Student loans: House votes to claw back pandemic forbearance and debt relief

[SlowUpTake]

 

[Faye]

Some time ago I received an email saying I was eligible for student loan relief. Its depressing to see that it wont be happening but not surprising.

 

[Darkly Detached]

Atp with the unbearable and unmanageable costs of living for a reasonable level of lifestyle, repayment of loans, having no default and "a good credit" still doesn't get you much in life, so if you can't afford to pay them back, don't even bother. The vast majority of people are already priced out of being able to buy homes, put down payments on homes or even qualify for semi-decent rentals, so what's even the point of not defaulting on student loans? They've already gotten most people to a point where they have nothing to gain from paying back, and it's not like children at 18 even really understand or know what loans mean and how interest repayments work. Most people who took loans only pay interest so their loan doesn't even decrease for decades at a time, or won't decrease for decades.

If you've managed to secure a decent living already, I would say just default, or pay the absolute bare minimum and forget about being debt free. There's really no point. These people have created an unsustainable system and let capitalism eat itself. Why should you all keep paying for their fucking yachts and private islands?

I had student loans and I defaulted right after. Luckily I had the opportunity to escape the system entirely so eventually they had no choice but to call bad debt on my loans and they're no longer in the system. I have 0 credit, but honestly I'm 40+ and have created a life without needing credit at all. I know that's not possible for the vast majority of people, but the more we establish credit, the less we have for ourselves. My lifestyle can't be replicated by most people, but don't fall into the trap of believing that you'll ever be debt free. They're not going to let that happen.

America's future is a "rental" economy where they're already preparing to ensure that Gen Z can never buy homes and will only rent spaces for the rest of their lives. Think about how they've turned most games into licence based "live services". That's what they're planning to do through student loans and pricing everyone out of being able to buy a home or even get a mortgage.

 

[Darkly Detached]

Because many of the oppressed are seemingly lost inside a hit or a mental health crisis of some sort. Which of the oppressed can stand up for themselves when they barely have the strength for their daily existence nor do they know what to stand for exactly? Even the schools in the areas with issues are shutting down. It's not going to be as easy as a revolution. That will likely result to more losses. The biggest profit earners need to be intent at making a difference or capitalism is going to implode on their faces. If the income disparity continues to be top heavy, it is not unlikely for there to be unrest but it will not be a revolution. It will be the beginning of failed states. Nobody wants that but it would be interesting how a leading democratic country would curtail that kind of failure.

Decentralization of control means there is nothing to revolt against. In the past, there was a king, or a group of nobles and you knew who controlled wealth.
Right now wealth is dispersed amongst mega corporations and shareholders. Many of the shareholders are the middle class and when the invest they basically hand over their control over to mega corporations who bundle shareholder ownership into their own control.
Most of us don't even know the names of the thousands of actual decision makers let alone know who to bring down.
We all pretend that governments have power and think that changing a government will shift the balance of power, but ultimately people have handed over their power to a decentralized system that simply runs itself with very visible controllers of policy, but we don't know who they exactly are. The government is made up of puppets on both sides and there's so many actual policy makers behind the scenes that we don't even know who's actually in control anymore. How many people are controlling what systems and where to even begin in terms of a direct line of attack. There's no primary controllers and we all like to pretend that a handful of billionnaires control everything, when in reality it's a large group of investment firms that are simply running on a system that we're all continuously contributing to running ourselves.
You have no head to cut. There can be no revolution. It's all an archaic pipe dream of heroes vs villians .. but with the way capitalism has shaped itself now most of us are unknowingly part of keeping capitalism alive.

 

[aeon]

Atp with the unbearable and unmanageable costs of living for a reasonable level of lifestyle, repayment of loans, having no default and "a good credit" still doesn't get you much in life, so if you can't afford to pay them back, don't even bother. The vast majority of people are already priced out of being able to buy homes, put down payments on homes or even qualify for semi-decent rentals, so what's even the point of not defaulting on student loans? They've already gotten most people to a point where they have nothing to gain from paying back, and it's not like children at 18 even really understand or know what loans mean and how interest repayments work. Most people who took loans only pay interest so their loan doesn't even decrease for decades at a time, or won't decrease for decades.

If you've managed to secure a decent living already, I would say just default, or pay the absolute bare minimum and forget about being debt free. There's really no point. These people have created an unsustainable system and let capitalism eat itself. Why should you all keep paying for their fucking yachts and private islands?

I had student loans and I defaulted right after. Luckily I had the opportunity to escape the system entirely so eventually they had no choice but to call bad debt on my loans and they're no longer in the system. I have 0 credit, but honestly I'm 40+ and have created a life without needing credit at all. I know that's not possible for the vast majority of people, but the more we establish credit, the less we have for ourselves. My lifestyle can't be replicated by most people, but don't fall into the trap of believing that you'll ever be debt free. They're not going to let that happen.

America's future is a "rental" economy where they're already preparing to ensure that Gen Z can never buy homes and will only rent spaces for the rest of their lives. Think about how they've turned most games into licence based "live services". That's what they're planning to do through student loans and pricing everyone out of being able to buy a home or even get a mortgage.

This. So much truth.

Nods,
Ian

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

Atp with the unbearable and unmanageable costs of living for a reasonable level of lifestyle, repayment of loans, having no default and "a good credit" still doesn't get you much in life, so if you can't afford to pay them back, don't even bother. The vast majority of people are already priced out of being able to buy homes, put down payments on homes or even qualify for semi-decent rentals, so what's even the point of not defaulting on student loans? They've already gotten most people to a point where they have nothing to gain from paying back, and it's not like children at 18 even really understand or know what loans mean and how interest repayments work. Most people who took loans only pay interest so their loan doesn't even decrease for decades at a time, or won't decrease for decades.

If you've managed to secure a decent living already, I would say just default, or pay the absolute bare minimum and forget about being debt free. There's really no point. These people have created an unsustainable system and let capitalism eat itself. Why should you all keep paying for their fucking yachts and private islands?

I had student loans and I defaulted right after. Luckily I had the opportunity to escape the system entirely so eventually they had no choice but to call bad debt on my loans and they're no longer in the system. I have 0 credit, but honestly I'm 40+ and have created a life without needing credit at all. I know that's not possible for the vast majority of people, but the more we establish credit, the less we have for ourselves. My lifestyle can't be replicated by most people, but don't fall into the trap of believing that you'll ever be debt free. They're not going to let that happen.

America's future is a "rental" economy where they're already preparing to ensure that Gen Z can never buy homes and will only rent spaces for the rest of their lives. Think about how they've turned most games into licence based "live services". That's what they're planning to do through student loans and pricing everyone out of being able to buy a home or even get a mortgage.

Can't help but think this system exists out of spite if it were not for the relentless blood sucking through the interest people are having to pay. Crap like this is why loan sharking for absolutely everything else is illegal. Gota love late stage capitalism and yes ultimately the systems will collapse and hopefully taking the elites down with them.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

Decentralization of control means there is nothing to revolt against. In the past, there was a king, or a group of nobles and you knew who controlled wealth.
Right now wealth is dispersed amongst mega corporations and shareholders. Many of the shareholders are the middle class and when the invest they basically hand over their control over to mega corporations who bundle shareholder ownership into their own control.
Most of us don't even know the names of the thousands of actual decision makers let alone know who to bring down.
We all pretend that governments have power and think that changing a government will shift the balance of power, but ultimately people have handed over their power to a decentralized system that simply runs itself with very visible controllers of policy, but we don't know who they exactly are. The government is made up of puppets on both sides and there's so many actual policy makers behind the scenes that we don't even know who's actually in control anymore. How many people are controlling what systems and where to even begin in terms of a direct line of attack. There's no primary controllers and we all like to pretend that a handful of billionnaires control everything, when in reality it's a large group of investment firms that are simply running on a system that we're all continuously contributing to running ourselves.
You have no head to cut. There can be no revolution. It's all an archaic pipe dream of heroes vs villians .. but with the way capitalism has shaped itself now most of us are unknowingly part of keeping capitalism alive.

The systems themselves are something even when those at the top never mind the managerial classes are not normally vulnerable to push back. Without slaves there can be no plantation.

 

[Asa]

This student loan system didn't exist the way it is now until Gen X entered college. The student loan system under Boomers allowed people to walk away from these loans unpenalized. Credit scores, as they are known and used now, didn't exist until 1989, either, so the first generation hit by those was also Gen X. (Credit scores and establishing credit have existed since the 50s, but weren't implemented as they exist now until 89.)
Other financially parasitic practices seeped in as well. All of this was implemented by a generation that didn't suffer the same rules and consequences.


Every time someone looks at your credit score, the score decreases, and your interest rate for your potential loan will rise. This included you (if you check your own score) and any bank where you're applying for a loan. (You get one free view I believe yearly.) When they check your credit, they will count their viewing and charge you a higher interest rate because they #$%^&* looked at your credit. When we got our mortgages, I didn't even look at my credit scores.

Also, you're considered 'high risk' and a liability if you pay off your credit cards every month instead of owing money that allows them to charge interest and make more off you. This can increase your chances of being dropped by your card company and negatively affect your ability to get a new card.


It isn't just student loans. The whole system is rigged.

As for housing... housing is so competitive now that IF you can afford to buy a house and IF you get a loan, you'll be outbid by people paying cash. If your offer is accepted, you can't have an inspection (which is used to lower the cost of the house and also delays the sale.) If you insist, your offer will be declined. This means houses are sold with major hidden structural issues, termite damage, broken furnaces, and wells, etc, that will cost homeowners thousands, and courts side with the seller because the house was sold "as is." It's a disaster.

 

[philostam]

America's future is a "rental" economy where they're already preparing to ensure that Gen Z can never buy homes and will only rent spaces for the rest of their lives. Think about how they've turned most games into licence based "live services". That's what they're planning to do through student loans and pricing everyone out of being able to buy a home or even get a mortgage.

I don't believe that's the "plan". I believe that the system adapts itself to the median voter. So if the median voter in the US is a boomer with a house, then rising housing prices was a good policy.
Of course it's all a ponzi scheme but I absolutely don't believe that Gen Z and Millennials will take it (the vision that you describe). Once the median voter changes, the "system" will change too. And no, more communism is not the change we need.

Although 1917 style revolution would probably be immensely popular with the youth today. Seizing property of the rich etc etc.

You Americans need to get boomers out of the office first!

 

[Darkly Detached]

I don't believe that's the "plan". I believe that the system adapts itself to the median voter. So if the median voter in the US is a boomer with a house, then rising housing prices was a good policy.
Of course it's all a ponzi scheme but I absolutely don't believe that Gen Z and Millennials will take it (the vision that you describe). Once the median voter changes, the "system" will change too. And no, more communism is not the change we need.

Although 1917 style revolution would probably be immensely popular with the youth today. Seizing property of the rich etc etc.

You Americans need to get boomers out of the office first!

Communism of the 40s-70s doesn't work anywhere in a vacuum unless there's similar support structures, or at least communism supportive populations globally since we live in a global village. No country can have communism in isolation because of competing interests on all sides so what we can hope for is a move towards reasonable financial policies that benefit the majority and bills of rights that uphold the rights of the minorities. The big problem is America's Constitution is seen as progressive, or is forced to interpreted as progressive while it has always been a center right and far right supportive document.
The US needs to get rid of the boomers *and* develop a Bill of Rights for universal application that cannot be tampered with by rogue Justices ... the likes of which we're seeing now. America is proving how their system works and it works to uphold conservative rights through an archaic document that can be interpreted to support fascist rights infringements.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

Communism of the 40s-70s doesn't work anywhere in a vacuum unless there's similar support structures, or at least communism supportive populations globally since we live in a global village. No country can have communism in isolation because of competing interests on all sides so what we can hope for is a move towards reasonable financial policies that benefit the majority and bills of rights that uphold the rights of the minorities. The big problem is America's Constitution is seen as progressive, or is forced to interpreted as progressive while it has always been a center right and far right supportive document.
The US needs to get rid of the boomers *and* develop a Bill of Rights for universal application that cannot be tampered with by rogue Justices ... the likes of which we're seeing now. America is proving how their system works and it works to uphold conservative rights through an archaic document that can be interpreted to support fascist rights infringements.

Agree and somewhat disagree, Communism isn't a viable system and we're all well the vast majority are living through why Capitalism isn't viable either. Society really does need to develop a more reasonable and balanced system that doesn't rob the working classes of their quality of life while giving room for self determination otherwise back into hell again. I honestly see both ends of the political spectrum contributing to the overall decline of this civilization be it in their own way while a large part of the population doesn't get much say having to go along with it anyway living/existing with the mess while trying to just live normal. The ideologies of the left and the right are honestly very limiting with neither having balance while at the worst are like religion being all or nothing along with the tribalism to match.

 

[Darkly Detached]

I don't believe that's the "plan". I believe that the system adapts itself to the median voter. So if the median voter in the US is a boomer with a house, then rising housing prices was a good policy.
Of course it's all a ponzi scheme but I absolutely don't believe that Gen Z and Millennials will take it (the vision that you describe). Once the median voter changes, the "system" will change too. And no, more communism is not the change we need.

Although 1917 style revolution would probably be immensely popular with the youth today. Seizing property of the rich etc etc.

You Americans need to get boomers out of the office first!

The propaganda for a rent only future has literally hit the TVs here. There's several articles and fake news stories about this targeting Gen Z heavily. Some of us older folk who've experienced other forms of similar propaganda through our lives are picking up on it.

I just hope Gen Z remains as wise as it is right now.

There's also a simultaneous push to force people into "Tiny Homes" (rebranded Trailer Park/Mobile Home) which will recreate the entire Trailer Park scumlords all over the country for the new generation as well.

 

[philostam]

The propaganda for a rent only future has literally hit the TVs here. There's several articles and fake news stories about this targeting Gen Z heavily. Some of us older folk who've experienced other forms of similar propaganda through our lives are picking up on it.

I just hope Gen Z remains as wise as it is right now.

There's also a simultaneous push to force people into "Tiny Homes" (rebranded Trailer Park/Mobile Home) which will recreate the entire Trailer Park scumlords all over the country for the new generation as well.

The biggest problem in the world, by far, is money printing that causes desirable assets to go up. We monetized real estate because no one wants to hold melding ice cubes that are fiat currencies, backed and constrained by nothing. From the perspective of investors and the rich it's completely rational to swap dollars, euro, yen etc for desirable assets. The rich are profiting because the governments and central banks are printing, it's that simple.

I don't blame capitalism and the rich, I blame Keynesianism and mainstream economics.
Capitalism is a big word and it went trough at least 5 different phases in the last 200 years. What we see now has barely anything in common with capitalism. How can it have, when the price of money is being manipulated. That's no free market.

 

[BXM]

I can appreciate both sides of the argument.

That said, I will admit I have no (direct) skin in the game.

I also appreciate that people’s ignorance was taken advantage of. Promises were made which could not be guaranteed.

Of course, nothing in life ensures shifting into glide mode.

The propaganda and pressures were unrelenting. Both hope- and fear-based. So many said yes, and only a few saw what might result.

But they could not foresee the rug being pulled out from under everyone. No one could.

It’s a mess, that is for sure. Mess, as in, no easy answer. No answer period.

Wealth extraction always comes with a bill, and it is necessarily ugly.

It will be paid. The only question is by whom?

Ugh,
Ian

I think there should be a huge protest that focuses on how much money goes to our government, federal agencies and to other places in this system. If we shine a light on capitalism and it’s flaws- the cost of education could lower. Example, people are still paying off loans from nursing school, law school, etc., that prevent them from buying a house, having kids, and doing other things they should have been doing earlier in life. During these times, how is that fair?

There’s crazy amounts of money going to higher positions and, most of the time, for useless things. I bet if we pull up the transactions from NASA and how much they’ve been funded over the years, it would be strong evidence for people to realize that our money is being played with. Nonetheless, there are plenty of more people that are taking our money- don’t even get me started with taxes..

 

[just me]

While I understand the frustrations, there are numerous issues I will not get into where it takes experience to deal with.
Russia and China having drills along Alaska's waters? Putin not content with what he has? It goes way deeper than that. Tens of thousands of refugees crossing into the USA while Covid is still active. (Now I have it and am isolated.) Airline strikes where people were fired and replaced years ago. It's OK for everyone else, but now they want us out of the Middle East. What will the costs be even thinking about it?

Old laws, huh? How about the old wars and costs upon the people? I'm not buying into all said here. I still eat where I want as time permits and if we are both well. It took me a lifetime to deal with debt. We get so busy trying to make ends meet. The biggest problem I face right now is the lack of understanding. That may partially be infj related, but it is almost impossible to be understood when there are no people listening. We listen to what our pleasures are, but offer no solutions to any of the problems that exist. Caution: it may take a lifetime to actually help. After Covid, I see few masks around. We forget so quickly. People destroying full warehouses worth of imported products baffles me. We always want the fastest, cheapest way out.

An old shrimper once said, "The shortest way home may not be the fastest way home." quoted

There are obstacles many do not see, though they must be respected for safe passage.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]