The Amazing Atheist

  • Thread starter Thread starter Shai Gar
  • Start date Start date
I prefer reasoned logic with evidence that doesn't care about emotions or beliefs.
 
Good luck with that. Let me know how it works. :P
 
Shai Gar said:
I prefer reasoned logic with evidence that doesn't care about emotions or beliefs.
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From experience I've learned that is a great way to be practical but an ineffective way to be a leader or persuader.
 
No, that's only the way to convince ME of something... I use rhetoric and sophistry to convince others.
 
I believe we were talking about harshness of presentation (i.e. verbal abuse as a tactic), however. So, it's just dandy that you present facts in a clinical and non-obtrusive manner, but that's sort of...hmm...not the same? Unless I misunderstand, and you're actually shouting at people. Which is rude. I don't know anyone who likes for someone to yell at them (at least, not in the course of a disagreement).

Also, if it "doesn't care about emotions or beliefs," beliefs being the operative term, what's the point of the argument? Usually when I bother arguing about something, it's to change a person's perspective/beliefs regarding the topic of dissension.

Either way, the guy in the videos is a jerk. He makes some valid points, but I don't want to listen to him based solely on the fact that his presentation is patronizing and abusive. If someone talked to me this way in real life, I wouldn't even dignify it with a response, I would, in fact, walk away. Someone arrogant enough to assert that anyone who disagrees with them must simply be unintelligent is clearly either (actually) very insecure or deluded.
 
youhemmein said:
I believe we were talking about harshness of presentation (i.e. verbal abuse as a tactic), however. So, it's just dandy that you present facts in a clinical and non-obtrusive manner, but that's sort of...hmm...not the same? Unless I misunderstand, and you're actually shouting at people. Which is rude. I don't know anyone who likes for someone to yell at them (at least, not in the course of a disagreement).

Also, if it "doesn't care about emotions or beliefs," beliefs being the operative term, what's the point of the argument? Usually when I bother arguing about something, it's to change a person's perspective/beliefs regarding the topic of dissension.

Either way, the guy in the videos is a jerk. He makes some valid points, but I don't want to listen to him based solely on the fact that his presentation is patronizing and abusive. If someone talked to me this way in real life, I wouldn't even dignify it with a response, I would, in fact, walk away. Someone arrogant enough to assert that anyone who disagrees with them must simply be unintelligent is clearly either (actually) very insecure or deluded.
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Most people find a clinical statement of facts, completely overriding their belief system to be highly offensive. They're morons.
 
Shai Gar said:
No, that's only the way to convince ME of something... I use rhetoric and sophistry to convince others.
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Actually, from observing the INFJs on the forum, I've decided their natural leadership comes from their nurturing tendencies. Rather than logic, rhetoric, or sophistry, the art of INFJ leadership seems to be a mutual interest in the growth and welfare of their fellow human beings.
 
Yes, but Shai isn't an INFJ, by any stretch of the imagination.

And Shai, most people of any real intelligence are capable of polite disagreement without taking offense.
 
youhemmein said:
Yes, but Shai isn't an INFJ, by any stretch of the imagination.
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Clearly.

However, as I study leadership and the art of persuasion, I'm being drawn more and more to the realization that while people have little control over little else in their lives, they do have control over their own thoughts. Regardless of whether those thoughts are actually in their interest or in the interest of others, people are naturally resistant to ideas that challenge their established way of thinking because it's perceived as a challenge to the only power they truly have over their own lives. As such, I've determined that a true leader/persuader knows not to try to change people but to help them grow and develop towards a mutual understanding.

There is a lot of give and take in such a process, and as Shai and I both know all too well, INFJs are simply uninterested in the kinds of discussion which involve mostly give.

As such, I'm trying to design a form of active listening debate which can be utilized to span the bridge between NT and NF communication.
 
:( he's so rude and insensitive... poor grandpa from mcdonald's .. that's mean
 
Amazing? Or Just Unconventional?

Frequently the only amazing thing about atheists is their "I'm the smartest thing in the universe" comportment. Other than that, they are just like most any other person with their own set of beliefs that they generally stick to both zealously and dogmatically. Atheist, simply and ironically, are just the most unconventional religious zealots.
 
It depends what you're into I guess. Thunderf00t is great if you're into general science The Amazing Atheist is good if you just want to be entertained. And really most of the AA videos are more social commentary than trying to push some atheistic agenda. But yeah, I think they inhabit two distinctive niches rather than some all encompassing atheistic youtube niche.
 
dMP2 said:
Frequently the only amazing thing about atheists is their "I'm the smartest thing in the universe" comportment. Other than that, they are just like most any other person with their own set of beliefs that they generally stick to both zealously and dogmatically. Atheist, simply and ironically, are just the most unconventional religious zealots.
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So true and its annoying.:m142:
 
Arg said:
It depends what you're into I guess. Thunderf00t is great if you're into general science The Amazing Atheist is good if you just want to be entertained. And really most of the AA videos are more social commentary than trying to push some atheistic agenda. But yeah, I think they inhabit two distinctive niches rather than some all encompassing atheistic youtube niche.
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Quite true. (I wish more people realized this.) As TAA himself has acknowledged, Thunderf00t is the best at picking apart arguments and refuting them with thoroughness. He does not try to put on a performance or use a lot of humor; he just digs up a lot of facts and figures to debunk whatever has been presented.
TAA, by contrast, has a very different style of "ownage", in which a lot of time is devoted to putting a humorous spin on the arguments and insults. Often half the things he says are not really serious, but those who are familiar with him understand the difference.

If you're looking for a happy medium, I'd suggest Tooltime9901. He's grossly under-subscribed.
 
Shai Gar said:
[YOUTUBE]I-7z4aGZz08[/YOUTUBE]

This guy is awesome. This thread is for AmazingAtheist videos.
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Made me laugh, but I shy away from anyone that claims either side of the political spectrum, they are both crooks. I haven't watched it enough to see what his actual stances are. But for straight humor? AWESOME!

And yea.. He is very aggressive, not passive aggressive.
 
Shai Gar said:
I doubt very much he was anywhere near serious. Taking himself seriously, zooming in and out with his camera and saying "Damn I'm hot"?

No. There's such a thing as poetic licence and the freedom of the storyteller.

Billy: You're a walking headdesk.
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He has conviction without being arrogant, and I REALLY like conviction, even if I don't agree with what they say all the time. If I did get the sense he was arrogant, I wouldn't have liked watching it.

He has courage enough to be himself and put it online for anyone to talk shit about him. And he KNOWS people are going to talk shit about him. I think that says quite a bit about a person.
 
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