Satya's fondness of religion continues...

Satya said:
It is difficult when it is so often used as a tool of oppression. Am I not entitled to the same wisdom of repugnance towards religion that you claim that others are entitled towards homosexuality, race, etc. That is ultimately what you mean by "natural instincts" right?

Okay, if you want a broad definition of the origins of homophobia, then the wisdom of repugnance is it. But religion has been built on wisdom of repugnance. Religion finds its foundations in wisdom of repugnance. The two are pretty much one in the same. They both believe that great, divinely inspired wisdom can gleaned from the emotion of revulsion. Yes, this "instinct" keeps most humans from having sex with their own family members, eating other humans, desecrating corpses, and consuming their own fecal matter, but all those acts have rational arguments that can be made against them. There is no such rational argument to made against homosexuals.
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First of all, there are many denominations of Christianity that accept homosexuals, and some that even support gay marriage. According to the same bible that your afore mentioned idiots claim to follow, God loves everyone, which includes homosexuals. Many of the pagan religions (as in the ones that self identify as pagan) are also open to homosexuality, and if I'm not mistaken so does Buddhism. Religion as a concept isn't against homosexuality, even if certain religions are. Your excuse for hating religion because religion hates you is not valid. Sorry.

Religion was not founded on the wisdom of repugnance. Even if you don't believe it was divinely inspired, religion (at least the major world religions that have proven themselves over the centuries to have staying power in civilization) is clearly rooted in ethics and morality. And that's where tolerance comes in, the same tolerance that some of the irrational people that you love to crucify are missing. You're blaming religion for the actions of idiots.

When you spin out on religion like this, you just appear to be bitter and intolerant. You're better than that.
 
Nobleheart said:
First of all, there are many denominations of Christianity that accept homosexuals, and some that even support gay marriage. According to the same bible that your afore mentioned idiots claim to follow, God loves everyone, which includes homosexuals. Many of the pagan religions (as in the ones that self identify as pagan) are also open to homosexuality, and if I'm not mistaken so does Buddhism. Religion as a concept isn't against homosexuality, even if certain religions are. Your excuse for hating religion because religion hates you is not valid. Sorry.

Religion was not founded on the wisdom of repugnance. Even if you don't believe it was divinely inspired, religion (at least the major world religions that have proven themselves over the centuries to have staying power in civilization) is clearly rooted in ethics and morality. And that's where tolerance comes in, the same tolerance that some of the irrational people that you love to crucify are missing. You're blaming religion for the actions of idiots.

When you spin out on religion like this, you just appear to be bitter and intolerant. You're better than that.
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Meh, so many Christians so unlike their Christ.

Fine, I won't blame religion for the irrationality of its followers.

However, I will hold people accountable for their morality and they can hold me accountable for mine. And when it comes to our respective moralities we can distinguish those who are the cowards who hide behind empty emotional rhetoric from those who stand firmly behind facts and sound reasoning. I am sick of the intellectual cowardice of those who can't even base their own morality on little more than irrational emotions like revulsion and hate. I'm sick of how they proclaim the religious writings of men who were just like them as "the divine edict of God" so that they don't feel like they have to justify their morality with reason or facts.
 
Satya said:
Meh, so many Christians so unlike their Christ.
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On this we very much agree.

Satya said:
Fine, I won't blame religion for the irrationality of its followers.

However, I will hold people accountable for their morality and they can hold me accountable for mine. And when it comes to our respective moralities we can distinguish those who are the cowards who hide behind empty emotional rhetoric from those who stand firmly behind facts and sound reasoning. I am sick of the intellectual cowardice of those who can't even base their own morality on little more than irrational emotions like revulsion and hate. I'm sick of how they proclaim the religious writings of men who were just like them as "the divine edict of God" so that they don't feel like they have to justify their morality with reason or facts.
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Keep in mind that the interpretation of the writings is usually not in alignment with the original intention of the writing, especially when interpreted by idiots with agendas.
 
Fact: some people will not ever tolerate gays. Blame it on religion, then wash it all away with how people view morality so differently. Slip in a blackeye on "so many" Christians for being so unChristlike and what do you have? Reason? So much reason with so many unreasonable people.

Some folk have strong feelings and cannot/will not attempt to try and explain why they have them. Some folk would rather sit by and watch others have at it while they stay in their safety zone. To each his own.

Don't ya just hate it when people can't accept you for the way you are?

I always heard it was alright to stand up above the BS unless you were standing on someone else. Some folk will knock everyone in their way down to reach the top, when they are really climbing down the ladder the whole while.

Trying to justify oneself? Tell us of your good works in meekness of spirit....that may be a different thread, though very short.
 
Satya said:
You are wrong. Your other examples are simply incomparable. The fact of the matter is that all prejudice towards gays can ultimately be reduced down into religious arguments. Religion can be generalized in this fashion because it is and only is religion that makes homosexuality an issue.

Find me one antigay atheist.
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Satya said:
Bullshit. There is no evidence that people are born homophobic. They are socialized to be that way. And what is the source of that socialization? Religion.

But hey, it is easy to prove me wrong. Find some anti gay atheists out there. And no, I don't mean atheists who don't support gay marriage, but atheists who are like FA and think the practice of homosexuality is "stupid" and worth fighting on moral grounds.
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I just thought this didnt seem to "flow" lol. Clairify please.
 
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just me said:
Trying to justify oneself? Tell us of your good works in meekness of spirit....that may be a different thread, though very short.
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It's funny that it is when I'm conceding that you try to make an insult. Your true colors shine through quite brilliantly. I'm very proud of my life up to this point. If you wish to judge me for not being as high and mighty as you see yourself, then let us see your thread.
 
Christianity is one seriously misunderstood religion....and Christians are some of the biggest offenders in this regard. Yes, "so many Christians ARE unlike their Christ." The ones who strive to be like him are seldom written about or portrayed in any kind of public forum though. And being like Jesus means that it wouldn't be any other way.

Irrationality is not exclusive to practioners of religion though. Anyone who is human is guilty. To be completely rational would mean not believing in love.
 
Satya said:
You are wrong. Your other examples are simply incomparable. The fact of the matter is that all prejudice towards gays can ultimately be reduced down into religious arguments. Religion can be generalized in this fashion because it is and only is religion that makes homosexuality an issue.

Find me one antigay atheist.
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My cousin in law.
 
No, reason is my religion. Unfortunately, religion is sorely lacking in it. And yes, I'm offended by the irrational.
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Cliche much? It seems fairly unreasonable to me to find as many of the most despicable examples as you can and then to paint "religion" with that broad brush. If you want to legitimately discredit something, you have to address its best argument, not set up strawmen by taking the stupidest fringe features and portraying them as representative of the whole.
 
Jack said:
Cliche much? It seems fairly unreasonable to me to find as many of the most despicable examples as you can and then to paint "religion" with that broad brush. If you want to legitimately discredit something, you have to address its best argument, not set up strawmen by taking the stupidest fringe features and portraying them as representative of the whole.
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Kind of a day late and a dollar short.
 
Satya said:
It's funny that it is when I'm conceding that you try to make an insult. Your true colors shine through quite brilliantly. I'm very proud of my life up to this point. If you wish to judge me for not being as high and mighty as you see yourself, then let us see your thread.
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Thanks for calling me a name in my PM. I have access to a computer once or twice a day currently.

Bashing Christianity is one of your pet peeves and is in your personal agenda....has been since I have been here. It will show up again, and again, and again...

I grow tired of it.
 
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just me said:
Thanks for calling me a name in my PM. I have access to a computer once or twice a day currently.

Bashing Christianity is one of your pet peeves and is in your personal agenda....has been since I have been here. It will show up again, and again, and again...

I grow tired of it.
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Nobleheart made an excellent case that my beef isn't with Christianity but with intellectually cowardly Christians who don't base their morality on any degree of fact or sound reason. No matter how "tired" of my behavior you may be, you are not justified to personally attack me.
 
Its amazing how much common ground religions around the world have; they all answer to the same human concerns

It's a shame that people are too busy pigeon holing themselves into groups to recognise the shared concerns they hold with the rest of humanity

I wonder if someone had given Jesus foresight of how his name would be used to drive wedges between people if he would ever have left the desert
 
I will remind you next time you bash Christians....
 
What i see is people drawing lines in the sand

I think a lot of these lines are illusionary

I think the important line in the sand is the one between the people (of all colours, religions and sexual preferences) and the few that control the people

Where religion is used by the few to control the many then i see a problem

Religion has often walked a fine line

Under organised religion you effectively have people dictating to other people how they should behave and claiming they have a mandate from god...

....i'd like to see gods signature on that please
 
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