State Imposed Moral Standards?

[Duty]

That's 230 years, assuming you're talking about the founding fathers of the U.S.
You bring up a good point. Why must we judge our government according to an old document? Why is the Constitution assumed to be perfect (except for the occasional amendment)? Would it be so wrong to rewrite it?

Wow, and I consider myself a math nerd...good job Duty.


The problem is that reviewing our laws and structure won't happen. Something terrible enough to make people lose faith and hope in the system has to happen.

The first thing, imo, that would have to happen is capitalism has to go. Our system is based almost solely on profit...without the concern for what is good for people. It is all about selfish desire for money, and it produces the horrible structure we have now: where the rich stomp all over the poor, where the top 2% own half the world's wealth...it's ridiculous.

 

[just me]

I see how the foundations have been manipulated and changed; that is what I bring to this discussion. I bring this because of a feeling many people have neither given ear to our founding fathers of this country and their words of wisdom(which admittedly were influenced by the times), nor have remembered why they left where they left to fight the way they did for what they built. I call that the roots or foundation of this country. The structure has changed much with time and with adaptations to the times, I do agree.
The quotes were used as a basis for said roots building said foundation.

 

[Duty]

I see how the foundations have been manipulated and changed; that is what I bring to this discussion. I bring this because of a feeling many people have neither given ear to our founding fathers of this country and their words of wisdom(which admittedly were influenced by the times), nor have remembered why they left where they left to fight the way they did for what they built. I call that the roots or foundation of this country. The structure has changed much with time and with adaptations to the times, I do agree.
The quotes were used as a basis for said roots building said foundation.

Question: Does our system work?

 

[just me]

I feel the rewriting of our constitution would bring about chaos at the moment because everyone in our military, both past and present, swore an oath to protect that constitution. While there may be a few as exceptions, many simply would not stand for it.

 

[Duty]

The problem is that reviewing our laws and structure won't happen. Something terrible enough to make people lose faith and hope in the system has to happen.

I feel the rewriting of our constitution would bring about chaos at the moment because everyone in our military, both past and present, swore an oath to protect that constitution. While there may be a few as exceptions, many simply would not stand for it.

I see a theme here.


Anyways, I ask again: Does our current system work?

 

[just me]

Question: Does our system work?

I feel the constitution is good. I feel the way the two current parties place party before government and party before ethics, we are a divided nation.
Should the two parties work together as one, similarly to during WWII, our nation would work with the government we have. Our government basically works well when the people work together as one. When there is a common goal for the common good of this country, it works. If I may possibly misquote in trying to quote an old saying, "A nation divided amongst itself will surely fall."

 

[IndigoSensor]

Haha... good luck trying to define/mold my morals! They are defined by me, and only me.

I will have no state, government, religion, or anything tell me what is right or wrong. Many of these things are intrinsic to begin with and don't take much thought to understand them (i.e. not killing people). For subtal ones, it is simply the fact at letting people do what they want, so long as it doesn't cause harm.

 

[Duty]

I feel the constitution is good. I feel the way the two current parties place party before government and party before ethics, we are a divided nation.
Should the two parties work together as one, similarly to during WWII, our nation would work with the government we have. Our government basically works well when the people work together as one. When there is a common goal for the common good of this country, it works. If I may possibly misquote in trying to quote an old saying, "A nation divided amongst itself will surely fall."

So, the fact that the top 2% wealthiest people in the world own half of the wealth, that about 25,000 people PER DAY die of starvation, and where there are 22 ongoing wars...that our system is really ok?

 

[TheLastMohican]

So, the fact that the top 2% wealthiest people in the world own half of the wealth, that about 25,000 people PER DAY die of starvation, and where there are 22 ongoing wars...that our system is really ok?

I'm confused. You were saying that all this is capitalism's fault, but then you're talking about the world as a whole.

 

[just me]

I'm confused. You were saying that all this is capitalism's fault, but then you're talking about the world as a whole.

I also thought you spoke of the American government...

 

[Shai Gar]

Why is it that what men 330 years ago wrote is taken as such an authority for resolving this now? I think it's more relevant if it is right or wrong, and for the time as it is now.

Better a document written 330 years ago, than a document written 2000 years ago.

 

[TheLastMohican]

Better a document written 330 years ago, than a document written 2000 years ago.

False choice much? :tongue:

 

[Duty]

I'm confused. You were saying that all this is capitalism's fault, but then you're talking about the world as a whole.

I also thought you spoke of the American government...

Who is the country pretty much running the show right now? Capitalism is the way of the world's most dominant economic power...and it effects everyone. The wealthy people of this country, who own pissloads of resources, are at the root of the problems of the world...as they horde their resources to themselves so they can make more money. They are allowed to be corrupt by how our system is setup. We say it's ok for them to do many of the things they do...it's just "how business goes."

The economic system of the US has a direct influence on the world. The way it is set up is disgusting, as the richer peoples of this world, under the laws of their country, are allowed to STOMP THE SHIT out of the poorer peoples of the world, and society even thinks most of their behaviors are just "the way it goes."

I'll comment more later, have to catch my ride.

 

[Shai Gar]

I'm working on a document that's better than the US Constitution, basing it off the napoleonic and us ones, along with several forward thinking parts.

but i think best working with others, and i'm working on it by myself since anyone else i ask either adds bullshit jokes, or wanders off never to talk about it again. so it'll take a few years.

 

[just me]

As a child, I was told to watch out for the iron; don't touch it: it's hot. I reached my finger right over there while my Mother was standing there folding something and stuck my finger on that iron. I do not remember the pain but the lesson was memorable through the pain. Guess when I was confronted with a "don't" as a child, it seemed a learning experience forthcoming I looked forward to. This is part of the reason I cling to Christian morals based on two things: love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind; and love your neighbor as yourself. Wow! I can't just touch an iron and understand that one. There is no negativity to confront. This is something new to me, so how will I deal with it? What it did was it gave me something to base things on other than experience or "don'ts".
The first obstacle I had to overcome was loving myself. I felt loving my neighbor as myself was no good, as I should surely love him more than that.
It did take others with experience to help me to learn to love myself.
Experiencing life with no guidelines or outside help might be enlightening. I chose to learn things from a normalcy I saw in others rather than excelling in education. to be cont'd
I see raising a child as an attempt in learning, as both the parent and the child learn together. Experience is a great teacher, reminding me of many things I learned the hard way. I always was told one must learn for oneself, but some people need guidance and boundaries of sorts. Parents in large cities do not allow young children free reign in where they go and when they go. Allowing one to experience self is an interesting concept, but peer pressure has such a great influence on normalcy. There are special children with special capabilities that may never be found should someone not help to look for those abilities. Many musicians worldwide are gifted from youth and there is no telling how many are never known because there was no instrument to bring them to their gift. Listening to children sing or play music with expertice and talent is a gift in itself. They wanted me to play a trumpet and I simply refused. Imagine practicing with THAT.
They should have offered something else but did not, as I was most likely viewed a rebel of sorts though I was thinking of others. We cannot even control which teachers our children will be influenced by and how.....most of the time.
Allowing a child to learn morals on their own is a grand thought, but I would want to be there mostly in their younger years to help them acknowledge their experiences if I could. That is not always possible. I must think further on the upbringing of children based on the thought of morals and ethics.