Questions About Christianity

@muir , You can't get the Christmas spirit? Who do you thank when you have something to be thankful for? Yourself?

I grow tired of seeing and reading the same anti-religious garbage from you, and I can't even post a wonderful light show with Christian and Christmas music in it? Some of us take our religion and faith very seriously, and you are like the pink bunny on steroids. It's December and there are a lot of folk getting ready to celebrate what they believe.

Think I want to look at a pic of a bunch of grown men in rags with no shirts? Ever wonder how I even feel about a skull and crossbones? How do you think I feel with your insinuations people are idol-worshipping? You cannot destroy my faith, and I am not alone. I feel like I am watching a broken record. I tire from it.

My questions are much different. Why did man and woman, having everything they wanted or needed, have to have the one thing they were asked to leave alone? Temptations and lies from one that could not deal with seeing all that power, just to undermine man and woman to try and disrupt God's creation is to me a form of vengeful jealousy. Everyone wants to blame everything on God, but he returned and found them hiding because they were ashamed.
They knew they were naked, but God had not told them they were naked or it was wrong to be so.

I see so much of those verses in modern day times. I was actually trying to lighten up a bit in this thread.
 
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Although I agree with 'just me' in his stance, I've got to say, let's avoid a full blown flame war of religion and the like. This thread is to answer questions regarding Christianity, not debate as to it's validity or anything other than answer questions.
 
I think it's going okay. :)
 
@muir , You can't get the Christmas spirit?

Sure. But i do it with eyes wide open. I know that the roots of christmas go way back before christianity. I know that it has pagan roots and that it is related to the movement of the sun in the sky

I think that what is important is peoples INTENT when doing things. For example i have met plenty of decent christians. Their intent with their faith is positive and they are engaging with it in a way that helps them be decent people.

I have also met plenty of decent jews and plenty of decent muslims. My issue is really with the institutions and what the agenda of the people who steer those institutions is. I believe they have an agenda that is harmful to the psyche of humanity as a whole

I will enjoy christmas and i will be bringing plenty of positive vibes to the situation because it is all about intent.

What the elites want is negativity. They want to lower the vibrational energy field. That is why they hold up sick icons of a man being tortured on a cross in their temples to get people to fixate on a very negative event.

The catholic church also runs on guilt and says that we are sinful beings who must fear god. I don't agree with their agenda of guilt and fear; i think that through those mechanisms the elites are trying to lower the vibrational energy field and keep people stuck in a small mind

Who do you thank when you have something to be thankful for? Yourself?

I thank the great spirit

My belief is that we are all part of the universal consciousness that is manifesting in this material world in subjective forms. I think that we are imprisoned by mind. When we quieten mind we can connect with the universal spirit and can experience the current of unconditional love. This is why the early church fathers retrerated to the deserts and islands and far flung places so that they could reconnect with the greater spirit. It is why sufis talk about polishing the heart or making our minds into a still lake. It is the reason why jewish mystics say we must transcend the world of duality to reconnenct with the universal consciousness

This is why the modern world is so full of noise and distraction and shiny disposable rubbish; this is why there is consumerism. It is because the elites want to keep everyone in mind and they want to keep our minds as cluttered with psychic baggage as possible. To this end they have sculpted organised religions to control the perceptions of people.

Despite these mind prisons many people still connect with the greater whole because they are a part of it, they have just been brainwashed into forgetting that

I don't believe in hell; i think when our bodies die we reconnect with the universal consciousness.

I believe that humanity is all part of the same consciousness but that wedges have been driven between people to keep them divided and to make them forget that they are all one.

Organised religions are used as wedges to keep humanity divided and antagonistic towards each other. this is all part of a coherent strategy by occultist elites who are using their understanding of human psychology to control people and that is why the world is the mess that it is

The gnostics called these divisive forces 'archons'. In the gnostic film the 'matrix' the archons were called 'Agent Smiths'. These divisive forces prey on the negative energys of humanity. They lack the creative abilities of humans and instead can only replicate or distort the work of humans. One of the ways that they do this is to subvert and invert everything decent that humans do.

This is why in the news there are people constantly saying one thing but doing another. For example they will say that they are for 'democracy' whislt they are torturing people, detaining them without trial and bombing and shooting children. These are the archontic forces at play in our world

This might all sound a bit strange. But it is my belief that science is going to come to a certain realisation about the nature of our reality....that it is not as it seems. In fact science is already discussing possibilities such as the holographic universe concept

It is beginning to look very much as if time and space are an illusion of the senses. The buddhists called this illusion 'maya', the ancient egyptian call this illusion a god called 'Thoth' who equates to the Greek god hermes. thoth is depicted with an ape who represents the often misleading quality of the illusion

There have been shamanistic cultures all around the world talking about this stuff and they have all been violently shut down as part of 'imperialism'. What imperialism really means is that a freemasonic elite who have created a judeo-christian establishment ahve moved in and violently suppressed any peoples who looked within for their truths and who cultivated a relationship with the unconscious mind. This is because the freemasonic elite want everyone looking OUTSIDE themselves for their truths. This is so that they can give you THEIR truth. 'Worship this', 'kneel here', 'say 10 hail marys', 'repent', 'don't question just have blind faith' etc etc

This all disempowers the individual and it is all about control

Here is a quote by Chief Seattle about the difference between the judeo-christian establishment and the ways of the native americans:

''To us the ashes of our ancestors are sacred and their resting place is hallowed ground. You wander far from the graves of your ancestors and seemingly without regret. Your religion was written upon tablets of stone by the iron finger of your God so that you could not forget. The Red Man could never comprehend or remember it. Our religion is the traditions of our ancestors -- the dreams of our old men, given them in solemn hours of the night by the Great Spirit; and the visions of our sachems, and is written in the hearts of our people. ''

The judeo-christian approach is one of laws passed down from the elites written with an unforgiving 'iron hand' whislt the natives perceptions are derived from visions and dreams and their relationship with their inner guide...their unconscious mind....the 'great spirit'

Here is a quote by an african leader Jomo Kenyatta about the effects of the judeo-christian establishment (ie freemasonry) on his lands and people:

“When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”

I grow tired of seeing and reading the same anti-religious garbage from you, and I can't even post a wonderful light show with Christian and Christmas music in it? Some of us take our religion and faith very seriously, and you are like the pink bunny on steroids. It's December and there are a lot of folk getting ready to celebrate what they believe.

Someone once said that you're free to have your own opinions but your not free to have your own facts. The fact remains that christmas is a pagan ceremony and even the catholic church says it is not the birth date of Jesus. That will remain objectively true whether you believe it or not

Also i think the elites have pushed the consumerism side of christmas. The coca cola company created santa claus and has made all of us spin a massive lie to our children each year....what a great way to start our young people slife huh...with lies. But of course that's what they do because they invert everything....that is their modus operandi

The occult is about hidding things in plain sight. This is because everything in our universe is energy. EVERYTHING. Even thoughts and words are energy. even symbols are energy and that is why symbols are very important to the corporations and the freemasonic elites that run them

I mentioned coca cola before so lets use them as an example of hidden in plain sight. How many times have you seen the coca cola logo in your life? Thousands? tens of thousands? hundreds of thousands? Did you know that coca cola originally had extract from coco leaves in it ie cocaine to make it more addictive? if you turn their logo on its side and look closely you can see two faces on it, this is all subliminal. This is because the elite know how to key into our unconscious minds whilst keeping us unconscious of what they are doing. Marketing is all about trying to affect us on different levels many of which we are not even conscious of:

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Think I want to look at a pic of a bunch of grown men in rags with no shirts?

Are you referring to the song by the band 'killing joke' or to the pop video of Jay Z and Rhiana?

The killing joke song is pretty dark but it mentions some pretty important things. It is talking about the freemasons: 'i'm a 33rd degree, i'll do as i please', 'a member of the serpent clan', 'power for powers sake', 'two weeks off in Bohemia Grove' etc. the song is pointing out the dark forces that are controlling our society from behind the scenes. The archontic forces that are keeping us trapped in mind and divided amongst ourselves.

If you are talking aout the Jay Z video with a different track laid over the top. I posted that one to make a strong statement about what sort of stuff is being put out there in the corporate media by the freemasonic judeo-christian establishment.

Look at the images that young children are being bombarded with. look at the role models the corporate system is putting forward as role models for children: lady ga ga or madonna!

Here is an image of Madonna doing the half time performance at the super bowl. bare in mind that this is one of the most viewed events in the US:

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She is depicting the high priestess of the tarot cards, pulled on a chariot by two sphinxes. How many christians watching the superbowl know what they are lookin at and why?

Ever wonder how I even feel about a skull and crossbones?

Yes, i'd love to know what you feel about the skull and bones

How do you think I feel with your insinuations people are idol-worshipping? You cannot destroy my faith, and I am not alone. I feel like I am watching a broken record. I tire from it.

No ones making you watch. you know what my posts are about so exercise your personal judgement over whether or not to engage with it

What is your 'faith' in justme? Is it in your god or in the church, because the two are not the same thing

My questions are much different. Why did man and woman, having everything they wanted or needed, have to have the one thing they were asked to leave alone? Temptations and lies from one that could not deal with seeing all that power, just to undermine man and woman to try and disrupt God's creation is to me a form of vengeful jealousy. Everyone wants to blame everything on God, but he returned and found them hiding because they were ashamed.
They knew they were naked, but God had not told them they were naked or it was wrong to be so.

I see so much of those verses in modern day times. I was actually trying to lighten up a bit in this thread.

The story of adam and eve is just that...a story

It is a story written by people. It contains the complexity and flaws of humanity
 
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It's Sunday, for Christ's sake... *He sighs* I'll make a reply when I get back, and probably get a more-informed reply as a response leaving me stumped and looking stupid. But I've got to get off to church in a half hour.
 
It's Sunday, for Christ's sake... *He sighs* I'll make a reply when I get back, and probably get a more-informed reply as a response leaving me stumped and looking stupid. But I've got to get off to church in a half hour.

Sunday...named after the sun, just as saturday is named after saturn

These are very important to the archontic forces
 
*Sigh* http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/

Seriously. The 'wordplay' is annoying the hell out of me.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. That includes you. But when you start insulting my beliefs, especially when you insult the beliefs of others, and claim that all we're out to do is enslave the Human race by tricking them with religion, you simply become an idiotic anti-zealot that wishes only to see the destruction of a unified religious belief.

Next time check the references of the people you reference. And try to avoid listing megalomaniacs who try to find meaning where there isn't meaning.
 
*Sigh* http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/articles/zeitgeist/

Seriously. The 'wordplay' is annoying the hell out of me.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. That includes you. But when you start insulting my beliefs, especially when you insult the beliefs of others, and claim that all we're out to do is enslave the Human race by tricking them with religion, you simply become an idiotic anti-zealot that wishes only to see the destruction of a unified religious belief.

Next time check the references of the people you reference. And try to avoid listing megalomaniacs who try to find meaning where there isn't meaning.

Hi Cerce

Here's my view on it. Your relationship with the ineffable is YOUR business. Nothing i or anyone else says should make the blindest bit of difference to that

Its something that we nurture and cultivate and which guides us

What i'm talking about is what happens when humans get together and make organisations whether secular or religious and how powerful people always seek to take over and control anything that they see as influential. unfortunately this happens all the time

I'm not writing off christianity entirely. I think there's some good stuff in there. For example the idea that the kingdom of heaven is within. What i see that as meaning is that the spiritual process is an internal one....its your personal intuitive journey

I had a look at the website you posted and i don't really see it as a credible rebuttal of the points made in the zeitgeist movie

Perhaps the best approach is to look into a wide variety of sources from both those groups you agree with but also those groups you disagree with?

For example Joseph Campbell has written a lot of good books on comparitive mythology. Carl Jung has some very interesting things to say about all this. Then there are books like James George Frazers book 'the golden bough'

What these authors are doing is stepping outwith human culture and looking at all of it in an objective and comparitive way. the results are often fascinating and delightful because they show us what it is to be human and about our shared condition

The bible was made up of a number of different books. These books were hand chosen by elites. Over 50 books were rejected in this process because they did not fit the subjective view of the elite who were composing the work

However the other 50 books have as much validity as the 4 chosen gospels. Recent discoveries of scrolls found at nag hammadi and by the dead sea have provided us with a new perspective on christianity

This is not something to be concerned about. All it does is add to the rich tapestry of spiritual documents that are the heritage of humanity.

Its my view that people should look at all of it and see what resonates with them rather than just stick rigidly to the curriculum set by an elite hundreds of years ago

Because there is some fascinating stuff out there that can tell us alot about ourselves, each other and the world we live in. The bible doesn't provide the full picture
 
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@all

There is room for everyone in this thread. :)

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] is just as welcome to post his ideas and thoughts on religion, just as you are [MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION] at pointing out some ridiculous Christmas trends, as [MENTION=6017]wonkavision[/MENTION] is about strongly defending his beliefs, and [MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION] for describing my questions as foolish babbling.

Try not to be offended or take anything personally. Think of this more as a freedom of expression on a controversial topic. It's not about hate and/or invalidating one's beliefs. It's about understanding where one's beliefs come from, challenging them, accepting and respecting that everyone has their own opinion without trying to make anyone else accept your own beliefs.

I also advise that if a post gets under your skin, it is better to simply explain how you feel and/or just walk away. Don't argue who/what is right or wrong, because it will never go well. Please, try not to make it personal.

Maybe this makes me a bad person, but I am indifferent to people's beliefs. I stand by my 'prattling' (:P [MENTION=1848]Barnabas[/MENTION]) or as I like to call it, sillyserious. I learned a few things that I did not know, which is cool (thanks to [MENTION=6017]wonkavision[/MENTION], [MENTION=6646]Cerce[/MENTION], and others that I can't remember now -- sorry). I think a lot of certain rituals and beliefs in life are 'stupid', for lack of a better word. And this may sound paradoxical, but I do not believe that those who do value and partake in those rituals and beliefs are somehow 'stupid' or wrong by association. I do not think you are wrong for believing in something I think is wrong. I just think you see something that I don't. It's a different way of thinking or seeing the world. I think that people who do not understand this are far too rigid in their thinking. It makes me think of Bush's statement of "if you're not with us, then you're against us". I beg to differ, there is an option C, Switzerland; the neutral option.

My 2 cents. Have a wonderful day! :)
 
*He pauses for a moment, looking [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] strangely*

You act as though that I should only care about my journey with God. I don't think you understand. I don't think I could help you to understand. But we (or, at least, those I am around and those I confide in), as Christians, are here on this earth to live life in a Godly way, to bring praise to God, and to lead others to Him. We put ourselves out openly because the alternative is so daunting, so final. So... heart-wrenchingly awful that I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

You see, if we don't go, if we don't spread the word, if we don't try and help people to learn of God, to walk with God, and to love God as God loves them, they will die. They will die not once, but twice. And that scares the living hell out of me. The fact that I probably will never convince you that you are going to die, and then die again for all of eternity (I don't mean that you die and are dead; I mean you are dying for ever and ever, this constant process of pain and torment), is pulling at me in such a way I can't even help you relate to. It's like I'm sitting here, watching people jump off a cliff, and I know that if I tried to stop them from jumping, I'd be labeled as some Crusader hell bent on destroying other people's way of life. But when faced between the alternative of watching someone walk unwittingly to their doom, I'd rather be labeled far worse than a zealot.

We're not here to rule the world, or to tell people what's right and wrong. We're here because we were put here by God, and I'll be damned if I don't do what He has planned. Literally.

As to your stance against the church... Read Mark chapter 13. Jesus himself said that there are going to be people who rise up in His name and mislead 'even God's chosen ones'.

5 Jesus replied, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, 6 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’[a] They will deceive many. 7 And you will hear of wars and threats of wars, but don’t panic. Yes, these things must take place, but the end won’t follow immediately. 8 Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in many parts of the world, as well as famines. But this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come.

9 “When these things begin to happen, watch out! You will be handed over to the local councils and beaten in the synagogues. You will stand trial before governors and kings because you are my followers. But this will be your opportunity to tell them about me. 10 For the Good News must first be preached to all nations.[c] 11 But when you are arrested and stand trial, don’t worry in advance about what to say. Just say what God tells you at that time, for it is not you who will be speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

12 “A brother will betray his brother to death, a father will betray his own child, and children will rebel against their parents and cause them to be killed. 13 And everyone will hate you because you are my followers.[d] But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

14 “The day is coming when you will see the sacrilegious object that causes desecration[e] standing where he[f] should not be.” (Reader, pay attention!) “Then those in Judea must flee to the hills. 15 A person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. 16 A person out in the field must not return even to get a coat. 17 How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for nursing mothers in those days. 18 And pray that your flight will not be in winter. 19 For there will be greater anguish in those days than at any time since God created the world. And it will never be so great again. 20 In fact, unless the Lord shortens that time of calamity, not a single person will survive. But for the sake of his chosen ones he has shortened those days.

21 “Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. 23 Watch out! I have warned you about this ahead of time!
 
*He pauses for a moment, looking @muir strangely*

You act as though that I should only care about my journey with God. I don't think you understand. I don't think I could help you to understand. But we (or, at least, those I am around and those I confide in), as Christians, are here on this earth to live life in a Godly way, to bring praise to God, and to lead others to Him. We put ourselves out openly because the alternative is so daunting, so final. So... heart-wrenchingly awful that I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

I appreciate your concern but honestly you have nothing to worry about

Would an all loving, all understanding, all knowing god really banish anyone to an eternity of suffering? No of course not

No one is gonna be surfing the lake of fire. That idea is a corruption of one passed down from the Egyptians who talked of a process of karmic balance. They depicted this process visually as a scene where the deceased person has their heart weighed by Anubis against the feather of Maat. It was then decided how you had on balance lived your life.

This material world we live in is a world of duality. The 'devil' is simply anything that keeps us rooted in this material world. To transcend this material world is to unify the opposites and balance out the karma. The teachings of jesus are held by many to be 'non dualism'. He was preaching about transcending the world of matter by unifying the opposites.

here's a wikipedia page about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondualism

Beyond the realm of the senses is a realm of infinate possibility. Everything is birthed there and then manifests here on the material world. It is like a giant computer simulation. Praying is almost a form of visualisation of something in the realm of potentiality in order to try and manifest it in the material realm. Magicians use the techinique of sigils to try and manifest things from this realm.

Are they talking about this stuff in church? They certainly didn't when i went to church

You see, if we don't go, if we don't spread the word, if we don't try and help people to learn of God, to walk with God, and to love God as God loves them, they will die. They will die not once, but twice. And that scares the living hell out of me. The fact that I probably will never convince you that you are going to die, and then die again for all of eternity (I don't mean that you die and are dead; I mean you are dying for ever and ever, this constant process of pain and torment), is pulling at me in such a way I can't even help you relate to. It's like I'm sitting here, watching people jump off a cliff, and I know that if I tried to stop them from jumping, I'd be labeled as some Crusader hell bent on destroying other people's way of life. But when faced between the alternative of watching someone walk unwittingly to their doom, I'd rather be labeled far worse than a zealot.

We're not here to rule the world, or to tell people what's right and wrong. We're here because we were put here by God, and I'll be damned if I don't do what He has planned. Literally.

As to your stance against the church... Read Mark chapter 13. Jesus himself said that there are going to be people who rise up in His name and mislead 'even God's chosen ones'.

5 Jesus replied, “Don’t let anyone mislead you, 6 for many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah.’[a] They will deceive many. 7 And you will hear of wars and threats of wars, but don’t panic. Yes, these things must take place, but the end won’t follow immediately. 8 Nation will go to war against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes in many parts of the world, as well as famines. But this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come.

I would agree with jesus here that you should be wary of anyone calling themself a messiah!

I think it's ok to learn from others but ultimately you must be your own guide
9 “When these things begin to happen, watch out! You will be handed over to the local councils and beaten in the synagogues. You will stand trial before governors and kings because you are my followers. But this will be your opportunity to tell them about me. 10 For the Good News must first be preached to all nations.[c] 11 But when you are arrested and stand trial, don’t worry in advance about what to say. Just say what God tells you at that time, for it is not you who will be speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

12 “A brother will betray his brother to death, a father will betray his own child, and children will rebel against their parents and cause them to be killed. 13 And everyone will hate you because you are my followers.[d] But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

14 “The day is coming when you will see the sacrilegious object that causes desecration[e] standing where he[f] should not be.” (Reader, pay attention!) “Then those in Judea must flee to the hills. 15 A person out on the deck of a roof must not go down into the house to pack. 16 A person out in the field must not return even to get a coat. 17 How terrible it will be for pregnant women and for nursing mothers in those days. 18 And pray that your flight will not be in winter. 19 For there will be greater anguish in those days than at any time since God created the world. And it will never be so great again. 20 In fact, unless the Lord shortens that time of calamity, not a single person will survive. But for the sake of his chosen ones he has shortened those days.

21 “Then if anyone tells you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah,’ or ‘There he is,’ don’t believe it. 22 For false messiahs and false prophets will rise up and perform signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even God’s chosen ones. 23 Watch out! I have warned you about this ahead of time!


Please bare in mind that the bible was composed long after the time when jesus was said to be around. How can we be totally sure that the message has come down completely unaltered?

I think that christianity (and islam which i'll mention in a minute) have sought to put a cap on certain things

For exmaple before christianity female deities were represented in three aspects depicting the three stages of a womans development: virgin, mother, old woman. The male deity was depicted as a dying and rebirth god....these were cycles reflected in the cycles of nature

What the elites who shaped christianity did was put a cap on those things. They said that their dying and rebirth god (jesus) was the last as he was going to go and take his place in heaven until judgement day. The female deity (mary) was a virgin mother. This is clearly not possible. A woman can be a virgin or a mother but not both. But this story was created so that the cycle would be broken

This distortion of the old cyclical gods disconnected people from the cycles of nature and from their own inner and outer cycles

Anyway i could go on, but the point i want to make is that the fear you feel over people burning in hell is a thought that has been planted in your mind by religion. It is designed to make you follow the precepts of that religion as outlined by the authors of it

Its a horrible fear to burden anyone with

Islam also put a cap on this process by recognising jesus as a prophet but then saying that mohammed was the last prophet that would come
 
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@all

There is room for everyone in this thread. :)

@muir is just as welcome to post his ideas and thoughts on religion, just as you are @just me at pointing out some ridiculous Christmas trends, as @wonkavision is about strongly defending his beliefs, and @Barnabas for describing my questions as foolish babbling.

Try not to be offended or take anything personally. Think of this more as a freedom of expression on a controversial topic. It's not about hate and/or invalidating one's beliefs. It's about understanding where one's beliefs come from, challenging them, accepting and respecting that everyone has their own opinion without trying to make anyone else accept your own beliefs.

I also advise that if a post gets under your skin, it is better to simply explain how you feel and/or just walk away. Don't argue who/what is right or wrong, because it will never go well. Please, try not to make it personal.

Maybe this makes me a bad person, but I am indifferent to people's beliefs. I stand by my 'prattling' (:P @Barnabas) or as I like to call it, sillyserious. I learned a few things that I did not know, which is cool (thanks to @wonkavision, @Cerce, and others that I can't remember now -- sorry). I think a lot of certain rituals and beliefs in life are 'stupid', for lack of a better word. And this may sound paradoxical, but I do not believe that those who do value and partake in those rituals and beliefs are somehow 'stupid' or wrong by association. I do not think you are wrong for believing in something I think is wrong. I just think you see something that I don't. It's a different way of thinking or seeing the world. I think that people who do not understand this are far too rigid in their thinking. It makes me think of Bush's statement of "if you're not with us, then you're against us". I beg to differ, there is an option C, Switzerland; the neutral option.

My 2 cents. Have a wonderful day! :)

in other words, smile and laugh
 
I've got a question for my fellow Christians, or any that aren't who would like to chime in with a bit of knowledge on the subject.

I've always wondered where it Biblicaly states that the Earth is of a certain age, and why it is that some believe that the earth is only a couple thousand years old (maybe couple hundred thousand). Should the passage of scripture stating that a thousand years is like a day to God, and a day is like a thousand years to God, be taken into account? If so, could that possibly point to the seven days of creation being seven thousand years? Or am I over thinking this?

Yeah, I'm playing a bit of a 'devil's advocate' on this one. I know what I believe, but I'm just wondering what others think of all this.

And, for clarification, I'd like to know the Biblical reasoning. I'm not interested in carbon dating or scientific evidence - I want to know what this means within my own faith, not within the broad spectrum of humanity as a whole.
 
In the beginning there was nothing...no-thing. The universe was unmanifested there was just infinate space, infinate possibility: Ain Soph. This state is unknowable to the human mind; all that can be said of this state is that IT IS. This state can be symbolically represented by a circle (zero) as this portrays that motion always returns into itself. It is often represented as a snake swallowing its tail known as the ouroborus:

images

The circle is sometimes broken as something is created and the one force is polarized into spirit and matter. Perhaps scientists might call this plasma and electrical force?

This creates a point which was symbolically represented as a dash or line from the top of the circle to the bottom of the circle forming the number 1. This cosmic center is called kether and it is the first manifestation from no-thing. It is a concentration of infinate light. Scientists might call this the singularity. Some refer to this manifestation as the logos as it will bring forth both spirit and matter.

Because the universe is holographic we are a microcosm of the macrocosmic universe, which is summarised in the hermetic principle 'as above so below'. Each one of us is a mini universe. Science already tells us we are made of star dust :). So for us kether is our crown chakra (sahasrara) which is divine will and the substratum of human consciousness

This is often called the monad and represented as follows:

tumblr_m34wa5Ykcv1qajm39o1_400.png


From this monad issues duality in the form of consciousness(chokmah or wisdom) and substance (Binah or understanding)

Chokmah is often personified as the father to aid human comprehension and binah as the mother. Everything in existence is an interplay between these two things which the chinese represent as follows:

yin-yang.jpg

Duality exists in many forms for example: male/female, cold/hot, positive/negative, light/dark and so on. When the two are in equilibrium they are called a child (the product of the two).

The father is represented as Y and the mother as H and they give rise to everything in creation; this process is represented as YHVH or Yod-He-Vav-He known as the tetragrammaton or Jehovah. So from consciousness and its vehicle substance ALL things are formed

The idea is formed in kether (the logos) and then the ideal form is created in chokmah. Using binah as a vehicle chokmah gives rise to the 7 emanations that create our tangible physical world. In the egyptian 'book of the dead' chokmah is thoth who conceives of the universe and then manifests it in substance

Binah, the mother is represented symbolically by the sea as water is plastic and can change into any form. From this substance all things are formed.

Beneath kether, chokmah and binah things become actualised over 7 further emanations and it is only from here that things can be conceived by the human mind.

These 7 further emanations, i suggest, are your 7 days of creation

I guess light is split into 7 rays. The bible depicts this as the rainbow in the flood story
 
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[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] - no disrespect, but I was looking for an answer within Christianity. As I said, I'm looking for a biblical reference.
 
@muir - no disrespect, but I was looking for an answer within Christianity. As I said, I'm looking for a biblical reference.

That's what i gave you

The stories outlined in the bible were depictions of what i'm talking about told in a form to help informed people grasp concepts or to conceal concepts from uninformed people; Jesus used the same technique with his parables

None of it was ever meant to be read literally

What i'm talking about is the information passed down amongst the elites or amongst those with the eyes to see. The elites jealously guarded many secrets because knowledge is power but the door to the esoteric meanings behind texts such as the bible has creaked open
 
I've got a question for my fellow Christians, or any that aren't who would like to chime in with a bit of knowledge on the subject.

I've always wondered where it Biblicaly states that the Earth is of a certain age, .


In my humble opinion, religiously inclined Christians who dwell on the scientific validity of their faith are blasphemous.

That said, in the beginning of scientific revolution scholars believed they could calculate the age of the earth by ascribing years to the generations listed in the book of genesis


Bishop James Ussher was able to use the ages of famous pre-flood personages in the Bible to estimate the number of years between creation and the flood. In 1650 CE, he published his book "Annales veteris testamenti, a prima mundi origine deducti" ("Annals of the Old Testament, deduced from the first origins of the world.") He calculated that God had created the Earth in 4004 BCE. A decade earlier, Dr. John Lightfoot, (1602 - 1675), an Anglican clergyman, rabbinical scholar, and Vice-Chancellor of the University of Cambridge had already arrived at an estimate of 4004-OCT-23 BCE, at 9 AM. (We assume that this was either Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) or Jerusalem tim
http://www.skeptically.org/oldtestament/id15.html
 
Oh, wow... That young? Wow. *He shakes his head*

Anyways, I wasn't talking about scientific validity. I was talking about Biblical validity.
 
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