fail to preach this message.

Thats why I ask for people not to compare us with them. One of reasons why I stand up and speak of my beliefs is because I love humanity and care for the well being of my fellow human, I don't do it to earn brownie points or because god commanded me to, its because I want to, regardless of any discrimination that may be cast towards me and other Christians. Anger towards groups such as the West Boro Baptist church is a completely normal reaction, I would be deeply concerned if their wasn't any anger toward their actions, I'm angry with them! Imagine how angry God must be with them! (I couldn't imagine). :m169:

I do realize that you as well as many other people here on the forums are agnostic.
I am trying my hardest to explain this in a way that doesn't look like that I have gone more insane that Albert Einstein, but I hope that you can see from what I have written that my views are very different to the members of the West Boro Baptist Church and that hopefully its helped shed some light on the subject.
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This is pretty much the standard Christian answer and its a good awnser as it separates them from you. But it still doesn't tackle the real issue and doesn't really do anything. People need to be stopped and not allowed to push this kinda of hate mongering as free speech.

So again good luck to all the Christan folks, but this is just another reason I'm agnostic. Again no god I could fathom would allow such depravity.

So this is my last post in this thread. This is to much hate and religion in one thread for one day for this agnostic heathen.lol
 
At the same time that there is freedom of speech, there is, or should be, a right not to have to hear. Let these haters spew their venomous speech somewhere, but not where mourners at a funeral are forced to hear them.
 
Doesn't the Bible say "Judge not lest ye be judged yourself"? Or was that just made up?
 
88chaz88 said:
Doesn't the Bible say "Judge not lest ye be judged yourself"? Or was that just made up?
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Yes, this is good policy....we simply are not able to judge, it is beyond our scope. Judging represents taking something for ourselves that is not ours to rightfully take. It is very thin ice at best.
 
88chaz88 said:
Doesn't the Bible say "Judge not lest ye be judged yourself"? Or was that just made up?
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Luke 6:37 (King James Bible);
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Luke 6:37 (New International Version);
Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

That translation comes from the King James Bible, which most translations of the bible today are based on. I couldn't help but notice from watching the West Boro Baptist church that they use scripture from this translation of the bible. Since the English language has changed considerably since the King James Bible, the error of misinterpretation is a major factor that needs to be taken into consideration.
 
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Blind Bandit said:
This is pretty much the standard Christian answer and its a good answer as it separates them from you. But it still doesn't tackle the real issue and doesn't really do anything. People need to be stopped and not allowed to push this kinda of hate mongering as free speech.
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I absolutely agree, something does need to be done.

I could say that God will take of everything, and by faith I know he will, but that doesn't mean that we can sit back with a martini glass and watch the world go by. The freedom of speech is one that needs to be readdressed. Freedom of speech should be allowed as long as it doesn't disturb the peace.
Hopefully a law such as that will stop hurtful protesting. However, the positive that comes with the freedom of speech is that it exposes groups like this. It is far better to know that they are doing what they are doing in public than in secret where it could be far more devastating and destructive.

The question is, what can be done from here?

The West Boro Baptist chruch are like those annoying weeds in the garden that keep popping up. You can't keep picking the leaves and the stalks of the weeds off and hope that they will go away. You need to target the root of the problem. That's what I meant by spiritual warfare. There is only so much we can do with politics. This is a problem that needs to be solved by members of the Christian chruch through using the teachings and power of Christ (I know it sounds like something out of a Hollywood movie but please bare with me). I know it may seem hard to understand, but if they claim to be Christian, then it is up to us to take the problem into our hands (from a spiritual point of view).

We are fully aware of what they are doing, and without a doubt there are members of the chruch that are dealing with groups such as the West Boro Baptist church. I stand against groups such as the West Boro Baptist chruch and stand with those that are being targeted and prosecuted by them. We have similar groups here in New Zealand, such as the Destiny Church. So America isn't alone.
 
You should be allowed the freedom to express your religious beliefs up until they begin to interfere with another individual. Then it's harassment. Which is illegal.
It's harassing to the memory of Edwards and therefore the family of the deceased. It's religious harassment and hate speech intended to cause harm and disruption.

They should be able to express themselves inside their church.. and nowhere near the funeral grounds. That means nowhere near anyone passing on their way to the funeral will see them protesting. I don't understand why they are so protected to say whatever they want. They talk nonsense and attempt to whip people up into a frenzy. Their actions should not be tolerated.

People need to get more involved in these things. The KKK is still allowed to hold their asinine rallies, but I have read stories of citizens storming their local government and doing whatever they could to make sure that the KKK could not enter their town to rally.
 
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88chaz88 said:
Doesn't the Bible say "Judge not lest ye be judged yourself"? Or was that just made up?
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I'm pretty sure they don't know how to read. Also I agree with BP, this should be considered harassment.
 
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Barnabas said:
I'm pretty sure they don't know how to read. Also I agree with CDM, this should be considered harassment.
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I dont think I said that. If I did I misspoke.
 
Barnabas said:
hmmmm....... I think I misquoted, it was ACD who said it.
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OK. Because I think they should be allowed to "protest". Even though I think it is strange to protest burying a dead body. Certainly we shouldnt leave it above ground, and we cant protest that hes dead considering we cant resurrect them. They should be able to walk around with signs all they want and yell anything at whomever.
 
You should be allowed to protest things that as citizens, you could potentially change through acting collectively...It makes sense if people protest tax hikes or wars.. or if employees get together and go on strike and protest for better working conditions or benefits..because those things affect their lives as citizens and supposedly, as citizens they have the right to speak out about things they feel are unfair to them.

Protesting that someone is going to hell because they struggled with their faith years and years ago is just ridiculous. It's nonsense. It's harassment and not even protesting.
 
bananaphone said:
You should be allowed to protest things that as citizens, you could potentially change through acting collectively...It makes sense if people protest tax hikes or wars.. or if employees get together and go on strike and protest for better working conditions or benefits..because those things affect their lives as citizens and supposedly, as citizens they have the right to speak out about things they feel are unfair to them.

Protesting that someone is going to hell because they struggled with their faith years and years ago is just ridiculous. It's nonsense. It's harassment and not even protesting.
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That is not what they are protesting at all.
 
[MENTION=731]corndogman[/MENTION] What are they protesting?
 
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bananaphone said:
@corndogman What are they protesting?
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They are protesting homosexuality and Americas acceptance of it by protesting in such a way that it gets everyones attention. Protesting at funerals is what gets them the most publicity. I am not sure if they would be backing the war if there were no gayness going on or not so I am unclear on their stance on the war.
 
That makes no sense and I don't see how it is protesting.
 
If one group of religious folks protest the religious ceremony of another group of religious folks the government should only enforce the laws already on the books. So if it happens in China, the Gov just does as it pleases, if it happens in the USA, the gov has a very limited scope of action.

But what would happen if independent and aligned churches were to roundly condemn unseemly behavior, (like the funeral protest) and not just on the local evening news, but from the pulpit?

The Christians really like to think of the US as a "Christian Nation", I say step up and police yourselves.
 
Dave said:
If one group of religious folks protest the religious ceremony of another group of religious folks the government should only enforce the laws already on the books. So if it happens in China, the Gov just does as it pleases, if it happens in the USA, the gov has a very limited scope of action.

But what would happen if independent and aligned churches were to roundly condemn unseemly behavior, (like the funeral protest) and not just on the local evening news, but from the pulpit?

The Christians really like to think of the US as a "Christian Nation", I say step up and police yourselves.
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The police is made up of Americans formed for the sole purpose of keeping law and order. I dont see why we need subgroups of Americans to be police as well.
 
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