[INFJ] Religion

Calling people names is not a defense. Plus, the examples you gave for why stupid people survive do not prove that we are rational, have nothing to do with the price of metal, and prove even further how irrational we are. People don't make rational decisions. Emotions, social norms, there are many things that drive our mind... look at markets. Since I see your age I won't engage any further with you. I make it a point not to intellectually masturbate on the internet and it would be inappropriate to do it in front of a teenager, anyway. I didn't realize you were only 18 and knowing that now, my response was inappropriate and I'm sorry. Had I known your age I would have given you the benefit.

Don't beat around the bush, my age doesn't have anything to do with this. I could be lying about it. You could as well. But that's beside the point. Point is; You can either choose to have an argument properly, or not.

Uh, yeah, we are. We make rational decisions. For instance; to reply to my post, you made a rational, (albeit ignorant) decision to click on the "reply" button and type your response.

Me: 1
You: 0

Also, if not for rationality, wouldn't humans have died out long ago?

Me: 2
You: -1

See any name calling in there? Didn't think so.

Do I need to explain it for you?

People don't make rational decisions.

Yes. They. Do. A rational decision is a sensible one. To put it in the most basic perspective I can; If someone had the option of touching an electric fence, knowing it would shock them, and they didn't, they just made a rational choice, did they not?


I thought someone your age would be wiser than this. (Assuming, you actually are 31.)
 
I choose not to argue at all. I don't care if you're lying or not, I don't argue on the internet with teens (or an older adult pretending to be a teen). Its over.
 
I was raised as a Lutheran. I didn't like the strictures against out-of-wedlock sex and dropped it, but now think that stricture is probably a fairly good idea. Unless you're willing to have a baby and raise it with someone I don't think you should be having sex with them. That might seem a tad harsh, but it's thinking of the long haul for the other person.

As far as religion goes, I like the idea of a personal God. It warms the universe up a bit and gives it meaning. It's hard to understand infinity and I don't like looking up at the stars at night and just thinking it's a bunch of rocks and exploding gas bubbles. If instead I see it as having the face of God, then I love it, and feel at home. I want the world to have meaning.

I rather like all religions even the Hindus (with their crummy caste system) and the Muslims (with their bizarre notion that a man can have four wives), and even the Wiccans, with all their baby-boiling and Tarot cards and orgiastic nature rituals. It's all better than just plain science, which offers no personal meaning to the world. My least favorite religion is communism. It sets everybody at odds with everybody else, and says that History moves by itself, and is inexorable. It turns history into a vengeful God that wants to constantly slaughter half the human race and reduces everything to something about the collective. Quite harsh and ridiculous.

I prefer a loving God that loves everyone. I also like to sing songs with everyone at church and shake hands after and shoot the breeze about the weather with the pastor.
 
[MENTION=4408]Auron[/MENTION]
I want to agree with most of what you have said. But a lot of people hold onto religion.

Is religion something they came to on their own. Do they ever question their beliefs or do they simply accept what they are told.

I am hoping to learn from someone that has questioned god and religion and has come to the conclusion there is a god or religion for themselves. My conclusions are a lot like yours and the historic nature makes a lot of sense for why religion came into existence, but there are adamant people and I find there isn't a lot of tolerance on either side. Those that believe for non believers and non believers for those that do.

I don't expect much participation for this topic because it may sort of come across like expecting people to justify themselves and they might not feel up to it.

I was not raised in a religious home at all.

My parents got divorced when I was around 5 years old and my mother married a man she met in Key West who was stationed there (my mom is from Key West, FL.). Mike (my step-dad) is a good man and treated us very well and my mother is a loving mother and did her best raising us.

As far as religion goes, though, we were a non-religious family. We did not go to church or pray or anything like that. As a matter of fact, my Uncle, who tried many times to get off of drugs, used to talk to some coconut headed thing to help break his addiction (part of Santeria, I think). I remember he had this coconut head in a closet-like thing with water (may have been vodka) and a cigar...he never could completely break his drug habit and died of hepatitis when he was 55 back on 2002.

Anyway, my grandmother was sort of a play-girl and sold calendars with naked women on them and stuff like that...overall, it was a pretty hedonistic way of life (not totally but leaning more in that direction), I guess. Please understand, I am not saying anyone was a "bad" person, because they were/are not, I am only trying to explain the very non-religious upbringing I had.

Anyway, around 14 or 15 years old I, for whatever reason, started to want to read the Bible so I asked my mom to get me one and see took one from a hotel (remember the Gideon's bible they leave in the hotels?).

I don't think I understood any of it but that is how it began...

I became a Christian around 15 years old and my step-dad thought I was crazy (I think, he mentioned something about sending me to a shrink but he may have been joking...I am not sure). Allot changed for me then. I quit cussing, chasing the girls hoping to get "lucky" and trying to act tough (I really wasn't and had only been in two fist-fights up to then (won one, lost one) but you had to put up the "front" of being tough), looking at Playboys/Penthouse and other stuff like that - normal stuff, it seemed to me, not being exposed to religion for the most part, at all, except for my mom telling me that God was everywhere one time (which I never forgot, interestingly enough).

I will not bore you with all the details but that is when I became a Christian and drastically changed the course I was on.

Have I ever questioned, since then, the existance of God? For me, no, not at all. I look around at the complexity of the cosmos and really wonder how people can say there is NO evidence of God (there is SOME - look at a simple chromosome, for crying out loud, or the delicate balance of nature or our solar system - it is just too perfect and "just right" for it to be a chance happening... But I have no deisire to debate that with anyone - if someone does not believe God exists, that is there right and I respect that). Another thing, for me, is that I have felt His presence too much, at times, and seen Him work so, for me, I KNOW God exists (this trascends the head and I know deep in the core of my being, if that makes sense).

Now, have I ever questioned God or things ascribed to Him? Of course, how else will I grow as a human being?

My journey has been long and, at times, ardous but it has been worth it so far.

One thing I have learned as I have gotten older (I am 47 right now), is that there is so much that we do not know...there is soo much mystery out there that I cannot even fathom it.

When I was younger, I thought I had all the answer, but now that I am middle-aged and had my fair share of the bumps and bruises that life brings all of us, I have come to realize just how much I DON'T know...before, I have all the standard, pat answers...now, however, I have many more questions than answers and, for me, I am content with that (I hope this makes some sense).

I hope this helped answer your question some. Take Care.
 
I was raised Catholic, and am now an atheist. From an early age I had problems with Catholic/Christian doctrine, but I made a good effort to "make it work." I was extremely involved in my church, with everything I could volunteer for. But, one can only push away reality for so long. The funny thing is that the OP assumes that every infj "became religious" as if religion is integral to the infj type.
 
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