Rioting: does it work?

[SpecialEdition]

Trump is rallying support to declare martial law. This isn't a fantasy, its a reality. If you don't believe this is a problem, then I don't know what to say.

Of course he is and of course it should be a concern. But should people stop fighting for what is right because they're scare Trump will have another tantrum?

I mean, there had to be a civil war just to put a stop to slavery and yet all this time later there is still systemic racism.

I think most people seeing the police and military deployed understand there is something major at risk. There's a pandemic. Unemployment rates are sky high. People are suffering at the hands of a broken system and the USA is more polarized than ever.

Of course Martial Law is a risk. Fighting for something on this scale exposes a lot of weaknesses and flaws and the world is watching.

So then what?

 

[mintoots]

Simple. If you're going to riot, go after The Pentagon, The Federal Reserve, The FBI and Wall Street. Hurt the people that are actually responsible for structural inequality, don't destroy the cities you live in.

If you're not going to go after power itself, stop rioting all together. It will undermine there BLM movement, and maybe even rally enough support for Trump to declare martial law.

Wall street is more like it. Find that one seat of power and pull out the entire deck of cards.

Well, people already tried to wipe out The Pentagon on 9/11 so I guess your suggestion to do that is out. People are already peacefully protesting all over the country, so no issues there. The riots are such a small part of what's happening.

You've already got Trump gassing people out of Lafayette Park so he can do a photo op with a Bible in front of Church. The violence is already being perpetrated by the police and the government. He's bringing the violence TO people. I think some shattered glass in storefronts and some looted shoes are the absolute least of the issues we are seeing during all of this.

I get that you think if people aren't perfectly well behaved and falling in line that somehow there are already going to be dire consequences, but people are already living through some pretty terrible things.

Like I said, people have to start somewhere. You can't control for the individuals that show up in their black hoodies and backpacks throwing molotov cocktails because they get off on it. Those are the people you should be appealing to if the riots are your concern. Or maybe the police that are abusing their power. Up to you which is the problem that needs to be addressed first.

The destruction of property creates a momentum towards more damage. It's not a good start.

This movement needs a unified direction. The diversity of America is causing it to disintegrate. The microculture is causing separatism. For this to work, a considerable majority of the population has to stand behind one common cause. That cause has to be named. That cause has to be led.

Trump is rallying support to declare martial law. This isn't a fantasy, its a reality. If you don't believe this is a problem, then I don't know what to say.

With a ruthless man like trump behind the reigns of a martial law, prepare for more lives lost. If this happens, America will be seeing darker ages to come and even the 2022 elections might never happen peacefully.

The people leading these riots should go to the next person with enough leverage to take Trump down. The enemy of the enemy should be the friend. It's tactical. Raise the violence higher and only more lives will be lost. Whatever good that would come out of it is definitely paid for at a very high price.

Calibrate the movement towards a specific target.

 

[SpecialEdition]

The destruction of property creates a momentum towards more damage. It's not a good start.

But it's what people DO. I'm not excusing the behaviour but we have to start understanding that people showing up to cause problems is part of what happens when people gather together for a cause. I don't like it any better than anyone else but I also understand there are ALWAYS going to be bad actors with anything. I don't know why they do it. I don't know what they think the consequence is going to be. I've seen videos of them getting caught and how hard they fight to run away. So how does a message get sent that their behaviour isn't welcome or tolerated? I don't have that answer. But there are enough peaceful protests out there that still end in violence with the police because it seems the police just can't help themselves and don't want to. It's a clusterfuck.

This movement needs a unified direction. The diversity of America is causing it to disintegrate. The microculture is causing separatism. For this to work, a considerable majority of the population has to stand behind one common cause. That cause has to be named. That cause has to be led.

The cause has been named, don't you think? The people have to lead it. We have to remember that the USA has been deeply divided on a whole host of issues and it cannot stop. I knew it wasn't going to stop when those officers were charged and arrested. It won't stop because Trump tear gassed his own people. It won't stop because they don't have a lot of leaders without scandal or corruption. There was Bernie Sanders and somehow people still chose Biden over him because.... "socialism?" I don't know. So there another flaw is exposed.

At the end of the day all the video and information coming out is showing people that on the most basic level there is a massive issue. In my opinion that's where it starts. You follow the money. You follow the chain of abuse. Too many people can't conceptualize the problem with Wall Street, with Lobbying, with the low minimum wage, with the laws in place to keep people down, with the lack of separation between Church and State, with the deep web of corruption on BOTH sides, etc. But they have to start somewhere and this is where they're starting.

With a ruthless man like trump behind the reigns of a martial law, prepare for more lives lost. If this happens, America will be seeing darker ages to come and even the 2022 elections might never happen peacefully.

The people leading these riots should go to the next person with enough leverage to take Trump down. The enemy of the enemy should be the friend. It's tactical. Raise the violence higher and only more lives will be lost. Whatever good that would come out of it is definitely paid for at a very high price.

Calibrate the movement towards a specific target.

The violence against people has already been and has always been happening against people. Now it's being filmed. Sending troops off to wars they have no business being in. Executing innocent people. People dying from lack of appropriate healthcare. Poverty. Inequality and hatefulness. There is already widespread violence happening and enough people haven't fully realized it yet, but I think they are now. I don't expect the violence will stop and when you have someone weak like Trump in power that's going to escalate really quickly.

Also, I don't think there ARE people leading the riots. There are people leading and organizing peaceful protests. Rioting is a whole separate thing and I think we have to be careful to make that distinction here.

 

[David54]

the system doesn't care about peaceful protest. for instance, Colin Kapernick knelt to protest what, killing of black men by the police. what happened? the NFL black balled him and black men continued being killed by the police. .burn down a few buildings, ,riot in the streets. . now the NFL is all about doing something to stop the killing of blacks by the police. the police have become an occupying force, something to fear. . now we are having conversations about defunding them. .in Portland, they have been removed from schools and the transit system. . why. . the black city council person brought it to the mayor as a way to send the message that government is listening. . why>. .the police are out numbered and government has to respond to the growing cries of now. . or cities will continue to burn. .
it is unfortunate that power does not listen to peaceful protest of the system. . but they dont, they act like trump and try to use force to stop it, it isn't until they realize they can't that change happens. .

 

[Milktoast Bandit]

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable...

 

[acd]

the system doesn't care about peaceful protest. for instance, Colin Kapernick knelt to protest what, killing of black men by the police. what happened? the NFL black balled him and black men continued being killed by the police. .burn down a few buildings, ,riot in the streets. . now the NFL is all about doing something to stop the killing of blacks by the police. the police have become an occupying force, something to fear. . now we are having conversations about defunding them. .in Portland, they have been removed from schools and the transit system. . why. . the black city council person brought it to the mayor as a way to send the message that government is listening. . why>. .the police are out numbered and government has to respond to the growing cries of now. . or cities will continue to burn. .
it is unfortunate that power does not listen to peaceful protest of the system. . but they dont, they act like trump and try to use force to stop it, it isn't until they realize they can't that change happens. .

Yep! I just heard today that Roger Goodell, NFL Commissioner, has said the NFL was wrong for not taking players protests seriously. In fact, players were threatened with punishment for speaking out. Maybe because we are seeing:

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable...

That and also now polls show majority of Americans sympathize with the protestors. The NFL is first a business and doesn't want to be on the wrong side of public opinion.

 

[mintoots]

The cause has been named, don't you think? The people have to lead it

I see that. I understand the spirit of the cause but how is change implemented at such a massive scale without a tangible enumeration of what is or not accepted and without a venue for negotiation? What I see here are years of oppression, lopsided power at the governance level, and despair enacted. It's dystopic.

An entire history of suffering does not make behaviors of violence justified. I second your point there.

Also, I don't think there ARE people leading the riots. There are people leading and organizing peaceful protests.

There are vengeful teens for sure but these are outliers. Let's agree to make that distinction. This thread had been about riots, specifically acts of violence that occur within it and that's what I'm fundamentally against.

As to protests, we have to find that leadership and organize them, and protect them. What I meant when I said a calibrated effort is necessary is that despite the leaderships of these efforts not being pointed out (to protect them from being eliminated), the points, laws, shady legal cases, unjust protectionism, should all be pointed out and one by one plucked out and removed against. This is a hostage situation. Unless the heist is calibrated, all there would be is a point in history where lives are lost and no change effected.

it is unfortunate that power does not listen to peaceful protest of the system. . but they dont, they act like trump and try to use force to stop it, it isn't until they realize they can't that change happens. .

Power will listen when grabbed by the balls and at the throat but it has to be precise. Peaceful protests can still do that. That case of the bridge where people laid on it is a good example. Governance brutality faced with passive determination, plus the whole world watching is a bold, peaceful, but effective move. I am thinking about something to this effect.

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable...

Sigh. God bless America.

 

[David54]

Power will listen when grabbed by the balls and at the throat but it has to be precise. Peaceful protests can still do that. That case of the bridge where people laid on it is a good example. Governance brutality faced with passive determination, plus the whole world watching is a bold, peaceful, but effective move. I am thinking about something to this effect.

make no mistake. . change is happening in Portland because we have a mayor and councilwoman that get it and are acting. . they are also marching

 

[mintoots]

make no mistake. . change is happening in Portland because we have a mayor and councilwoman that get it and are acting. . they are also marching

That's good. That's really good. The world should know more about these too.

 

[SpecialEdition]

The government is listening. People want to get reelected. So if it starts at local government, then it's something. We can't ignore that there is progress being made and that there will always be more that needs to be made in the future.

At the end of the day, I'm not American. I can only make observations. I pay attention because my career is based heavily on Canada's relationship to the USA but my opinions about what American citizens should and shouldn't do only mean so much because I have not lived in their shoes.

My opinion is that if it takes having a small percentage of riots alongside massive peaceful protests, then that's what it takes.

 

[mintoots]

In total, I think this is a fight against capitalists sitting in the government. As the church has been separated from the state, so should capitalists be separated from the state. Hah. Putin must he scoffing.

 

[pzl2lxie81mc]

Yep! I just heard today that Roger Goodell, NFL Commissioner, has said the NFL was wrong for not taking players protests seriously. In fact, players were threatened with punishment for speaking out. Maybe because we are seeing:



That and also now polls show majority of Americans sympathize with the protestors. The NFL is first a business and doesn't want to be on the wrong side of public opinion.

Plus, it takes time for some beliefs to change, especially if it means losing something that touches on the survival of the people in power.

Colin Kapaernick is a champ in ways no Super Bowl win can ever make him. And maybe the lesson here, and for future generations, is it’s better not to play the game.