Kavalan
Has risen
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Duke lacrosse 2006
Sexism is both ways but how it effects them generally depends on who is on the short end
Thank you for being sexist
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Duke lacrosse 2006
Sexism is both ways but how it effects them generally depends on who is on the short end
- MBTI
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I was joking; I don't believe in gender roles, though society attributes these more 'masculine' traits, each person has both masculine and feminine 'considered' traits.
A lot of the things you hear me say about those topics are exaggerations, like in a recent thread where I explicitly told someone I was a man, hence the beard.
On my own path
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Personally I am very sick and tired of all the sexism and sexist stereotypes in the world. Personally I do not see how someone could actually discriminate based on sex or gender; at the end of the day we are all human and everyone is an individual.
I do agree that culture and "memes" have a lot to do with it. I also think that some people engage in sexism to feel better about themselves.
I do agree that culture and "memes" have a lot to do with it. I also think that some people engage in sexism to feel better about themselves.
- MBTI
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I think that what is the most troubling aspect of sexism is not really the sexism itself.
What bothers me is that sexism is deeply routed in the world of assumptions, and assumptions that are posed as fact rather than opinions or guesses really bothers me.
I don't like the idea the people typically think men are this way and women are that way even if they say 'not all men' or 'not all women'.
I don't think that we should look at people at their gender but on an individual level, so for me, justifying that most men and most women are a certain way due to hormones and such really irks me.
It's bothersome to think that people really think they can generalize a person's individual behavior, thoughts, or feelings. I am taken at the core when people speak opinions they have on gender behavior, or human behavior in general, and truly dearly believe the assumptions they have made.
Instead of looking at every situation with a fresh, clean perspective, they take old advice or thoughts and re-use it.
This saddens me.
This is why sexism saddens me.
What bothers me is that sexism is deeply routed in the world of assumptions, and assumptions that are posed as fact rather than opinions or guesses really bothers me.
I don't like the idea the people typically think men are this way and women are that way even if they say 'not all men' or 'not all women'.
I don't think that we should look at people at their gender but on an individual level, so for me, justifying that most men and most women are a certain way due to hormones and such really irks me.
It's bothersome to think that people really think they can generalize a person's individual behavior, thoughts, or feelings. I am taken at the core when people speak opinions they have on gender behavior, or human behavior in general, and truly dearly believe the assumptions they have made.
Instead of looking at every situation with a fresh, clean perspective, they take old advice or thoughts and re-use it.
This saddens me.
This is why sexism saddens me.
- MBTI
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I don't think sexism is principally about perceptions of each sex's abilities/strengths. That is what feminists say sexism is about.
Sexism arises from most people's innability to interact with other people with complete indifference to their sex. This is because sex is directly connected one of the three basic biological functions (nutrition, growth, reproduction), two of which cannot easily be ignored.
To think workers/managers can be indifferent about the sex of their co-workers is as much a stretch of the imagination as thinking that workers will be indifferent to the quality of coffee served in the office.
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- MBTI
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It's not really about strengths/ or abilities though that disturbs me.
It's really just the fact that people make assumptions on how each gender is, acts, thinks, etc. and the generalizations which is saddening to me because people aren't looking on an individual level. I believe we are talking about the same thing, perhaps.
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I think most sexism is below the fully conscious level - ie. it is not about assumptions, but about gut reactions. Rationalisations of gut reactions are too random and diverse to say there is a single kind of assumption.
I think sexism is basically a result of our species having sexes and certain autonomic responses which occur when the sexes interract. ie. it is not a malicious or biggoted thing.
However, I am all for people being more conscious of their autonomic responses and de-sexualising professional interractions.
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I think a lot of it is brainwashed or cultured into us. We're trained to believe it is a socially acceptable fact so even if it is disproven we still believe it.
This happens with a lot of other things.
Like a lot of people have difficulties switching to a vegan diet because the foods they grew up with that are familiar they no longer eat and the new foods they try just taste foreign and unappealing. It doesn't mean that vegan food is inherently gross, it's just that people have been trained to eat and like certain things.
I believe, just like with a diet change, it is possible to re-train our brain and thinking. It is actually possible to re-train subconscious thoughts, because subconscious thoughts eventually manifest as conscious thoughts and if we correct the conscious thoughts we have when he think them then it will slowly trickle to the subconscious, in theory at least.
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Is it necessary to modify the subconscious? Modifying behaviour, through a greater consciousness of subconscious influences seems healthier - but I wouldn't stake my life on it.
GaiaGraha
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I think MBTI (T and F) makes a really good point on how there are groupings of people, and it shows how being emotional or logical is based on your personality, not your gender. People are individuals, but they can be grouped, but grouping them based on genitalia is just taking the easiest (and mostly incorrect) route.
Sexism pisses me off (probably more than anything), not only because I am always irritated when people make incorrect assumptions and act like they are facts when they are just ill-informed opinions, but also because sexism is a huge cause of violence against women, in all it's forms.
I'd also like to point out the case of Intersex, where people are not entirely male OR female. 1 in 200 people are Intersex, and 1 in 2000 people are born with ambiguous genitalia. Some theorists deny the sex/gender binary and say there are up to 6 genders. So how can we put all people into 2 groups, if some people don't fit into either?
Sexism pisses me off (probably more than anything), not only because I am always irritated when people make incorrect assumptions and act like they are facts when they are just ill-informed opinions, but also because sexism is a huge cause of violence against women, in all it's forms.
I'd also like to point out the case of Intersex, where people are not entirely male OR female. 1 in 200 people are Intersex, and 1 in 2000 people are born with ambiguous genitalia. Some theorists deny the sex/gender binary and say there are up to 6 genders. So how can we put all people into 2 groups, if some people don't fit into either?
- MBTI
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For me it is. I don't speak for anyone but me.
Just, due to the fact that I seem to naturally dislike this way of thinking so much, I would personally invest time in training myself to think the way I want to rather than the way I have been programmed to think via family, friends, environment, etc since birth.
I would want to think things that are actually true to what I believe rather than what has just developed there from consuming media and living in a society that thinks opposite of what I do.
acd
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Whaaat? I have not heard of this but it is interesting. You should start a thread on it.
bullinthesky
Newbie
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I think the topic of sexism is in some ways overrated. The working world in North America at least, is far less interested in gender and more interested in money.
I think assumptions are more often a result of stupidity than sexism. And I would also add that when there is a low level of communication, more misunderstandings and ignorance occurs. For progress there has to be more open dialogue, both ways, and hopefully without judgment. But that's not always going to happen.
It's ultimately biology, evolution, and survival that dictates current gender roles (even if it's now changing more). So today's values still exist within an evolutionary context.
I grew up having mostly female teachers, and they bashed men often. I never had a male teacher bash women. I never experienced that. Then in university, there are women's studies, women's issues, women's rights. Never a course on men. So opening the dialogue to include and understand everyone is important for progress. In the meantime, all the media is going to do, is capitalize on whatever the values are of the day.
I think assumptions are more often a result of stupidity than sexism. And I would also add that when there is a low level of communication, more misunderstandings and ignorance occurs. For progress there has to be more open dialogue, both ways, and hopefully without judgment. But that's not always going to happen.
It's ultimately biology, evolution, and survival that dictates current gender roles (even if it's now changing more). So today's values still exist within an evolutionary context.
I grew up having mostly female teachers, and they bashed men often. I never had a male teacher bash women. I never experienced that. Then in university, there are women's studies, women's issues, women's rights. Never a course on men. So opening the dialogue to include and understand everyone is important for progress. In the meantime, all the media is going to do, is capitalize on whatever the values are of the day.
- MBTI
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Do you see how that's sexism? That's what I am talking about. I am not talking about sexism against females I'm talking about sexism against males.
acd
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How can you talk about sexism about males without talking about sexism to females???
It's all interdependant. Sexism exists because of a Patriarchy. Liberate women, do away with gender stereotyping and roles, and men are liberated from the roles they've caged themselves in as a result of dominating women.
It's all interdependant. Sexism exists because of a Patriarchy. Liberate women, do away with gender stereotyping and roles, and men are liberated from the roles they've caged themselves in as a result of dominating women.
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True, whenever one says better, worse, faster, slower, brigher, duller, etc. it is a comparative statement. When such terms are used in regard to one sex, it is saying something about the opposite sex.
In fact, to say that either sex is more prone to being sexist is a highly sexist statement.
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bullinthesky
Newbie
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Well I define sexism as the belief that one sex is superior to the other.
I don't think my definition of sexism occurs as often as we think it does. With the example I posted regarding my female teachers, I don't think they genuinely believed women were superior to men. So I don't believe they were sexist. They were simply ignorant. They didn't understand men, and made little effort to understand men. To me, making little effort to understand something so important is a result of a lazy mind, not a sexist mind.
So I think my distinction is important because the word "sexism" often brings a lot of zealous judgment with it. It carries with it the idea that one person is the "aggressor" and the other is a "helpless victim." That one person is "good" the other "evil." That kind of thinking needs to stop. The vast majority of our problems don't even fall under these categories.
The real problem between the sexes is a profound lack of understanding of the other half. Solving these problems requires less judgment, and more open dialogue. We can't have open dialogue if we're constantly bringing accusations, dogma, ideology, etc, into it. And in my opinion, the word sexism brings a lot of that baggage with it.
On a side note, one person who is worth listening to on these topics is Warren Farrell. I like him because he's a man who made a real effort to understand women and support their rights, while also supporting a male perspective as well. I think he has a rational, balanced perspective on some important issues.
http://www.menweb.org/svofarre.htm
I don't think my definition of sexism occurs as often as we think it does. With the example I posted regarding my female teachers, I don't think they genuinely believed women were superior to men. So I don't believe they were sexist. They were simply ignorant. They didn't understand men, and made little effort to understand men. To me, making little effort to understand something so important is a result of a lazy mind, not a sexist mind.
So I think my distinction is important because the word "sexism" often brings a lot of zealous judgment with it. It carries with it the idea that one person is the "aggressor" and the other is a "helpless victim." That one person is "good" the other "evil." That kind of thinking needs to stop. The vast majority of our problems don't even fall under these categories.
The real problem between the sexes is a profound lack of understanding of the other half. Solving these problems requires less judgment, and more open dialogue. We can't have open dialogue if we're constantly bringing accusations, dogma, ideology, etc, into it. And in my opinion, the word sexism brings a lot of that baggage with it.
On a side note, one person who is worth listening to on these topics is Warren Farrell. I like him because he's a man who made a real effort to understand women and support their rights, while also supporting a male perspective as well. I think he has a rational, balanced perspective on some important issues.
http://www.menweb.org/svofarre.htm