[PUG] Self-Segregation and Bigotry

[Morgain]

Understood. I have a few things in your post I want to touch on.

In my opinion only, I'd like to point out..and I don't know why I think this way, I just do... I think a lot of people who question humanity, our emotions, our way of thinking, people who challenge us, tend to make us feel more deeply about things, are truly the people who "love" us. It may not be cuddly love, but people have vastly different ways of expressing love..

Just because we feel these deep emotions does not always make them the correct emotions to have. We have to evaluate why we are having them.

sure they can be questioned, no doubt about that. If it is been done in a respective and sincere way! I don't want to be self absorbed, not letting "others" question me.

But really what are we defending from? Our own irritation? Or from the behavior we are irritated by?

Honest, non-snark questions. I'm curious.

I only want this forum to stay a place where I'm not afraid of showing who I am and not to become a place where posts are ripped in pieces for the sake of logical glory without concidering peoples feelings.

 

[WellNoWonder]

I only want this forum to stay a place where I'm not afraid of showing who I am and not to become a place where posts are ripped in pieces for the sake of logical glory without concidering peoples feelings.

I'm still afraid of showing who I am here, and there are quite a few others who feel this way, they just aren't saying it. And it's not because threads are being ripped open...

Why is it some of us feel our feelings are not considered, even if this is supposed to be a safe haven?

 

[54192&#cmy]

Buddy, if this place qualifies as a "war zone" to you, you need to hang out at more forums...

We have maybe like, one serious argument here every two weeks or something.
Hardly exceptionally hostile.

When I mean war zone I mean emotional war zone. And I was using the poster above mines description. Your reaction is exactly what I was talking about...

Everyone knows that shai is kidding. It just takes them awhile to see it. Even I had a struggle with shai. And now we are friends. If I ever got the pleasure to visit his country which I love. I would look him up straight away...

 

[WellNoWonder]

It's hard to type some one who walked this earth just under two thousand years ago, but he did show tendencies of an INFJ, but simply he also shows tendencies to be other types as well.

thus my answer...lol I like to think Jesus was a rebel. But I will save that for another time...

 

[NeverAmI]

I'm still afraid of showing who I am here, and there are quite a few others who feel this way, they just aren't saying it. And it's not because threads are being ripped open...

Why is it some of us feel our feelings are not considered, even if this is supposed to be a safe haven?

A valid argument!

 

[Morgain]

I'm still afraid of showing who I am here, and there are quite a few others who feel this way, they just aren't saying it. And it's not because threads are being ripped open...

Why is it some of us feel our feelings are not considered, even if this is supposed to be a safe haven?

I don't know?!!! Why is it?

I can say for myself that it took time for me to get used to the forums. In the first months I was here I didn't feel part of the group and felt ignored. And I was affraid of showing my feelings and especially saying what was on my mind (I would have ignored all these treads if I was still where I was back then). But the forum grew on my and I have learned so much here, so many people has touched my soul. I was really closed up and emotionaly unavailable when I came here and the forum members somehow has opened me up, helped me to reach my full potential, lol! and I'm so grateful for that!

 

[WellNoWonder]

I don't know?!!! Why is it?

I can say for myself that it took time for me to get used to the forums. In the first months I was here I didn't feel part of the group and felt ignored. And I was affraid of showing my feelings and especially saying what was on my mind (I would have ignored all these treads if I was still where I was back then). But the forum grew on my and I have learned so much here, so many people has touched my soul. I was really closed up and emotionaly unavailable when I came here and the forum members somehow has opened me up, helped me to reach my full potential, lol! and I'm so grateful for that!

This place has opened me up a ton also.

In fact, I would have never asked any of these questions 3 months ago. And in fact, I have several developments in my life I am rather pleased with, simply because of the folks here. Thanks.

There is a "safe" safe on this forum it appears. I don't know percentages because I haven't done the math, but it seems like a minority of the folks outspoken views of safeness is what is taken into primary consideration here. The rest of the weirdos pacifists and anarchists who would prefer other routes into peacefulness and safeness are seemingly disregarded. The INFJ way is not the only or correct way. Are we as accepting as we claim to be here??

How do we know a troll is not simply a weirdo with a purpose?

How do we know we are even being attacked?

Perhaps why I had those crossed alligators as my avatar....

 

[NeverAmI]

How do we know a troll is not simply a weirdo with a purpose?

This is very true. I have assumed intent before, it isn't healthy, and I have most certainly been wrong before. I have my opinions of what proper etiquette is and that doesn't necessarily mean anyone else shares those.

 

[Morgain]

This place has opened me up a ton also.

In fact, I would have never asked any of these questions 3 months ago. And in fact, I have several developments in my life I am rather pleased with, simply because of the folks here. Thanks.

There is a "safe" safe on this forum it appears. I don't know percentages because I haven't done the math, but it seems like a minority of the folks outspoken views of safeness is what is taken into primary consideration here. The rest of the weirdos pacifists and anarchists who would prefer other routes into peacefulness and safeness are seemingly disregarded. The INFJ way is not the only or correct way. Are we as accepting as we claim to be here??

How do we know a troll is not simply a weirdo with a purpose?

How do we know we are even being attacked?

Perhaps why I had those crossed alligators as my avatar....

I understand you. Not everyone has the same view on safeness and who's view is taken into concideration.

I don't know really. Accepting. How accepting do you have to be. How much do you have to concider other people and how much can you concider yourself and your own needs?A lot of people see this place as a save heaven, should we bully them because they are not accepting other views, other ways? How far do you need to go in accepting? This is THE question of human kind since we came down from the trees I guess. Everyone has needs, INFJ's are no saints. The question seems to be whose needs are more important...

If I wasn't so attached to the forums right now, I would have just walked away. But I love this place so much I want to fight for it if I have to. It makes me sad to feel the current vibe of it ...

 

[WellNoWonder]

I understand you. Not everyone has the same view on safeness and who's view is taken into concideration.

I don't know really. Accepting. How accepting do you have to be. How much do you have to concider other people and how much can you concider yourself and your own needs?A lot of people see this place as a save heaven, should we bully them because they are not accepting other views, other ways? How far do you need to go in accepting? This is THE question of human kind since we came down from the trees I guess. Everyone has needs, INFJ's are no saints. The question seems to be whose needs are more important...

If I wasn't so attached to the forums right now, I would have just walked away. But I love this place so much I want to fight for it if I have to. It makes me sad to feel the current vibe of it ...

What about the people who do not see this forum as a safe haven? Should they go elsewhere because their thought process does not fit the majority? Why does one person's needs need to be given more value than another's needs?

We all have different needs on this board. Just because some are more vocal with their needs does not make their needs more valid than those who are not speaking.

There are plenty of concepts I disagree with here, and they make me downright uncomfortable and make me question my worth as a woman and a minority, but I am not going to be thrown out of anywhere because someone else does not/can not see me as a Human. In fact, I see some threads as passive-aggressive trolling INFJ style.

Is how I am relaying this message coming across as bullying? I certainly hope not. But if it is, then people are standing in my shoes right now, and perhaps they won't understand why, but if they think about it carefully, they will.

 

[Morgain]

What about the people who do not see this forum as a safe haven? Should they go elsewhere because their thought process does not fit the majority? Why does one person's needs need to be given more value than another's needs?

We all have different needs on this board. Just because some are more vocal with their needs does not make their needs more valid than those who are not speaking.

There are plenty of concepts I disagree with here, and they make me downright uncomfortable and make me question my worth as a woman and a minority, but I am not going to be thrown out of anywhere because someone else does not/can not see me as a Human. In fact, I see some threads as passive-aggressive trolling INFJ style.

Is how I am relaying this message coming across as bullying? I certainly hope not. But if it is, then people are standing in my shoes right now, and perhaps they won't understand why, but if they think about it carefully, they will.

didn't see that comming :shocked:

What is going on? Why do you feel this way, what has happened? I must have been oblivious as always

will you please enlighten me (if you feel the need to)? You can pm me if you want...

 

[WellNoWonder]

didn't see that comming :shocked:

What is going on? Why do you feel this way, what has happened? I must have been oblivious as always

will you please enlighten me (if you feel the need to)? You can pm me if you want...

There is no anger here, believe me. I am just stating what has happened.

I don't mind the negative feelings though.

This forum is not safer. It is as safe as anywhere else in the world.

If most people do not feel safeness, then how is this a safe haven?

 

[NeverAmI]

If most people do not feel safeness, then how is this a safe haven?

It is a manner of etiquette, I would think. It doesn't matter what you say, it is how you say it.

If you approach me with a knife and a grimace I am going to be much less inclined to listen to your message than if you have a smile and a hug. That is just how some people work.

These are all generalities and I don't specifically point out anyone. There is a cause and effect to certain ways people act. Now if there are specific incidents that have caused this loss of comfort, then I certainly hope that was not induced from me. As for other forum members, to each their own, we all have to adhere to our rules of etiquette and it is shameful if we do not.

That being said, we are all human and flawed by nature, to think otherwise is human.

 

[WellNoWonder]

It is a manner of etiquette, I would think. It doesn't matter what you say, it is how you say it.

If you approach me with a knife and a grimace I am going to be much less inclined to listen to your message than if you have a smile and a hug. That is just how some people work.

These are all generalities and I don't specifically point out anyone. There is a cause and effect to certain ways people act. Now if there are specific incidents that have caused this loss of comfort, then I certainly hope that was not induced from me. As for other forum members, to each their own, we all have to adhere to our rules of etiquette and it is shameful if we do not.

That being said, we are all human and flawed by nature, to think otherwise is human.

My own discomfort is fine. I have to learn how to counter it. Even if you did say something, I don't remember exactly, but I do remember how certain things said have made me feel while participating here. Your apology is accepted though it's not needed; we are all guilty of making others uncomfortable.

I want to add something else, but I have to think about it a bit more.

 

[sassafras]

I think, over all, folks need to be patient with one another and not jump to conclusions. It's not just the non-INFJ's that have been a bit off lately. People have just been flying off the handle on one another left, right and center. And its not an easy knot to untangle, because while some concerns are legitimate, they're difficult to sort from the ones that are wholly innocent, if only shaded a little differently.

There's a lot of instability on the forums right now because people who have trolled in the past have been coming back and creating multiple accounts and pming people with cryptic messages. So a lot of the unease is also happening behind the scenes and spilling out onto the forums. It makes it difficult for newcomers, especially those whose unique personalities we are unused to, because there is a lot of suspicion suspended in the air and its harder to opt for harmony and understanding when everyone is all tensed up. It's only natural that people flock to the familiar when things are getting chaotic and the consequences are often that people get alienated. The "safe" is automatically defaulted into defending what defined that "safeness" in the first place by those who had a chance to experience it, while those who have yet to make a full contribution to the community are left out of helping define it too.

Of course, I don't think that's right at all and I would like to hear some suggestions for a practical solution that is a compromise, rather than a hit on one party or another. I am not enjoying seeing this unrest and it makes me upset to see members squabbling about this with one another. If anything, this is just playing into the hands of the folks who intentionally or unintentionally chose to sow these seeds of unease.

The last thing I want is members who are legitimately here to contribute to the community feeling alienated or hurt or unsafe.

 

[WellNoWonder]

Thanks TDHT.

I think I should let others chime in at this point...

There are several good reasons to not leave this community. They are not talking. Maybe they will here...

 

[Billy]

Define "safe".

Somewhere we don't have to explain ourselves over and over and over and over and over and listen to people say "whats wrong, why are you so unhappy looking, whats the matter, hey, whats wrong , whats wrong blah blah blah" FUCK cant I just get along without people trying to figure me out? Thats what I like about this forum, I feel a level of acceptance that I cant feel surrounded by non-infj disckholes all in my life who all think I am fucked up or strange because of my proclivities. This forum offers a place where I can go and ask questions or pose theories and have people not be a bunch of retards. I tried doing the same on typology central, and it was fucking brutal, the SFs, and NTs run that shit and they are friggin brutal, judgemental assholes. This forum is like a family.

 

[INFJesus]

I think, over all, folks need to be patient with one another and not jump to conclusions. It's not just the non-INFJ's that have been a bit off lately. People have just been flying off the handle on one another left, right and center. And its not an easy knot to untangle, because while some concerns are legitimate, they're difficult to sort from the ones that are wholly innocent, if only shaded a little differently.

There's a lot of instability on the forums right now because people who have trolled in the past have been coming back and creating multiple accounts and pming people with cryptic messages. So a lot of the unease is also happening behind the scenes and spilling out onto the forums. It makes it difficult for newcomers, especially those whose unique personalities we are unused to, because there is a lot of suspicion suspended in the air and its harder to opt for harmony and understanding when everyone is all tensed up. It's only natural that people flock to the familiar when things are getting chaotic and the consequences are often that people get alienated. The "safe" is automatically defaulted into defending what defined that "safeness" in the first place by those who had a chance to experience it, while those who have yet to make a full contribution to the community are left out of helping define it too.

Of course, I don't think that's right at all and I would like to hear some suggestions for a practical solution that is a compromise, rather than a hit on one party or another. I am not enjoying seeing this unrest and it makes me upset to see members squabbling about this with one another. If anything, this is just playing into the hands of the folks who intentionally or unintentionally chose to sow these seeds of unease.

I understand that Shai Gar is the site owner. If this is correct, Then his 1st 2 posts to me both included the word TROLL in them.
When the paranoia starts at the top, it is going to have a trickle down effect.
I then chose to explain to him that between those 2 posts that he made to me, other people had moved on and began to see me for me, and not the CROW!!! I explained by telling him about my friend list and REP hits.
This has been called cock waving and now no one has rep power lsited in their inventory.
Not only that. All the "red names" have paid a visit to my profile today.
So yeah stuff goes on behind the scenes.
This is a safe place ??
I don't feel safe, not when the site admin has been convimced I have some sort of agenda since day one.

No wonder people are obessed with trolls, Its starts from the top and trickles down through the ranks and grows like a cancer.

 

[krooler]

I think the best bet it to stay calm and work together to restore or remake the forums to what we want them to be. Sooner or later those who do not want anything else than to troll, do harm or drain opinions will go some other place or start lurking.

If you feel unwelcome, throw that feeling away because everyone is welcome here UNTIL they prove they deserve otherwise, in which case the most likely thing that will happen is the curse of being ignored.

Personally, I'm a very forgiving person that just ignores bad behaviour so I'm not really sure why I'm responding to this thread... to help out perhaps.

 

[sassafras]

I understand that Shai Gar is the site owner. If this is correct, Then his 1st 2 posts to me both included the word TROLL in them.
When the paranoia starts at the top, it is going to have a trickle down effect.
I then chose to explain to him that between those 2 posts that he made to me, other people had moved on and began to see me for me, and not the CROW!!! I explained by telling him about my friend list and REP hits.
This has been called cock waving and now no one has rep power lsited in their inventory.
Not only that. All the "red names" have paid a visit to my profile today.
So yeah stuff goes on behind the scenes.
This is a safe place ??
I don't feel safe, not when the site admin has been convimced I have some sort of agenda since day one.

No wonder people are obessed with trolls, Its starts from the top and trickles down through the ranks and grows like a cancer.

To be honest, no, your initial introduction to the forums was not fair. A number of people mentioned why this might have been the case and I would like to think we have put the past behind us. You have already established yourself as a legitimate member of the forums to a number of people and I would think that we had let things be. Except you keep bringing up this same point on an almost daily basis and I think its difficult for some people not to make parallels with another poster that had a similar time accepting an apology from a fellow member in attempt to stir up trouble.

That being said, any time someone hits a report button, the admins and mods are required to investigate. It's not always legitimate nor does not automatically mean that you are being implicated for something, but we have to check each report. There are a lot of wrong conclusions that are being drawn here because we are in a state of paranoia.

This is exactly what I was trying to address in my post above. Some of us had made mistakes of accusing the wrong people and we're all walking on egg shells here. It would be extremely nice if we could find some way to move past this sludge-slinging.