Should African borders be sealed off and ebola allowed to run its course?

[Eventhorizon]

The question is straight foward. What if any responsibility does the rest of the world have toward Africa?

 

[bamf]

Sealed off? No. Let Ebola run its course? Sort-of.

I see it similar to the whole "feed Africa" thing. I feel incredibly cold-hearted when I say this, but does it really help a suffering population to "gift" them relief while denying them the ability to create their own salvation? I think the whole ebola thing is somewhat similar. Unless it can be eradicated (safely and without treacherous side-effects), I'm inclined to the "run-the-course" scenario. And I totally feel like a dick for saying that.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Well the boarders would have to be sealed to keep it from spreading into other countries.

I am not a fan of African mindset. Many of the tribes have numerous children knowing that many of those children will die from starvation. This is explained by some as, they have that many children becaue they know all wont survive but out of the many a few will. However the truth is much more simple than that. They are offered contraceptives through various programs and refuse them with many reasons cited but the most prevalent apparently being their religion doesnt agree with it. I cant think of anything more detestable than bringing a life into this world knowing it will suffer from day one. Your religion says nothing about it not being ok to keep it in your pants a$$×÷=+%.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Yep. Seal them off, quarantine that shit. How many of these people are traveling around and spreading Ebola all over the place? I mean, my God... Just let them hang.

I am so sick and tired of hearing about this shit spreading all over the place. This should have been quarantined a LONG time ago.

How many years have we been trying to educate them and help them and feed them? It just gets nowhere. Sometimes you just have to let things go and let them figure it out on their own.

I realize it's much more complicated than that, but what improvement have we REALLY seen over the last several decades? People are still fucking children to cure themselves of aids and popping out babies they can't care for and still haven't come up with some way to produce enough food to reduce famine, etc.

We can't force entire nations into coming up to our standards but we also can't coddle them like children only to have their ignorance spread more disease and tap more and more of our resources.

Should the get vaccines and medical technology and things to help them improve? Yes. But don't play nice by letting Ebola infected travelers spread that to other nations and become an epidemic that wipes out thousands of people.

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

Yep. Seal them off, quarantine that shit. How many of these people are traveling around and spreading Ebola all over the place? I mean, my God... Just let them hang.

I am so sick and tired of hearing about this shit spreading all over the place. This should have been quarantined a LONG time ago.

How many years have we been trying to educate them and help them and feed them? It just gets nowhere. Sometimes you just have to let things go and let them figure it out on their own.

I realize it's much more complicated than that, but what improvement have we REALLY seen over the last several decades? People are still fucking children to cure themselves of aids and popping out babies they can't care for and still haven't come up with some way to produce enough food to reduce famine, etc.

We can't force entire nations into coming up to our standards but we also can't coddle them like children only to have their ignorance spread more disease and tap more and more of our resources.

Should the get vaccines and medical technology and things to help them improve? Yes. But don't play nice by letting Ebola infected travelers spread that to other nations and become an epidemic that wipes out thousands of people.

The west is partially responsible for preventing African nations from thriving. I know it sounds like an [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] conspiracy theory but it's true. They've tried to develop their own African Union similar to the EU but we stopped them dead in their tracks by staging a revolution and killing Muammar Gaddafi. The reason for doing it was oil, he wanted to sell oil to other African nations at a fair price and cut the west out of the deal. Don't get me wrong, Gaddafi was a loopy mofo. But we didn't invade the country because we cared about Libya, it was strictly about wealth. We also stripped them of a bunch of their assets (like gold) shortly after the war ended, it was even on CNN. Sending in food packages with a parachute and all that shit is just good PR, in reality the west is highly responsible for the bullshit that goes on there.

Also, since when do people think that fucking children will cure them of AIDS? That's a very dangerous belief...

 

[SpecialEdition]

The west is partially responsible for preventing African nations from thriving. I know it sounds like an [MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] conspiracy theory but it's true. They've tried to develop their own African Union similar to the EU but we stopped them dead in their tracks by staging a revolution and killing Muammar Gaddafi. The reason for doing it was oil, he wanted to sell oil to other African nations at a fair price and cut the west out of the deal. Don't get me wrong, Gaddafi was a loopy mofo. But we didn't invade the country because we cared about Libya, it was strictly about wealth. We also stripped them of a bunch of their assets (like gold) shortly after the war ended, it was even on CNN. Sending in food packages with a parachute and all that shit is just good PR, in reality the west is highly responsible for the bullshit that goes on there.

Also, since when do people think that fucking children will cure them of AIDS? That's a very dangerous belief...

Oh it's a big thing over there. They have a lot of superstitions and everything about how taking a child's virginity is some magical cure. Just like they slaughter exceptionally rare animals for their voodoo shit and all this stuff. Now, the people there are exceptionally ignorant almost beyond belief and I don't know when that's ever going to change.

I know the western world fucks up a lot of stuff overseas. I think it's ass backwards to tear nations apart for our own benefit and fake nice by giving them food and delicious democracy (which we barely exercise here anyway) and meanwhile the Western world is struggling after an economic collapse we're probably never going to get out from under.

But we're not really talking about that here I guess. I got on a tangent. Just seal the countries off until Ebola sorts itself out.

 

[Cornerstone]

[MENTION=10321]Lone Wolf[/MENTION] - yeah, that was a thing. It was a belief that passing it on got rid of your disease. It must exist in pockets whereas before it was apparently quite widespread.

 

[bamf]

I realize it's much more complicated than that, but what improvement have we REALLY seen over the last several decades? People are still fucking children to cure themselves of aids and popping out babies they can't care for and still haven't come up with some way to produce enough food to reduce famine, etc.

I'm not targeting any other part of your post, but this paragraph honestly sounds like your painting an entire CONTINENT (I wanted to italicize, but it's all messed up. I promise I'm not yelling) of over a billion people as people who fuck babies a few years after they have them while poking the dirt expecting food to grow. I'm not trying to be mean, but honestly, it comes off as really ignorant, and I've never thought you to be ignorant.

It'd be like someone in Nigeria saying that North America is incredibly violent and inherently brutal because they are still cutting off people's heads and mailing them to their family. The Mexican Cartel doesn't describe North America, let alone Mexico.

Maybe I'm making mountains out of molehills, but it just doesn't settle right with me at all.


EDIT:

Oh it's a big thing over there. They have a lot of superstitions and everything about how taking a child's virginity is some magical cure. Just like they slaughter exceptionally rare animals for their voodoo shit and all this stuff. Now, the people there are exceptionally ignorant almost beyond belief and I don't know when that's ever going to change.

Never mind, I stand corrected.

 

[SpecialEdition]

I'm not targeting any other part of your post, but this paragraph honestly sounds like your painting an entire CONTINENT (I wanted to italicize, but it's all messed up. I promise I'm not yelling) of over a billion people as people who fuck babies a few years after they have them while poking the dirt expecting food to grow. I'm not trying to be mean, but honestly, it comes off as really ignorant, and I've never thought you to be ignorant.

It'd be like someone in Nigeria saying that North America is incredibly violent and inherently brutal because they are still cutting off people's heads and mailing them to their family. The Mexican Cartel doesn't describe North America, let alone Mexico.

Maybe I'm making mountains out of molehills, but it just doesn't settle right with me at all.


EDIT:

Never mind, I stand corrected.

Oh come on. I know it's not all like that and that there are educated people there and there's wealth and business and some resources but there is a substantial part of that particular continent (as well as other nations worldwide) that are all in the same boat. There is almost no progression what so ever. There are no sustainable resources for people to feed themselves and to get out of extreme poverty. There is not a lot of available education whether it be about sexuality, health or even reading and writing, etc. There are a lot of tribes in these countries that are barely surviving and a lot of people who just get forgotten in a bid for oil and control.

Now, there are people even over in the UK who think ALL of North America runs under the President of the United states. I have actually me these people who don't even know we have a prime minister. For the most part, Canada is an umbrella under the USA.

I think you are reading into my post completely wrong and find it funny that you're "not trying to be mean."

 

[tfg345i4u5lw]

Oh it's a big thing over there. They have a lot of superstitions and everything about how taking a child's virginity is some magical cure. Just like they slaughter exceptionally rare animals for their voodoo shit and all this stuff. Now, the people there are exceptionally ignorant almost beyond belief and I don't know when that's ever going to change.

I know the western world fucks up a lot of stuff overseas. I think it's ass backwards to tear nations apart for our own benefit and fake nice by giving them food and delicious democracy (which we barely exercise here anyway) and meanwhile the Western world is struggling after an economic collapse we're probably never going to get out from under.

But we're not really talking about that here I guess. I got on a tangent. Just seal the countries off until Ebola sorts itself out.

It seems like after a while they would realize "Hey, all these people are fucking children and none of them are getting cured, maybe that shit doesn't work!" DUH. I was honestly trying to make a joke because I thought you made some kind of typo or something. Holy shit I can't believe that wasn't a typo. That's some of the most retarded shit I've ever heard in my life.

 

[SpecialEdition]

It seems like after a while they would realize "Hey, all these people are fucking children and none of them are getting cured, maybe that shit doesn't work!" DUH. I was honestly trying to make a joke because I thought you made some kind of typo or something. Holy shit I can't believe that wasn't a typo. That's some of the most retarded shit I've ever heard in my life.

It's not like that everywhere but there are subsets of people who believe these things, or who even use the contraceptives that are handed out but turn the condoms inside out and use them again. This shit is documented. It's not representative of the entire continent but there are reasons that Ebola and such break out there. There is so much wrong over there.

I mean, can we talk about the Doctor who treated someone for Ebola and chose never to inform anyone? Performed operations on people, attended funerals with hand laying and spread that shit to a TON of people? http://www.npr.org/blogs/goatsandsoda/2014/09/05/346033875/a-diplomat-infected-a-doctor-as-ebola-spreads-in-nigeria I mean, COME ON. This is just one example and look at the widespread implications!

 

[bamf]

Oh come on. I know it's not all like that and that there are educated people there and there's wealth and business and some resources but there is a substantial part of that particular continent (as well as other nations worldwide) that are all in the same boat. There is almost no progression what so ever. There are no sustainable resources for people to feed themselves and to get out of extreme poverty. There is not a lot of available education whether it be about sexuality, health or even reading and writing, etc. There are a lot of tribes in these countries that are barely surviving and a lot of people who just get forgotten in a bid for oil and control.

Now, there are people even over in the UK who think ALL of North America runs under the President of the United states. I have actually me these people who don't even know we have a prime minister. For the most part, Canada is an umbrella under the USA.

I think you are reading into my post completely wrong and find it funny that you're "not trying to be mean."

But it still reads that you're painting an entire continent with the same brush. The practice you're talking about talks place mainly in sub-Saharan Africa, and the belief exists in many other parts of the world outside of Africa. You flat out said that the people there (Africa) are exceptionally ignorant and place this in connection with the raping of children. It's fucked up. I agree, there is a lot of ignorance and an incredible lack of education, but to those that don't know, it sounds like you're saying the continent of Africa is one full of people running around having sex with children because bush-science.

 

[SpecialEdition]

http://www.transparency.org/cpi2013/results


And even just to FURTHER my point. This corruption index is off the charts. Any particular reason why we are sending so much fucking foreign aid to countries who are blood red on the map? I get that it's a government thing for the most part, but Jesus Christ. We are instilling sanctions against so many nations and yet we're pouring out our resources and it's not getting better! Sure we might be able to feed a few mouths some enriched rice but why are we doing that if we don't even know those resources are reaching the people who desperately need it most?

Why is it that we seem to overlook so many shady details of what's happening from the top down because we want to cry for the kids with flies on their faces on the TV commercials? Can we not take a true, objective look at the situation as a whole and take into consideration that if we DON'T seal of epidemics we are putting the entire planet at risk?

Forget all of the pervasive ignorance and hoopalah that most people have in a lot of third world countries and just look at the people who are AWARE who are running the game from the top keeping their own people in the deepest circle of hell.

It's fucked up. I know my opinion is controversial on the situation but let's get real for a second here and really consider what's going on here.

 

[SpecialEdition]

But it still reads that you're painting an entire continent with the same brush. The practice you're talking about talks place mainly in sub-Saharan Africa, and the belief exists in many other parts of the world outside of Africa. You flat out said that the people there (Africa) are exceptionally ignorant and place this in connection with the raping of children. It's fucked up. I agree, there is a lot of ignorance and an incredible lack of education, but to those that don't know, it sounds like you're saying the continent of Africa is one full of people running around having sex with children because bush-science.

Oh I don't care it if comes off that way. It's an extreme take on an extreme situation in extreme conditions. Sorry, I know Africa as a whole continent isn't completely fucked up but a lot of it is and there are millions and millions of people who are suffering over there. I don't care if they've got fancy officials with all their education at the top because the fact remains that there is a lot of bullshit that happens there and in many parts of the world. I've explained my point in further comments.

 

[say what]

Africa, I don't believe, has the means of stopping and/or controlling an ebola outbreak. This means that they need aid, resources, and funding to help create and support the infrastructure needed to stop the spread of the disease. Shutting them off completely will only hurt us in the longrun. Ebola is something can is easily a world epidemic, which means we all need to work together to stop the spread of it.

I think shutting the boards off and sealing everyone in, won't work. What we need to do is create more international traveling policies so that it doesn't spread outside of the continent, but yet Africa can still receive resources to help mitigate the damages and continuous spread of the disease.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Africa, I don't believe, has the means of stopping and/or controlling an ebola outbreak. This means that they need aid, resources, and funding to help create and support the infrastructure needed to stop the spread of the disease. Shutting them off completely will only hurt us in the longrun. Ebola is something can is easily a world epidemic, which means we all need to work together to stop the spread of it.

I think shutting the boards off and sealing everyone in, won't work. What we need to do is create more international traveling policies so that it doesn't spread outside of the country, but yet Africa can still receive resources to help mitigate the damages and continuous spread of the disease.

I think it's ideal to have some mode of flexibility but I think even then it's not happening. There was a quarantine and a diplomat violated it to get treated for Ebola by a doctor who went on to hide that he was exposed to it, contracted Ebola and then exposed hundreds more people. So I mean, I don't know what kind of measures could REALISTICALLY be put in place to stop people from traveling in an out of the country or what kind of system can be set up to get people to actually seek treatment and not contact other people. I just honestly can't see it happening.

When I say seal people in I don't mean that they should be sealed in without resources or treatment. But I don't think anyone should be able to LEAVE the country until it's mostly contained. If people go in to provide aid whether that be food, medicine, etc, then they should not be allowed to leave without appropriately safeguarding for it.

But who is going to set that up and can it happen fast enough before it really starts to become a true global issue?

 

[SpecialEdition]

I know I am taking a really hard line on this subject and am coming off as a callous asshole, but I mean, what can we REALLY do? I would love to hear solutions to this. I would love to see third world countries not rife with corruption. I would love to see numbers like this change. I would love to see the world stop craving power and wealth and influence to the point of dropping bombs on innocent people and I would love for people to have enough knowledge and understanding of infections disease to know to seek treatment and not spread it.

But I mean, that is just not our reality. Our reality is really horrific and I don't like it. But I am not going to get soft and feely about it, either.

 

[say what]

I think it's ideal to have some mode of flexibility but I think even then it's not happening. There was a quarantine and a diplomat violated it to get treated for Ebola by a doctor who went on to hide that he was exposed to it, contracted Ebola and then exposed hundreds more people. So I mean, I don't know what kind of measures could REALISTICALLY be put in place to stop people from traveling in an out of the country or what kind of system can be set up to get people to actually seek treatment and not contact other people. I just honestly can't see it happening.

When I say seal people in I don't mean that they should be sealed in without resources or treatment. But I don't think anyone should be able to LEAVE the country until it's mostly contained. If people go in to provide aid whether that be food, medicine, etc, then they should not be allowed to leave without appropriately safeguarding for it.

But who is going to set that up and can it happen fast enough before it really starts to become a true global issue?

It is a really hard issue. I worry about people fleeing the country or trying to escape being exposed and end up hiding in neighbouring places- this would then lead to the same thing, more people being exposed and more transmission.

 

[SpecialEdition]

It is a really hard issue. I worry about people fleeing the country or trying to escape being exposed and end up hiding in neighbouring places- this would then lead to the same thing, more people being exposed and more transmission.

I think this is pretty much exactly what would happen either way. My idea of sealing them off is an "ideal" to me, whereas creating infrastructure to treat and educate people is also an "ideal." I have no idea how either would be achieved. Unfortunately only so much can be enforced and there are always going to be people who upset the system and cause a lot of issues.

 

[Rcs6r]

Travel should definitely be restricted if not completely stopped, especially air travel. I wouldn't allow international flights to land or depart from any of the confirmed outbreak areas, nor their adjacent countries just to be safe.

This is a map and table of the current status of the outbreak:


Source

Looking at these, it appears ebola is spreading north/north-east, as there is a confirmed travel-related case in Senegal. No reports from the immediate east in the Ivory Coast - yet.

One idea I have is any persons with a passport wishing to leave the effected countries must notify checkpoints at the borders in advance, arrive to these checkpoints (which contain sterilized quarantine zones) at a pre-determined time, and stay at the site for 21 days (the incubation period) with the option to receive the experimental vaccine. If no illness is present after that time, they are free to pass through the checkpoint to a verified outbreak-free nation. It's a flawed idea, as it is not 100% fool-proof, but it's a start.