Societal Divide Between Intuitives and Sensors, A Theory

[the]

Who wants to hold the structure together?

I'm not interested in stasis....i'm interested in evolution

Homeless people would like a shelter that doesnt fall on them, for starters.

 

[muir]

Homeless people would like a shelter that doesnt fall on them, for starters.

Now that sir is a very good example of concrete thinking!

Just don't think that because i use metaphors that i can't weild a hammer well....i can

I'll invent a shelter taking in the holistic approach of the needs of the person v's the needs of the wider community and the environment....then i'll hand those plans to the details people (including the number crunchers!)

I don't mind however getting my hands dirty and helping to build the thing...in fact i would enjoy the process

I wouldn't see the builders as 'drones' because i know that their work often requires creative solutions to the problems that arise and i respect skills and skillfullness

I like seeing the whole picture though...i don't like being told: 'here hammer those nails in then come back to me for your next job'

I want to know the ins and outs, the whys and wherefors and the big picture as well as helping with the actual physical doing (and being in the moment and engaging with physical reality)

A blend of theory and practical, microscopic and macroscopic

Our society doesn't currently suit this because it has been moulded into 'specialisation' and i'm a generalist; so i think it can take a lot of effort for an INFJ to find their niche

 

[the]

Now that sir is a very good example of concrete thinking!

Just don't think that because i use metaphors that i can't weild a hammer well....i can

I'll invent a shelter taking in the holistic approach of the needs of the person v's the needs of the wider community and the environment....then i'll hand those plans to the details people (including the number crunchers!)

I don't mind however getting my hands dirty and helping to build the thing...in fact i would enjoy the process

I wouldn't see the builders as 'drones' because i know that their work often requires creative solutions to the problems that arise and i respect skills and skillfullness

I like seeing the whole picture though...i don't like being told: 'here hammer those nails in then come back to me for your next job'

I want to know the ins and outs, the whys and wherefors and the big picture as well as helping with the actual physical doing (and being in the moment and engaging with physical reality)

A blend of theory and practical, microscopic and macroscopic

Our society doesn't currently suit this because it has been moulded into 'specialisation' and i'm a generalist; so i think it can take a lot of effort for an INFJ to find their niche

I feel this is a misunderstanding of job specialization. If I remember I will write more when im not on my phone.

 

[muir]

I feel this is a misunderstanding of job specialization. If I remember I will write more when im not on my phone.

Specialisation is dehumanising

It is about making people into cogs in a machine

Its advocates will say something about increasing 'efficiency' but other aspects of their drive for 'efficiency'or 'progress' is cutting jobs, destroying the environment, driving down wages etc

Its not a good system and it makes people miserable because people did not evolve to be one trick ponies....we're human beings not machines

[video=youtube;v7z9zpjk3xU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7z9zpjk3xU[/video]

 

[the]

How do you define specialization?

 

[muir]

How do you define specialization?

Here's an instructional video:

[video=youtube;DfGs2Y5WJ14]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfGs2Y5WJ14[/video]

 

[LucyJr]

No

Holmes was an introvert

Holmes was interested in the meaning behind things....he was an intuitive

An introverted intuitive

Does this guy look like a introverted intuitive to you?
[video=youtube;XWjgt9PzYEM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWjgt9PzYEM[/video]

 

[the]

Does this guy look like a introverted intuitive to you?
[video=youtube;XWjgt9PzYEM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWjgt9PzYEM[/video]

Do you like him? Must be infj.

 

[Trifoilum]

I think the OP meant well, but yes, the end result was very flawed. I'm sorry.

It is tempting to lay this as a fundamental, and I believe to a certain extent, most of us have heard / believed in this in one way or another,

But part of our growth as an individual is to transcend stereotypes and start seeing people as who they are; past, present, and future; and that also includes transcending the S/N boundaries and MBTI.

Thinking, acting, and living as in S/N people are two fundamentally different people (and the 16 MBTIs too!) are quite dangerous a lifestyle to adopt, IMO. It promotes haughtiness.

 

[muir]

Does this guy look like a introverted intuitive to you?
[video=youtube;XWjgt9PzYEM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWjgt9PzYEM[/video]

That is NOT sherlock holmes

I have not commented on arthur conon doyle and would need to do more research before forming a strong impression...i said HOLMES is an introverted intuitive

However Conan Doyle talks about being interested in the reasons behind why detectives in novels come to their findings and introverted intuitives are interested in the meanings behind things, also he is an abstract thinker interested in spiritualism and says he has had psychic experiences

That does NOT sound like concrete sensor thinking to me

Also he talks about using his explorations into psychic phenomena as a way of healing people; he talks about the anguish after the war where people wondered where all the dead had gone...he sees spiritualism as a form of psychic healing by onsoling people through removing the veil of death

He even talks about working towards a 'higher purpose'

He says, in a way that reminded me of an interview of Jung on the gnosis, that he does not believe these things he KNOWS them

All these things are tell-tales when it comes to typing

 

[muir]

Do you like him? Must be infj.

If you read the introverted intuition passage i posted above and if you read descriptions of the INFJ type you will be able to familiarise yourself with the characteristic aspects of the INFJ type....you will then be abe to recognise them in people when you see it

This is how you can then begin to form impressions

if you like someone or not is completely immaterial when typing as you know

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck

What i think some people struggle with is that some of the cool people in history, real or fictional have been introverted intuitives

yay!

 

[Keirouen]

Not that it matters at this point, but I want to say this. I didn't intend for this thread to be a Sensors vs Intuitives battlefield XD

My view is that both intuitives and sensors have weak points. Different weak points. I love intuitives. My family is full of sensors and I can have wonderfully intellectual discussions with my parents. This isn't a thread about intuitive superiority. I'm exploring a bunch of ideas. I'm being really broad about the ideas. The intuitive way I think naturally works better when I don't try to go too in depth at first. I'm looking at global effects of correlating patterns more than at individual people with this. I'm interested in individual people but I feel like I won't understand the full extent of what I'm trying to get at if I focus on the details. People on the individual level are confusing and paradoxical. It's easier to see clearly in the abstract. I know abstraction is terrible in real life but at least for the purpose of exploring ideas -I find it effective.

...otherwise my ADD would take over and I wouldn't get anywhere

 

[Sriracha]

I think the OP sees a divide only because she wants to see one to validate her own existence. Doesn't mean it's right or true, it's just her perspective. Keep in mind it's a choice too. As long as she makes false assumptions about people she doesn't know, she could be pushing away a plethora of people who have the ability to enrich her life.

 

[Keirouen]

I think the OP sees a divide only because she wants to see one to validate her own existence. Doesn't mean it's right or true, it's just her perspective. Keep in mind it's a choice too. As long as she makes false assumptions about people she doesn't know, she could be pushing away a plethora of people who have the ability to enrich her life.

I don't see the divide as something absolute. There are people who've been sensors their whole lives and go over to being more intuitive later in life. Same with some intuitives. Extroverts become more introverted. Introverts become more extroverted. It's a continuum. But most people lock into leaning more into one direction or the other (I feel like I'm talking about sexual orientation.) Everything is paradoxical in life and even the most stable aspects of us and our world aren't immune. To understand a concept we often have to make it a little rigid. Otherwise it's easy to get lost in the complexity

 

[the]

I don't see the divide as something absolute. There are people who've been sensors their whole lives and go over to being more intuitive later in life. Same with some intuitives. Extroverts become more introverted. Introverts become more extroverted. It's a continuum. But most people lock into leaning more into one direction or the other (I feel like I'm talking about sexual orientation.) Everything is paradoxical in life and even the most stable aspects of us and our world aren't immune. To understand a concept we often have to make it a little rigid. Otherwise it's easy to get lost in the complexity

Interesting. Who has switched later in life, as an example?


Also there seems to be an implied order in thinking styles. Why is it that abstract thinking is considered better or higher than concrete thinking? Not attacking here, just musing.

 

[muir]

Interesting. Who has switched later in life, as an example?


Also there seems to be an implied order in thinking styles. Why is it that abstract thinking is considered better or higher than concrete thinking? Not attacking here, just musing.

Reading the thread i don't see that anyone is saying that abstract thinking is better than concrete thinking i think that society can benefit from both

What i would say though is that introverted intuition is a minority mode of processing information and as is often the case with minorities they can be treated differently by the majority who by dint of their greater numbers sometimes feel in a self entitled way that THEY represent the norm and thateveryone else should bend to them

We live in an extroverted sensor world where introverted intuition is often marginalised

So the REAL question is not: 'why is abstract thinking better than concrete' (because that is not the prevalent prejudice in our society), the real question is: ''how do we become as a society more appreciative and accepting of diversity?''

 

[the]

Reading the thread i don't see that anyone is saying that abstract thinking is better than concrete thinking i think that society can benefit from both

What i would say though is that introverted intuition is a minority mode of processing information and as is often the case with minorities they can be treated differently by the majority who by dint of their greater numbers sometimes feel in a self entitled way that THEY represent the norm and thateveryone else should bend to them

We live in an extroverted sensor world where introverted intuition is often marginalised

So the REAL question is not: 'why is abstract thinking better than concrete' (because that is not the prevalent prejudice in our society), the real question is: ''how do we become as a society more appreciative and accepting of diversity?''

Its implied with words such as (from the op) the intuitive frequency is the truth, sensors are fearful while i ntuitives are not, for two examples. Intuitive get the positive light and sensors get the negatives mentioned. Or when someone takes what a sensor is saying and then concludes by saying the sensors question is not real.

Little things like that. My questions and comments are still legitimate so stop trying to circumvent any answers that might be given. Thank you.

 

[muir]

Its implied with words such as (from the op) the intuitive frequency is the truth, sensors are fearful while i ntuitives are not, for two examples. Intuitive get the positive light and sensors get the negatives mentioned. Or when someone takes what a sensor is saying and then concludes by saying the sensors question is not real.

Little things like that. My questions and comments are still legitimate so stop trying to circumvent any answers that might be given. Thank you.

Well lets say for arguments sake, hypothetically that there has been some implied bias against sensors on the thread then could you appreciate that this forum being titled 'the infj forum' and created with the stated aim of drawing people of that type or who are interested in the type that this tiny little corner of the internet and outwith that in the wider world that this little oasis might be one place where introvrted intuitives might not be so heavily outnumbered by sensors and that they might seek to encourage each other to sustain each other in a world in which they are often treated with prejudice as a minority?

If you step outside this little introverted intuition enclave the rest of the world is overwhelmingly sensor biased

Do you really want to chase down introverted inutitives in this last little bastion that they might feel some sanctuary in?

 

[the]

Well lets say for arguments sake, hypothetically that there has been some implied bias against sensors on the thread then could you appreciate that this forum being titled 'the infj forum' and created with the stated aim of drawing people of that type or who are interested in the type that this tiny little corner of the internet and outwith that in the wider world that this little oasis might be one place where introvrted intuitives might not be so heavily outnumbered by sensors and that they might seek to encourage each other to sustain each other in a world in which they are often treated with prejudice as a minority?

If you step outside this little introverted intuition enclave the rest of the world is overwhelmingly sensor biased

Do you really want to chase down introverted inutitives in this last little bastion that they might feel some sanctuary in?

So now im chasing down intuitives? Give me a break.

 

[muir]

So now im chasing down intuitives? Give me a break.

Well it's something to think about...

You're saying that youre being oppressed as a sensor and i'm just saying to you that sensors ARE the majority...but anyway..

Do you perceive there to be a clear divide between sensors and intuitives in our society?