Real Black?

I guess after talking with you for quite a while, I just don't get why you're seemingly so opposed against the notion, the idea, the hint of a minority (group) playing the victim.
 
Trifoilum said:
In that case, I doubt it's a binary between active suppression vs smooth sailing progress to success.
What you said is possible but that's going to happen between individuals and not communities.

Because America has a black president, and look what still happened during Obama's presidency. :|

There are also lots of other alternatives that can happen:
One can be actively impended and still succeeded (That, in fact, seems to be what happened with minorities in America in many ways).
One can succeed while bearing the cross of god knows how many discrimination (again, Ex-President Obama)
One can get into the fast lane due to other sort of privileges. (Money is the easiest one. But there are also title, power, gender)

Success in itself doesn't nullify the suppression and systemic injustice.

In fact I also question another thing; why is it that only active suppression matters? There are also subtler ways of suppression. Just because they are hard to point out, does not mean they cannot harm or deter someone.
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I think a large oppression factor comes from within the oppressed community (not an external oppression).

If everyone in your community implicitly and explicitly tells you that you cannot succeed because the system is rigged; and if anyone who does succeed is made a pariah and labled as being more with the oppressors (eg: he's a white black), there is an immense peer pressure (from actual peers in the community) for people to avoid trying to succeed.

I'm starting to think most oppression constructs are largely imaginary and bogus, with tenuous "evidence" for their existence.

The existence of disparity does not ipso facto identify the cause of the disparity. The assumption that external influences are the cause of disadvantage (or dis-priviledge) is an assumption.
 
Classist envy under the disguise of race.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
I think a large oppression factor comes from within the oppressed community (not an external oppression).

If everyone in your community implicitly and explicitly tells you that you cannot succeed because the system is rigged; and if anyone who does succeed is made a pariah and labled as being more with the oppressors (eg: he's a white black), there is an immense peer pressure (from actual peers in the community) for people to avoid trying to succeed.
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Oh.

Okay.

*shrugs*
I'm starting to think most oppression constructs are largely imaginary and bogus, with tenuous "evidence" for their existence.

The existence of disparity does not ipso facto identify the cause of the disparity. The assumption that external influences are the cause of disadvantage (or dis-priviledge) is an assumption.
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I'd argue that the opposite is true too,

but *shrugs* I guess you've made your mind, so have a nice day?
 
Trifoilum said:
Oh.

Okay.

*shrugs*

I'd argue that the opposite is true too,

but *shrugs* I guess you've made your mind, so have a nice day?
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Not that I've made my mind, except to think the explanations for disparities between demographic groups are not complete; and this limits how effective programs to "close the gap" can be.

Is it important that we claim that only people outside groups are responsible for problems? It seems like an incomplete picture, which can only promote an "us and them" ghetto/cult mentality.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Not that I've made my mind, except to think the explanations for disparities between demographic groups are not complete; and this limits how effective programs to "close the gap" can be.

Is it important that we claim that only people outside groups are responsible for problems? It seems like an incomplete picture, which can only promote an "us and them" ghetto/cult mentality.
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And claiming "external influences are the cause of disadvantage (or dis-priviledge)" aren't an incomplete picture? Won't lead into an us vs them mentality?
Minorities already bear the burnt of respectability politics nowadays, in America or otherwise. :|

I think it is important that we understand the feedback between the outside world and people's mentality and mindset inside the group.
That doesn't always mean 'being balanced', because things aren't always always balanced.
 
Trifoilum said:
And claiming "external influences are the cause of disadvantage (or dis-priviledge)" aren't an incomplete picture? Won't lead into an us vs them mentality?
Minorities already bear the burnt of respectability politics nowadays, in America or otherwise. :|

I think it is important that we understand the feedback between the outside world and people's mentality and mindset inside the group.
That doesn't always mean 'being balanced', because things aren't always always balanced.
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I'm a little cynical of the "oppressed minority" paradigm because that experiment has been run and there's no stellar results.

I'd be curious to see what would happen if cult-busters replaced student councillors: would people break out of one mentality and into a perception of being widely accepted/valued?
 
Flavus Aquila said:
I'm a little cynical of the "oppressed minority" paradigm because that experiment has been run and there's no stellar results.
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Source, if I may?

I'd be curious to see what would happen if cult-busters replaced student councillors: would people break out of one mentality and into a perception of being widely accepted/valued?
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Excuse me?
 
I WANT TO--

hmm.

I don't know which one I want more, watching and seeing ruji with a braided long hair, or having my own hair braided.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
1. The US.
Compare it to what goes on in Britain.
2. Cult busters. They break down suspicions about outsiders, to facilitate people being able to have more independence.
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1. How are the US different from the UK in that aspect, if I may ask further?

2. No, I don't think they are interchangeable. If anything, it'd be good to have BOTH.
 
Trifoilum said:
1. How are the US different from the UK in that aspect, if I may ask further?

2. No, I don't think they are interchangeable. If anything, it'd be good to have BOTH.
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In the UK, there's no real racial divides... just ideological and political divides. If you ever get a chance to visit, I think you'll be blown away by how race just isn't an issue... It's a completely different world from the US.

Western/Islamic division is prominent in the UK, but this is ideological, not racial.

I wonder if there are any UK members here, who have spent substantial amounts of time in the US. I'd like to get their insights into what the differences are.
 
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