Public Executions & The Death Penalty

[Skarekrow]

Thanks invisible. It makes sense. But I don't really see it as an issue of moral consistency. I do not oppose the death penalty. I think when someone goes out and rapes and murders a child or someone else, they have forfeited their right to live in that society. Why should we continue to support them and provide resources for them? I don't have very strong opinions on this. Ideally, I think all child rapists and murders should be executed. But if as a society , we cannot agree on that, then I would accept life imprisonment. I do not accept that these individuals should receive parole and be out on the streets to do it again. For example, where I live, about 60 miles away, there was a man released from prison who had raped and tortured and murdered a 3 year old and a 6 year old when he was 16. He was incarcerated and then released. Then he got out and molested a 7 year old. Then he went back to prison and was out in a few years before being released. People like this should never have the opportunity to ever prey on another person again. So either execute them or lock them up for life, that's my opinion.

While I agree with all of the above…I would be the guy in court who shoots the guy that raped his son.
Anyhow…there are a lot of people who are wrongly imprisoned…and I’m sure it’s happened that someone who was innocent was put to death.
I agree that there should be a line…and once crossed you lose your life...but we need substantial rules and checks of said line also…I’m not so sure our criminal justice system could handle it honestly.

 

[acd]

While I agree with all of the above…I would be the guy in court who shoots the guy that raped his son.
Anyhow…there are a lot of people who are wrongly imprisoned…and I’m sure it’s happened that someone who was innocent was put to death.
I agree that there should be a line…and once crossed you lose your life...but we need substantial rules and checks of said line also…I’m not so sure our criminal justice system could handle it honestly.

That is true... innocent people do time.

 

[invisible]

Thanks invisible. It makes sense. But I don't really see it as an issue of moral consistency. I think when someone goes out and rapes and murders a child or someone else, they have forfeited their right to live in that society. Why should we continue to support them and provide resources for them? I do not oppose the death penalty but I'm not out there rallying for it. But if as a society , we cannot agree on executing these individuals, then I would accept life imprisonment. I do not accept that these individuals should receive parole and be out on the streets to do it again. For example, where I live, about 60 miles away, there was a man released from prison who had raped and tortured and murdered a 3 year old and a 6 year old when he was 16. He was incarcerated and then released. Then he got out and molested a 7 year old. Then he went back to prison and was released again this summer. People like this should never have the opportunity to ever prey on another person again. So either execute them or lock them up for life, that's my opinion.

Yeah, it may not be important to be morally consistent, although I think that's where my personal beliefs are. But it's interesting to think about, I do want to think about it more, critically (when it's not very late at night). I agree that there are cases that are beyond rehabilitation also.

 

[Colt]

I don't know about making it a spectacle per say. But I've watched some documentaries about the horrible things gangs do to innocent people and it makes me wish that a large police or military force would just come into these gang ridden areas, and find the known gang members and put a bullet through the back of their skulls. I don't understand how people like that are allowed to wreck havoc on the rest of society. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Stu]

Capital punishment most elicits our views of "justice". Traditional human societies demand the aggrieved family to be compensated by the family of the killer which usually includes the life of the killer. There is a part of most of us that craves the experience of doing physical harm to those who wrong us. Public executions at least allow those who need it a venue in which to satisfy that.

The question is, do we as a society benefit from that allowance?
My gut says no.

 

[invisible]

Capital punishment most elicits our views of "justice". Traditional human societies demand the aggrieved family to be compensated by the family of the killer which usually includes the life of the killer. There is a part of most of us that craves the experience of doing physical harm to those who wrong us. Public executions at least allow those who need it a venue in which to satisfy that.

The question is, do we as a society benefit from that allowance?
My gut says no.

To me, retributive justice seems to achieve more of the stuff that was wrong in the first place, while the wronged person wonders why they remain angry and destroyed, or while their families continue to wonder why they are dead.

 

[Asa]

A friend posted this quote the other day. Seems to fit the topic. It certainly doesn't give an answer, but it adds to the conversation:

She was asked what she had learned from the Holocaust and she said that 10% of any population is cruel, no matter what, and that 10% of the population is merciful, no matter what, and that the remaining 80% could be moved in either direction.
- Kurt Vonnegut

 

[acd]

A friend posted this quote the other day. Seems to fit the topic. It certainly doesn't give an answer, but it adds to the conversation:

She was asked what she had learned from the Holocaust and she said that 10% of any population is cruel, no matter what, and that 10% of the population is merciful, no matter what, and that the remaining 80% could be moved in either direction.
- Kurt Vonnegut

What do you think it adds?

 

[PintoBean]

While I think they should be executed, I don't think the world needs to make a spectacle of their torture.
It's not necessarily about vengeance, but working towards eradicating a threat and deterring others from radicalizing.

Why do we use the word "radicalize"? Like I could be a radical vegetarian or a radical humanitarian. What do we really mean when we say "radicalized?" This isn't rhetorical or snide. I have my own opinions of why that word is chosen and used, but I'd like to hear from the perspective of others the reasoning of that particular word choice.

 

[JJJA]

Why do we use the word "radicalize"? Like I could be a radical vegetarian or a radical humanitarian. What do we really mean when we say "radicalized?" This isn't rhetorical or snide. I have my own opinions of why that word is chosen and used, but I'd like to hear from the perspective of others the reasoning of that particular word choice.

Many people use it to make excuses for terrorism.

 

[acd]

Why do we use the word "radicalize"? Like I could be a radical vegetarian or a radical humanitarian. What do we really mean when we say "radicalized?" This isn't rhetorical or snide. I have my own opinions of why that word is chosen and used, but I'd like to hear from the perspective of others the reasoning of that particular word choice.

Radicalized Islam as in terrorism. What else should it be called? Other than terrorism? Is extremist problematic? Ordinary average Muslims aren't blowing non Muslims (and each other... Basically anyone) up.

 

[Asa]

It is interesting to consider whether it is true, or at least generally true (if not precisely 10%) that a small part of the population is cruel, a small part is merciful, and the rest are swayed by the loudest opinion. Mob mentality and crowds at public executions suggest it could be. It is true that a lot of people do enjoy seeing "blood", so to speak.

I don’t believe I am part of the 80% and I’d guest most of you don’t either, nor would I accuse anyone of being in the 80%. I believe in average life I am merciful, but I also believe most humans are not all good or all bad. We're not that special. A few people are historically incredibly good, merciful, and selfless, and typically risk their lives to be so. Another small percent are actually evil. The rest of us are in the middle. Are we the 80%? How humbling if we are.

 

[Asa]

Why do we use the word "radicalize"? Like I could be a radical vegetarian or a radical humanitarian. What do we really mean when we say "radicalized?" This isn't rhetorical or snide. I have my own opinions of why that word is chosen and used, but I'd like to hear from the perspective of others the reasoning of that particular word choice.

Why do we use the word "radicalize"? Like I could be a radical vegetarian or a radical humanitarian. What do we really mean when we say "radicalized?" This isn't rhetorical or snide. I have my own opinions of why that word is chosen and used, but I'd like to hear from the perspective of others the reasoning of that particular word choice.

From my perspective, there are radical vegetarians and humanitarians, both violent and non-violent. Salt Lake City has a reputation for violent vegan (and straight-edge) action, the ALF, The Bands of Mercy (Ronnie Lee and Cliff Goodman), Barry Horne, perhaps Peter Singer.
The African National Congress was considered a terrorist group. US Civil Rights leaders were and are considered "radical", Suffragettes in both the US and UK were "radical", the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia (which the Czech Republic's president Vaclav Havel was part of). The list goes on .... full of both violent and non-violent people and groups considered to be threats for ideas some of us think are "good".
Could also mention a really tricky one... the IRA. Are they terrorists? They don't think so. Half my Irish friend don't think so.... other people do.

PS: I'm not saying I side w/ any of these or agree that they were "radical", but they are known for it.

 

[Kgal]

I was just looking at some art from centuries ago depicting burning witches, public hangings, beheadings, and public executions in general. The images always show a crowd watching. I don't get what the lure was/is to watch something like that. Was it mandatory the whole town come to those back in those periods of history or did people actually enjoy them? Can the general public still attend executions? Not that I would want to witness that. I was just reading the death penalty is legal in 31 of US states and I can't get an exact number for how many countries still use it. Strange and morbid topic to ponder but also a little interesting. Not sure if this is the correct forum for this topic. Any thoughts?

I think humanity's level of consciousness was lower back then during the burnings and public executions.
Personally I think they were "encouraged" to attend as part of keeping them trapped in Fear.

When my parents lived in Saudi Arabia for 7 years back in the 80's they were invited to a beheading in the town square of a rural city called Yanbu. Mom said none of the Westerners would go...but they heard that villagers were made to attend. Mom said when they went "shopping" for food in Yanbu they'd see men standing around on the corners of the streets with machine guns across their backs. Mom also talked of what was called the "Religious Police" who were constantly monitoring what the women wore and the actions of the people. One time they came up and used a black magic marker to mark on her body where her clothing should be to cover her skin.

So I think in the early days the peasants - the slaves - the oppressed ones - were made to witness the brutality and horror in order to keep them manageable.

 

[hush]

So I think in the early days the peasants - the slaves - the oppressed ones - were made to witness the brutality and horror in order to keep them manageable.

Control through fear and terror. "If you step out of line, this could be you next."

 

[Asa]

When my parents lived in Saudi Arabia for 7 years back in the 80's they were invited to a beheading in the town square of a rural city called Yanbu. Mom said none of the Westerners would go...but they heard that villagers were made to attend. Mom said when they went "shopping" for food in Yanbu they'd see men standing around on the corners of the streets with machine guns across their backs. Mom also talked of what was called the "Religious Police" who were constantly monitoring what the women wore and the actions of the people. One time they came up and used a black magic marker to mark on her body where her clothing should be to cover her skin.

A friend who lived there at the same time has similar stories. Her group of peers were Christian and they had one small, plastic Christmas tree to share, which was a crime and a huge act of rebellion.

 

[Kgal]

Control through fear and terror. "If you step out of line, this could be you next."

Exactly!

That...and a lack of being able to have a true range of emotions. Probably back then...like there is now...a whole lot of people only felt alive when they were exposed to fear and terror.

 

[#@&5&49]

invited to a beheading in the town square

I can't even think of words to respond. I would be terrified to go and terrified not to go. What a position to put people in. I think if I had to live under those circumstances I would be living in a constant state of fear.

 

[Skarekrow]

It is interesting to consider whether it is true, or at least generally true (if not precisely 10%) that a small part of the population is cruel, a small part is merciful, and the rest are swayed by the loudest opinion. Mob mentality and crowds at public executions suggest it could be. It is true that a lot of people do enjoy seeing "blood", so to speak.

I don’t believe I am part of the 80% and I’d guest most of you don’t either, nor would I accuse anyone of being in the 80%. I believe in average life I am merciful, but I also believe most humans are not all good or all bad. We're not that special. A few people are historically incredibly good, merciful, and selfless, and typically risk their lives to be so. Another small percent are actually evil. The rest of us are in the middle. Are we the 80%? How humbling if we are.

The quote doesn’t necessarily have to be true either.
So you may or may not be part of any percentage.
IMO most people (the majority) are good, and want good things for the rest of humanity.
What this quote refers to is apathy…as in 80% could care little either way.
That I believe could be true…but then the question is why be apathetic when it is usually beneficial to the majority to help one another as opposed to not?
Ignorance?
Certainly you can still be a good person and be ignorant…but not neglectfully so.
That boils down to personal responsibility, which is not only lacking in our society but is encouraged by twats like the Kardashians.
For all those who are too apathetic to care enough to even vote on those who make laws such as the death penalty…don’t bitch about how you disagree with it or other such things if you're uninvolved to the point of forming a personal opinion from the 30 second piece you saw on the nightly news.
I generally believe that most people are good though.

 

[Kgal]

I can't even think of words to respond. I would be terrified to go and terrified not to go. What a position to put people in. I think if I had to live under those circumstances I would be living in a constant state of fear.

My parents were horrified...but Dad took it as part of what that country was about. True to the ones who follow the leader he was there to make money and he was in a high position of authority...and a Man...so he didn't feel too threatened. Mom on the other hand...wow...that took guts for her to be there with Dad. Since they lived in the Western base camp they weren't required to attend.

And yes... it was a horrible thing to do to the people in that rural town.

The weird thing was.... that another much larger city up the coast from Yanbu was very modernized - Westernized - and Mom and Dad felt at complete ease to be themselves there. They told us people wore westernized clothing including women wearing pants and uncovered faces etc. It was incredible to see th 180 degree difference between those two coastal towns. It was as if Yanbu was caught in a time warp of the 14th century while Jeddah was completely in the 20th century.