Samsara - What is Death and Rebirth?

I liked to add if I can, that if I was wrong along with all other Buddhists concerning existence and self, then I hope that Cornerstones reply and concept is correct, as it sounds a very beautiful concept indeed, maybe awareness is union with God or the Universe.
What ever the case maybe I am very impressed with everyone's ideas, beliefs and concepts, its nice to know that people still can think outside of the box. Cool!
 
Just gonna jump in here.
Just curious, as one in the medical field...and I don't know if anyone can relate to this or not....if anyone has experienced anything similar?
I think most medical people who have done it for a while can tell you that there comes a point where you can actually see the "soul" "life-force" or "consciousness" when it leaves the body. Not like a ghost floating away...but there is a moment if you look close enough...and even if that person's body is being kept alive by machines, that part of them....what makes them alive, what makes them a person....disappears. I have done CPR on someone without a heart beat for an hour and kept going and they lived....and I have done CPR on someone for 10 mins. when the doctor calls the time of death....the difference seemed all to plain too those of us in the room who have been at it for some time. Of course, there are other contributing factors when deciding the time of death and how long CRP is administered...but there is an intuitive factor in regards to the the human "soul" that comes into play as well.
 
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Just gonna jump in here.
Just curious, as one in the medical field...and I don't know if anyone can relate to this or not....if anyone has experienced anything similar?
I think most medical people who have done it for a while can tell you that there comes a point where you can actually see the "soul" "life-force" or "consciousness" when it leaves the body. Not like a ghost floating away...but there is a moment if you look close enough...and even if that person's body is being kept alive by machines, that part of them....what makes them alive, what makes them a person....disappears. I have done CPR on someone without a heart beat for an hour and kept going and they lived....and I have done CPR on someone for 10 mins. when the doctor calls the time of death....the difference seemed all to plain too those of us in the room who have been at it for some time. Of course, there are other contributing factors when deciding the time of death and how long CRP is administered...but there is an intuitive factor in regards to the human "soul" that comes into play as well.
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I find that fascinating Devil, I have heard of similar things concerning certain relatives of mine who died, where my parents described the same experience as you have shared.
I say what I have heard, as I have never witnessed someone passing away myself although I've came close on occasions.
Perhaps its some kind of energy that our Soul (or for us Buddhists) Mind essence- awareness is derived or is based from that is part of the fabric of existence and the physical universe that we aren't aware of as yet. So when the person truly dies then the soul or ones awareness is no longer attached to the physical body and so just like the opposite of being born, we return back to the source from where we once has come from, or perhaps our awareness is recycled for want of a better expression other than reincarnation.
Although I would prefer reincarnation over recycling.
So thanks for sharing that Devil, as it sure is an interesting point to think about and very poignant too.
 
Cornerstone said:
Thanks. It was quite late when I wrote that so please excuse any slight stumbling blocks in the flow due to my grammar.
The point I also wanted to make was that the unconscious experience is not inferior - conversely, it is a noble undertaking.
The idea of consent is so important as it is all consensual and actually desired when we are in full knowledge of ourselves.

But thank you for the lovely rep comment and I'm glad we're on roughly the same wavelength.

Do you think many others have then? I see a difference between the new consciousness of Jeshua and the events of Pentecost.
It feels to me that one can become possessed by the Holy Spirit temporarily, informing the rest of one's days (and beyond).
Jeshua feels different in that he sacrificed his 'I-ness' totally to become the Holy Spirit in material form. If that makes sense to you.

I would love to chat more with you again though and I am in a MUCH better place where Spirituality is concerned. I'm feeling it integrate more smoothly.
Click to expand...

Theres nothing to excuse! It was wonderful, especaily how beautifully you captured consent, as that is the esssence of who we are, the free and open nature of All That Is. I do, I totally love you! And we are One. We are All That IS too, lol.

I know what you mean about Jeshua, and i think others have also made that choice- Buddha is another very famous avatar. There are also many 'ascended masters' that you can find information on. There have been several gurus in India, Sai Baba for examble. There have been people from many different cultures and religious backgrounds. Ultimately all ways to lead to the One, as long as one doesnt confuse the finger pointing to the sun as the sun itself and is genuinely motivated to make that choice.

in terms of sacrificing the 'I' ness, I feel that Jesus was special in the sense that he was a creation that we all chose for a very specific purpose. We chose, He chose, to come to a particular point in space and time to embody and model the Christ Consciousness for all of us that are touched by Western history and Christian culture. The prophesy and anticipation before his arrival served to create a group consciousness of his presence, and we collectively manifested his life and presence in our world. He was also involved in a very political time, where his actions were felt and noted by many different cultures, religions and nations. He was schooled in esoteric Jewish knowledge and he chose to share this knowledge and challenge the religious and political establishment with His Truth. He was also joined by other powerful avatars in His story, such as John The Baptist, Mother Mary, Mary Magdalene and Paul. Together, a great epic chapter of human consiousness was imagined, created and experienced.

We'll definately chat more soon to share our travels
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
Cool. I don't think individuality is an illusion though. Consciousness i believe, is individual. The rest, your genes, your material body, your feelings, your body chemicals, and the spiritual energies that are part of you, i tend to believe are not individual, as in they don't necessarily pass on to your next life(assuming there is one).
While "I" as most people perceive themselves might be an illusion, there is a core consciousness which i believe to be the individual entity which is trying to define itself in the first place.
Click to expand...

Individuality is real, yes. It isn't said that one isn't an individual.

This is speaking of what you think comprises you and makes you individual - or basically people are individual but they think they are individual for the wrong reasons.
 
sprinkles said:
Individuality is real, yes. It isn't said that one isn't an individual.

This is speaking of what you think comprises you and makes you individual - or basically people are individual but they think they are individual for the wrong reasons.
Click to expand...

Cool beans bro.
 
[video=youtube_share;1qMD1FHflFM]http://youtu.be/1qMD1FHflFM[/video] [MENTION=6917]sprinkles[/MENTION]
Here is my contribution to this thread (actually I was listening to this in the car last night and thought of you might get a kick out of it)
 
Skarekrow said:
Here is my contribution to this thread (actually I was listening to this in the car last night and thought of you might get a kick out of it)
Click to expand...

Hehe I always welcome music. :D

[video=youtube;LZ-hZ83GhJ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ-hZ83GhJ8[/video]
 
sprinkles said:
Hehe I always welcome music. :D

[video=youtube;LZ-hZ83GhJ8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ-hZ83GhJ8[/video]
Click to expand...
That is pretty damn awesome!
 
Those guys have some intense hat action going on! You can tell they have been into some serious head spaces.....you know...the kind of thing that happens when people meditate for years in the rarified air of the himilayan mountains!

The yellow caps as i understand it are the lunar current and their hats are kinda crescent shaped, so i guess that makes sense

The buddhists seem to stress the importance of taming the mind as the mind is the source of all

They use meditation as a tool to observe the mind and the thoughts that come and go through it like waves. This allows a greater insight into and overtime an understanding of our complexes, where our feelings come from, where our thoughts and actions come from and how we can then try to use that understanding in our life to be less of an asshole to the people around us

How we feel seems to affect how we think and how we act and speak

The process then seems to be one of trying to understand better why we feel certain things in order to tame the mind so that we do and say the right things. Easy to say but much harder to do. Very easy in the rush of life for the ego to feel challenged and react

So if we can actually change the way we perceive ourselves and others for example by understanding motivations and how cause and effect works to become more compassionate then we really are changing/transforming spiritually. This could be described symbolically as a constant process of death and rebirth as our perceptions are born into a new reality

Concerning actual reincarnation i like what alan watts said: 'the universe is experiencing itself through us'. Everything and everyone is an expression of big mind; when we relate to things we are in small mind, but small mind and big mind are really both the same and through a quietening of small mind it is possible to merge with big mind.
 
Bikerdelic said:
I liked to add if I can, that if I was wrong along with all other Buddhists concerning existence and self, then I hope that Cornerstones reply and concept is correct, as it sounds a very beautiful concept indeed, maybe awareness is union with God or the Universe.
What ever the case maybe I am very impressed with everyone's ideas, beliefs and concepts, its nice to know that people still can think outside of the box. Cool!
Click to expand...

I don't understand the Buddhist view enough to say that my interpretation necessarily replaces it.
If how I have expressed my understanding is true in a sense, there will be much more to it and some of that may be covered by Buddhism and other doctrines.
I am just more practical and realise that I am perhaps more of a freelance Spirit and that Spirituality, when entered into earnestly, becomes self-evident quickly.
If I have need for ritual or joining a Spiritual collective it would be because it is pertinent for what I am attempting to accomplish; not for security purposes.
 
Buddhists don't actually have to explain reincarnation since there is no self (anatta) to reincarnate. There's just a collection of thoughts, experiences, ideals... attachments that we hold on to. If you remove the attachment, you remove the self and reincarnation is a non-issue.

At least that's the Zen teaching my teachers have taught. I think the confusion comes with the Tibetan tradition more so, where you have hundreds of years of tribal culture with a splash of Buddhism added after the fact. Trying to separate the tribal traditions from the Buddhist teachings creates a very sticky web.
 
Lerxst said:
Buddhists don't actually have to explain reincarnation since there is no self (anatta) to reincarnate. There's just a collection of thoughts, experiences, ideals... attachments that we hold on to. If you remove the attachment, you remove the self and reincarnation is a non-issue.

At least that's the Zen teaching my teachers have taught. I think the confusion comes with the Tibetan tradition more so, where you have hundreds of years of tribal culture with a splash of Buddhism added after the fact. Trying to separate the tribal traditions from the Buddhist teachings creates a very sticky web.
Click to expand...

I only skimmed through this cause tl;dr
but I like the question so I'm going to resurrect it if I can...

there are souls and spirits.

souls are low and baseless as they sound
spirits are lifted.

the physical plane we are in is a place of tests... it tests our soul (think Dante's Inferno)

we wander around with no memory of who we are or what we are supposed to do. People get attached to food (gluttony), sex, drugs, TV, cars things, stuff, oh yeah and the worst offender money... when you die your soul separates from your body. However, if you still want to eat, or d
Lerxst said:
Buddhists don't actually have to explain reincarnation since there is no self (anatta) to reincarnate. There's just a collection of thoughts, experiences, ideals... attachments that we hold on to. If you remove the attachment, you remove the self and reincarnation is a non-issue.

At least that's the Zen teaching my teachers have taught. I think the confusion comes with the Tibetan tradition more so, where you have hundreds of years of tribal culture with a splash of Buddhism added after the fact. Trying to separate the tribal traditions from the Buddhist teachings creates a very sticky web.
Click to expand...

would like to resurrect this thread cause ...awesome most basic question ever and the thread is 4ish years old (and stupid tablet crashed half way through last post)

You have souls and spirits well what is the difference:

souls are lowly and baseless just like it sounds... we are dropped off on this earth and we know nothing memories wiped clean, but we are here for a purpose and we have to figure out what that is.

The problem is there are many pitfalls waiting for us to screw up. (see dante's inferno) Demons waiting to trap us with lust, gluttony, things and stuff... the latest i-phone, new car, money, sex, (ever notice whenever you get a gf many hot woman decide they like you and tempt you?) These things distract you dirty your soul so you can't hear the oneness of all (or God or the supreme counciousness, your over self etc). God can't lead you if you can't hear him. when you die your becomes trapped close to earth pining for your lost things. These are ghosts attached to earth by the things they lust after. Lost souls. They are born again to relive life until the get it right. Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life. The way to heaven, what is the way to heaven?

The seed of life and the tree of life of sacred geometry is the way (see spirit science on you tube *awesome*)

long story short you have to give up the things you love about this planet. Our give up the attachment to things, give up smoking, drinking, fapping, sex (except for creation), good food in excess (see fasting) *side note: fasting shows you how attached to food you are. When you give up these things you clean your temple and God moves in... and you can hear him if you listen closely in meditation. So, you have to go through hell (Dante's inferno) to come out to heaven on the other side. Buddhist monks do this in many ways , cannot touch women, cannot touch money or eat food not given to them.

You can skip all your future painful lives trying to lesson or you can be like a monk and learn the lesson now. Very few will follow this advice... There is a reason why only 144000 will be with Christ at the end times... Christians can't even keep the sabbath sacred ... last day of the week is Saturday not Sunday.... check any calendar.

Sorry tangent...

Further, you should not cut your hair (these are advanced lessons), your hair are like whiskers of a cat and help your body. Cutting your hair means your a slave... look it up mongols cut the hair of Chinese, native trackers can't track without their hair....

Don't spill the sacred water (don't jerk off) because your messing with power of creation spilling a bit of heaven very time defiling it.

Respect women tip your hat in respect because the are ALL the holy grail which holds the sacred waters of creation.

This is HARD it is supposed to be.... are you worthy for heaven?

You now know the sacred path to life ever lasting and how to be reborn into heaven from soul to uplifting holy spirit...

Let's see...

E.G.
 
Emanuel Goldstein said:
I only skimmed through this cause tl;dr
but I like the question so I'm going to resurrect it if I can...

there are souls and spirits.

souls are low and baseless as they sound
spirits are lifted.

the physical plane we are in is a place of tests... it tests our soul (think Dante's Inferno)

we wander around with no memory of who we are or what we are supposed to do. People get attached to food (gluttony), sex, drugs, TV, cars things, stuff, oh yeah and the worst offender money... when you die your soul separates from your body. However, if you still want to eat, or d


would like to resurrect this thread cause ...awesome most basic question ever and the thread is 4ish years old (and stupid tablet crashed half way through last post)

You have souls and spirits well what is the difference:

souls are lowly and baseless just like it sounds... we are dropped off on this earth and we know nothing memories wiped clean, but we are here for a purpose and we have to figure out what that is.

The problem is there are many pitfalls waiting for us to screw up. (see dante's inferno) Demons waiting to trap us with lust, gluttony, things and stuff... the latest i-phone, new car, money, sex, (ever notice whenever you get a gf many hot woman decide they like you and tempt you?) These things distract you dirty your soul so you can't hear the oneness of all (or God or the supreme counciousness, your over self etc). God can't lead you if you can't hear him. when you die your becomes trapped close to earth pining for your lost things. These are ghosts attached to earth by the things they lust after. Lost souls. They are born again to relive life until the get it right. Jesus said I am the way, the truth and the life. The way to heaven, what is the way to heaven?

The seed of life and the tree of life of sacred geometry is the way (see spirit science on you tube *awesome*)

long story short you have to give up the things you love about this planet. Our give up the attachment to things, give up smoking, drinking, fapping, sex (except for creation), good food in excess (see fasting) *side note: fasting shows you how attached to food you are. When you give up these things you clean your temple and God moves in... and you can hear him if you listen closely in meditation. So, you have to go through hell (Dante's inferno) to come out to heaven on the other side. Buddhist monks do this in many ways , cannot touch women, cannot touch money or eat food not given to them.

You can skip all your future painful lives trying to lesson or you can be like a monk and learn the lesson now. Very few will follow this advice... There is a reason why only 144000 will be with Christ at the end times... Christians can't even keep the sabbath sacred ... last day of the week is Saturday not Sunday.... check any calendar.

Sorry tangent...

Further, you should not cut your hair (these are advanced lessons), your hair are like whiskers of a cat and help your body. Cutting your hair means your a slave... look it up mongols cut the hair of Chinese, native trackers can't track without their hair....

Don't spill the sacred water (don't jerk off) because your messing with power of creation spilling a bit of heaven very time defiling it.

Respect women tip your hat in respect because the are ALL the holy grail which holds the sacred waters of creation.

This is HARD it is supposed to be.... are you worthy for heaven?

You now know the sacred path to life ever lasting and how to be reborn into heaven from soul to uplifting holy spirit...

Let's see...

E.G.
Click to expand...
poke
 
I haven't had any spiritual experiences. If I did, I would presume that I had a mental disorder or damaged senses.

If what I'm seeing doesn't make logical sense then there is something abnormal about what I am seeing or the apparatus with which I use to process the world (my eyes, brain, etc).
 
Pin said:
I haven't had any spiritual experiences. If I did, I would presume that I had a mental disorder or damaged senses.
Click to expand...

Consider for a moment the possibility that if you were to have one, it would be real enough for you to question whether what occurred was any sort of psychosis.
 
Pin said:
I haven't had any spiritual experiences. If I did, I would presume that I had a mental disorder or damaged senses.

If what I'm seeing doesn't make logical sense then there is something abnormal about what I am seeing or the apparatus with which I use to process the world (my eyes, brain, etc).
Click to expand...

And what if there were other witnesses to this abnormal function of “reality”?
I have three instances where witnesses were with me and something has moved or flown (crash) across the room...those are the ones with witnesses, but there are more.
I would probably be just as skeptical as the next person, and I have a very difficult time already when it comes to matters of faith and how I came to find my own, so I would be ripe to dismiss these things actually, but the experiences I’ve had I cannot just dismiss as my senses screwing up somehow.
To think that - given consideration to my experiences (of which you are not aware, so it’s subjective I know) I cannot just dismiss these instances as a trick of the eye or brain - as much as I may have wanted to at the time.
 
Lerxst said:
Buddhists don't actually have to explain reincarnation since there is no self (anatta) to reincarnate. There's just a collection of thoughts, experiences, ideals... attachments that we hold on to. If you remove the attachment, you remove the self and reincarnation is a non-issue.

At least that's the Zen teaching my teachers have taught. I think the confusion comes with the Tibetan tradition more so, where you have hundreds of years of tribal culture with a splash of Buddhism added after the fact. Trying to separate the tribal traditions from the Buddhist teachings creates a very sticky web.
Click to expand...

From my perspective (Thai Buddhism) they believe that people reincarnate because they have not yet learned to let it go. When they learn... they go to heaven having attained true happiness.

"You can't take it with you? Why would you want too?"
 
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