So....... Does anyone feel energies

Kgal said:
I don't often think of Freud anymore but I suppose you are correct in this definition.

I think of the ego as that conditioning I received as a child and young adult that went contrary to my natural inclination and talents or gifts that I had.

For example: I am a natural at taking care of the earth and her creatures. If left alone and with the necessary resources I could create a heavenly garden here on earth. Yet I was forced to leave my "garden" as a child and made to sit still all day in school - learn math and literature and science - and forced to work for food and land that I might have a little bit of my heavenly garden. In my society there is no room for a person like me to make a living and thrive. I have to have a job that fits within the capitalist patterns of money and economy. I work for those who control the jobs and they don't want a heavenly garden on earth.

Therefore, as a child and into adulthood, I was traumatized for wanting to use my gifts in the service of nature.

That is part of the conditioning from childhood that formed my current ego. When this human form dies - "I" (my consciousness) will continue - but without the current Ego.

What is your belief system regarding your ego and dying?
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Well, for starters, I would call 'super-ego' what you call 'ego'. Your conscious sense of what is important is at odds with your conditioned social morays.

Anyhow, I see that quite a few parts of my id - or desire for gratification - are at odds with my ego. That is, what I see as important, real and beautiful are sometimes at odds with my desires. Also, current cultural norms and values often promote the id - that is, consumer culture tells us to satisfy our basic urges.

While I don't see the satisfying of basic urges to be all bad, in moderation, I strongly aspire to something more. Unless I am mistaken, I think the Freudian term for the seat of this aspiration is the ego.

I think the aspiration for something more than food, shelter and sex (and the varying degrees of lavishness/luxury of these things) is a common thing among INFJs. Where I feel at odds with many INFJs is that I do not want a 'beyond-the-id-life' that consists in what is imaginary, fantasy, or romanticised reality. I want what is real.

This will sound critical, but it isn't meant to be: I don't want a romanticised farm/garden because a garden is still fundamentally a source of food. I don't want a romanticised relationship, because relationships are significantly mostly about sex. And I don't want a romanticised tree-house, palace, or retreat because these things are basically about shelter.

What I want is beyond these things - the basics - and beyond the more developed/refined forms of these.

In terms of human life (not just our own personal experience of it) food, shelter and sex are basically supports for our existence. That is to say, they are a means to our end, which is existence (as individuals, or as a species). What I want is a more developed/refined/etc. understanding and possession of a more excellent way of existing.

In terms of this thread, the fascination with 'energy', 'vibrations', etc. etc. seems to be about just that. However, These things seem derivative of existence - they are forms of existence. True, they are an engagement of something beyond the basics - an engagement of the mind and imagination. However, they seem like flights from the real and a retreat into a mental form of 'shelter', or perhaps super-sensual form of titillation.

Existence is common to everything - even to mundane banking and bills. But there are more developed ways of existing: plant life is 'more real' than inanimate existence; sentient life is more real than plant life; and intellectual life is more real than sense alone. Or so it seems to me.

Nevertheless, whereas inanimate existence is a more basic form of existence, it exists nevertheless. I want to be able to look at all things and see them as they are - without wanting to imagine them in a way that is either principally about comforting, or exciting me.

Also, to understand something fully, you cannot just look at a static 'snap-shot' of it. There has to be a sense of its origins and its ultimate end. Now this is relatively easy in terms of functionality - a person exists because his/her parents begot him/her... and his ultimate end is to die after a lot of ultimately futile activity. However, in terms of existence, it is far more difficult to understand a being's origin and end, in itself.

What I want then, is to understand the cause and end of existence itself. This cause is commonly called God, because there seems to be no other name commonly given to the very cause of existence. [The big bang itself existed, but what caused its existence? ... That kind of question]. Also, given, that we, nor any other observable power, has control over existence (ie. we cannot create out of nothing, nor reduce something to nothing), there is probably one universal cause of all existence. Sure, we can change how things exist - even nuclear fusion/fission simply changes the form of some matter into free energy. But it seems to me, that if one can understand the cause of existence in any small way, then one will understand every existing thing more.


Anyhow, that's what I want - to understand what is.
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
Would you like to do this with logic?
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Yes, with logic, insofar as logic is a part of right reasoning. But we are each a complex composite of different faculties. Logic pertains to assisting the intellectual faculty directly, but not the others, so logic is just an assistance.
 
You know sometimes, some people are just more sensitive to vibes and energies than others. And it doesn't mean they are psychic, more spiritually in tune, or more supernatural than anyone else. Some people have more heightened senses and can p/u on stuff more than others. Just as some are more gifted in music, math, writing, science, etc. there are others who are more socially and psychologically aware and sensitive to other people's vibes and feelings than others. Sometimes, it's just that simple.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Yes, with logic, insofar as logic is a part of right reasoning. But we are each a complex composite of different faculties. Logic pertains to assisting the intellectual faculty directly, but not the others, so logic is just an assistance.
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Get off your horse and speak to the point, english is my third language and therefore you are speaking in codes to me.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Well, for starters, I would call 'super-ego' what you call 'ego'. Your conscious sense of what is important is at odds with your conditioned social morays.

Anyhow, I see that quite a few parts of my id - or desire for gratification - are at odds with my ego. That is, what I see as important, real and beautiful are sometimes at odds with my desires. Also, current cultural norms and values often promote the id - that is, consumer culture tells us to satisfy our basic urges.

While I don't see the satisfying of basic urges to be all bad, in moderation, I strongly aspire to something more. Unless I am mistaken, I think the Freudian term for the seat of this aspiration is the ego.

I think the aspiration for something more than food, shelter and sex (and the varying degrees of lavishness/luxury of these things) is a common thing among INFJs. Where I feel at odds with many INFJs is that I do not want a 'beyond-the-id-life' that consists in what is imaginary, fantasy, or romanticised reality. I want what is real.

This will sound critical, but it isn't meant to be: I don't want a romanticised farm/garden because a garden is still fundamentally a source of food. I don't want a romanticised relationship, because relationships are significantly mostly about sex. And I don't want a romanticised tree-house, palace, or retreat because these things are basically about shelter.

What I want is beyond these things - the basics - and beyond the more developed/refined forms of these.

In terms of human life (not just our own personal experience of it) food, shelter and sex are basically supports for our existence. That is to say, they are a means to our end, which is existence (as individuals, or as a species). What I want is a more developed/refined/etc. understanding and possession of a more excellent way of existing.

In terms of this thread, the fascination with 'energy', 'vibrations', etc. etc. seems to be about just that. However, These things seem derivative of existence - they are forms of existence. True, they are an engagement of something beyond the basics - an engagement of the mind and imagination. However, they seem like flights from the real and a retreat into a mental form of 'shelter', or perhaps super-sensual form of titillation.

Existence is common to everything - even to mundane banking and bills. But there are more developed ways of existing: plant life is 'more real' than inanimate existence; sentient life is more real than plant life; and intellectual life is more real than sense alone. Or so it seems to me.

Nevertheless, whereas inanimate existence is a more basic form of existence, it exists nevertheless. I want to be able to look at all things and see them as they are - without wanting to imagine them in a way that is either principally about comforting, or exciting me.

Also, to understand something fully, you cannot just look at a static 'snap-shot' of it. There has to be a sense of its origins and its ultimate end. Now this is relatively easy in terms of functionality - a person exists because his/her parents begot him/her... and his ultimate end is to die after a lot of ultimately futile activity. However, in terms of existence, it is far more difficult to understand a being's origin and end, in itself.

What I want then, is to understand the cause and end of existence itself. This cause is commonly called God, because there seems to be no other name commonly given to the very cause of existence. [The big bang itself existed, but what caused its existence? ... That kind of question]. Also, given, that we, nor any other observable power, has control over existence (ie. we cannot create out of nothing, nor reduce something to nothing), there is probably one universal cause of all existence. Sure, we can change how things exist - even nuclear fusion/fission simply changes the form of some matter into free energy. But it seems to me, that if one can understand the cause of existence in any small way, then one will understand every existing thing more.


Anyhow, that's what I want - to understand what is.
Click to expand...

Seeing things the way they are is what those that can see energy do. I unfortunately can't see energy in that way....and I can relate to your wish of understanding.

I was thinking about "understanding the cause and end of existence itself" and an image of a mobius strip popped into my mind. Also - an image of a black hole from the side view formed where I could see us - our galaxy flowing in one side only to emerge through and out beyond the other side of it. One side was dark and the other was light. This was then repeated infinitely from one universe to another.

What if there is no beginning and no end? What will your "need" to know do then?

You sound as if you would be quite comfortable pursuing the Zen path. Have you ever looked into the process?
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Yes, with logic, insofar as logic is a part of right reasoning. But we are each a complex composite of different faculties. Logic pertains to assisting the intellectual faculty directly, but not the others, so logic is just an assistance.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And that is where moving over to the right side of the brain and engaging one's imagination comes into play.

I am beginning to understand that relying only on left brain "thinking" abilities while denying the right side "imagination" abilities is limiting my human experience.

Those who are enlightened and vibrating at a high frequency must be utilizing their entire brains. I seek to exercise my right brain often. Could this be what happens when one meditates or goes deeply into prayer? I wonder about these things. I also find my logical mind interferes with my intuitive mind when it ventures off into the "mystical". Seeing visions and feeling strong messages can be a bit unnerving because the logical mind wants to make sense of it all.

Thing is...it's not supposed to make sense. If it did - then it would be back to square one which means living only in the rational.

Like a pendulum in full wide swing - western humanity has careened from the extreme of believing in all sorts of negative religious nonsense (the inquisition for example) to all sorts of atheistic scientific nonsense ( like when we die that's the end). When the pendulum reaches balance between these extremes - synergy will occur and there will finally be a chance for humanity to accept it's full entire self.

Then we will finally know All That Is.
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
Get off your horse and speak to the point, english is my third language and therefore you are speaking in codes to me.
Click to expand...

English:
Logic helps one understand.
Understanding is important.
Understanding guides feelings/experience.
Logic directly helps understanding; and indirectly helps other parts of life.


And since English is not your first language, you might appreciate being told that telling someone 'to get off your horse' is considered impolite and offensive.
 
Kgal said:
Agreed. And that is where moving over to the right side of the brain and engaging one's imagination comes into play.

I am beginning to understand that relying only on left brain "thinking" abilities while denying the right side "imagination" abilities is limiting my human experience.

Those who are enlightened and vibrating at a high frequency must be utilizing their entire brains. I seek to exercise my right brain often. Could this be what happens when one meditates or goes deeply into prayer? I wonder about these things. I also find my logical mind interferes with my intuitive mind when it ventures off into the "mystical". Seeing visions and feeling strong messages can be a bit unnerving because the logical mind wants to make sense of it all.

Thing is...it's not supposed to make sense. If it did - then it would be back to square one which means living only in the rational.

Like a pendulum in full wide swing - western humanity has careened from the extreme of believing in all sorts of negative religious nonsense (the inquisition for example) to all sorts of atheistic scientific nonsense ( like when we die that's the end). When the pendulum reaches balance between these extremes - synergy will occur and there will finally be a chance for humanity to accept it's full entire self.

Then we will finally know All That Is.
Click to expand...
Whatever experiences/operations one has that temporarily exclude part of one's whole self sound as though they are internally inharmonious and contradictory.

How can one be at peace with others, the universe, or God if one is not at peace with oneself?
Even in politics, the suppression of opposition is never considered true peace/harmony; how can the suppression of reason, or emotion/imagination bring inner harmony.

Spirituality, religion, or whatever you call it, seems to demand the wedding of the left and right brain functions... Imagination that embraces truth, reality and reason; and reason that feels a deep, creative love.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
Whatever experiences/operations one has that temporarily exclude part of one's whole self sound as though they are internally inharmonious and contradictory.

How can one be at peace with others, the universe, or God if one is not at peace with oneself?
Even in politics, the suppression of opposition is never considered true peace/harmony; how can the suppression of reason, or emotion/imagination bring inner harmony.

Spirituality, religion, or whatever you call it, seems to demand the wedding of the left and right brain functions... Imagination that embraces truth, reality and reason; and reason that feels a deep, creative love.
Click to expand...

Not repression, direction.

You've clearly illustrated here how outside and inside are one. It's not simply the fact of a politician suppressing the opposition, it's more about their motivation for doing so. In principle they crave desires and results up to an unproductive level. It is judgment for what they think the world should be, and dissatisfaction for the world not being that way.

Internally it is the same principle. There is no separation because the subject mechanism is predicating based upon subjective desires regardless of what the object of attention is, what it is made of, or where it is. In this sense all things are equal.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
English:
Logic helps one understand.
Understanding is important.
Understanding guides feelings/experience.
Logic directly helps understanding; and indirectly helps other parts of life.


And since English is not your first language, you might appreciate being told that telling someone 'to get off your horse' is considered impolite and offensive.
Click to expand...

Oh i knew i was being offensive, it was how i chose to deal with your large ego explosions.

Edit: But putting that aside, thanks for the clearing. Makes much more sense now. However, understanding all there is is a bit presumptuous. I believe that to grasp reality best, you could just feel and sense yourself in the deepest way you can is the best shot you have because you are a part of reality and a part of what is.
 
I know it is difficult, but treating an opponent poorly takes the meaning out of all of this.

The universe is all and being one with it also includes the opponent. They are not exempt. Try to be kind in your disagreements.
 
sprinkles said:
I know it is difficult, but treating an opponent poorly takes the meaning out of all of this.

The universe is all and being one with it also includes the opponent. They are not exempt. Try to be kind in your disagreements.
Click to expand...

I believe war is an inevitable part of life. And once peace is achieved, to maintain it, you must be prepared for war.
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
I believe war is an inevitable part of life. And once peace is achieved, to maintain it, you must be prepared for war.
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The soldier's vocation is different from that of the mystic... I think that is a fair extension of what sprinkles was saying.
 
Flavus Aquila said:
The soldier's vocation is different from that of the mystic... I think that is a fair extension of what sprinkles was saying.
Click to expand...

I agree with both these things you said. However i don't see my self as neither as soldier nor a mystic. I do however prefer peace upon war :)
 
In response to the OP, yes. I feel energy but I believe everybody does. I also do not think it is a psychic or mythical phenomenon as we are all made up of the same stuff as everything around us. We are energy, we produce energy and we take in energy. Our body communicates with itself through the use of energy so it is only natural that we and other living things give off energy. When you step into the sun and feel warm, you are feeling energy. When you step out into the cold, you are feeling energy. So yes I think any person that has ever lived feels energy. Pretty normal and natural, I think.
 
jimtaylor said:
In response to the OP, yes. I feel energy but I believe everybody does. I also do not think it is a psychic or mythical phenomenon as we are all made up of the same stuff as everything around us. We are energy, we produce energy and we take in energy. Our body communicates with itself through the use of energy so it is only natural that we and other living things give off energy. When you step into the sun and feel warm, you are feeling energy. When you step out into the cold, you are feeling energy. So yes I think any person that has ever lived feels energy. Pretty normal and natural, I think.
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True that, though most people (in western society at least) see a difference between feeling temperature and feeling energy.
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
True that, though most people (in western society at least) see a difference between feeling temperature and feeling energy.
Click to expand...

That is true which is odd, since they are one in the same.
 
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