The case for Zionism

[Sir]

There were 2,902 victims of Anti-Black hate crimes in 2009 compared to 1,132 victims of Anti-Jewish hate crimes in the United States.

2 victims of Anti-Black hate crimes were murdered. 0 victims of Anti-Jewish hate crimes were murdered.

Source: http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2009/jurisdiction.html

Does that mean everyone who is black should move to Africa?

Like the others said, I'm not anti-semitic but I do think there is a better way to go about this.

 

[the]

We have maintained a connection to the land for thousands of years.

I was hoping you might expand on this. In what way have the Jews maintained a connection through the past 1000 years?

 

[Brodskizzle]

I was hoping you might expand on this. In what way have the Jews maintained a connection through the past 1000 years?

Every Passover Seder ends with "Next year in Jerusalem." Every year in synagogue on the anniversary of the destruction of the temple we read the Book of Lamentations, which a series of nostalgic poems about the Kingdom of Judea. We pray towards Jerusalem. Also, it's just this innate desire to head home.

 

[the]

Every Passover Seder ends with "Next year in Jerusalem." Every year in synagogue on the anniversary of the destruction of the temple we read the Book of Lamentations, which a series of nostalgic poems about the Kingdom of Judea. We pray towards Jerusalem. Also, it's just this innate desire to head home.

Thanks for your reply, I guess I was looking for something that laid a little more claim to the area. Something beyond thoughts and nostalgia. I kind of built up in my mind that there was going to be some whammy that I would be like: Oh they really do have a connection. I mean if you thought about my yard like that I wouldnt give you my property, you know what I mean?

 

[Billy]

Thanks for your reply, I guess I was looking for something that laid a little more claim to the area. Something beyond thoughts and nostalgia. I kind of built up in my mind that there was going to be some whammy that I would be like: Oh they really do have a connection. I mean if you thought about my yard like that I wouldnt give you my property, you know what I mean?

Yeah really... nostalgia heh... is that why the BROWN muslims there cant stand to see all the WHITE jews show up and "reclaim" the land?

 

[Brodskizzle]

Yeah really... nostalgia heh... is that why the BROWN muslims there cant stand to see all the WHITE jews show up and "reclaim" the land?

A majority of Israeli Jews are just as brown as the Palestinians. Sorry for being pedantic. Going back to UBERROGO, it's home. Plain and simple. Not many places on earth are sympathetic to us, and far fewer were in the '40's, but our home is.

 

[Soulful]

I'm not familiar with Jewish culture or beliefs, so something I wonder is whether many Jews do plan to return to the homeland eventually. I.e. to what degree is this simply a part of tradition that is laced with nostalgia versus actual intent? And if it is *the* home, as in a true home, what does this make the current nation of residence, whatever it happens to be?

 

[Billy]

A majority of Israeli Jews are just as brown as the Palestinians. Sorry for being pedantic. Going back to UBERROGO, it's home. Plain and simple. Not many places on earth are sympathetic to us, and far fewer were in the '40's, but our home is.

For some reason I doubt that, especially since most of Israel was populated by American and European Jews.

 

[Brodskizzle]

For some reason I doubt that, especially since most of Israel was populated by American and European Jews.

Actually, it's true. The Mizrahis (Jews from the Middle East and North Africa) are a majority, since their countries of origin are much less hospitable to Judaism than the European ones.

 

[the]

Actually, it's true. The Mizrahis (Jews from the Middle East and North Africa) are a majority, since their countries of origin are much less hospitable to Judaism than the European ones.

I have heard that Israel is a genetic melting pot because of all the countries with their fingers in the cookie jar. Basically the theory went that every nation either through political needs, economic ventures, or just plain tourism... every nation has dropped their "DNA" in a lovely Jewess. Combine that with the fact that everyone has to join the military you have all these beautiful and fit brown people in Israel.

 

[Billy]

Actually, it's true. The Mizrahis (Jews from the Middle East and North Africa) are a majority, since their countries of origin are much less hospitable to Judaism than the European ones.

So to be clear, there's all these people from NOT Palestine coming in and taking land from the Palestinians who are the people who have been there for 100s of generations but its ok because of nostalgia? What if I moved into your house and took over the master bedroom and kitchen and living room and left you with the guest room because my great great great grandparents once lived there?

 

[Brodskizzle]

So to be clear, there's all these people from NOT Palestine coming in and taking land from the Palestinians who are the people who have been there for 100s of generations but its ok because of nostalgia? What if I moved into your house and took over the master bedroom and kitchen and living room and left you with the guest room because my great great great grandparents once lived there?

I dunno, the guest rooms have all the good tourist attractions . But in all honesty, the Jews are there, the Palestinians are there, why can't they just suck it up and live together? The Belgians do it. The South Africans finally started doing it.

 

[Billy]

I dunno, the guest rooms have all the good tourist attractions . But in all honesty, the Jews are there, the Palestinians are there, why can't they just suck it up and live together? The Belgians do it. The South Africans finally started doing it.

I guess because its not really equal or balanced as far as governing power goes. I think what you're saying is that the Muslims should just suck it up and take it.

 

[Brodskizzle]

I guess because its not really equal or balanced as far as governing power goes. I think what you're saying is that the Muslims should just suck it up and take it.

No, I'm saying they should grow up and work together.

 

[Billy]

No, I'm saying they should grow up and work together.

Easy enough to say when you're people were the invaders.

 

[the]

Easy enough to say when you're people were the invaders.

What do you think should be done with the descendants of the "new Jews" to the region? Just send them back to their parents original countries?

I think they should fight it out, Jew v Palestinian and rest of the world should stay out of it.

 

[Billy]

What do you think should be done with the descendants of the "new Jews" to the region? Just send them back to their parents original countries?

I think they should fight it out, Jew v Palestinian and rest of the world should stay out of it.

I have no problem with them fighting it out, but the US has to withdraw aid 1st to make it even remotely fair.

 

[Cornerstone]

Easy enough to say when you're people were the invaders.

They bought the land. From Arabs. Over a period of about 60/70 years.

If the greedy landowning class didn't stick up for the peasants (when have they ever in any nation at any time?) then that is not the fault of the Jews/Zionists.

Besides, if anything, it is the fault of the British. They brought about the collapse of the Ottoman Empire to coincide with the end of WW1 and promised it to two different groups. Then pissed off at the end of the Second World War and left them to it. The British had been writing History before it happened for a long time - very little happens by accident or without someone funding 'rebel' groups that go on to 'act independently'. It just backfired this time.

I'm pretty sure the Jews returning to Israel is a sign of the times, though. And they're at about 48% of the world population. When a majority of Jews are in Israel again shit is going to go down!

 

[muir]

They bought the land. From Arabs. Over a period of about 60/70 years.

If the greedy landowning class didn't stick up for the peasants (when have they ever in any nation at any time?) then that is not the fault of the Jews/Zionists.

Besides, if anything, it is the fault of the British. They brought about the collapse of the Ottoman Empire to coincide with the end of WW1 and promised it to two different groups. Then pissed off at the end of the Second World War and left them to it. The British had been writing History before it happened for a long time - very little happens by accident or without someone funding 'rebel' groups that go on to 'act independently'. It just backfired this time.

I'm pretty sure the Jews returning to Israel is a sign of the times, though. And they're at about 48% of the world population. When a majority of Jews are in Israel again shit is going to go down!

Yeah the British did draw up straight line national boundaries with rulers on maps as their empire disintegrated which often did not take into account the realities on the ground. for example the partition of India which saw a million people die in the subsequent confusion and sectarian violence

But the British are intimately linked with Israel

Many of the powerful zionists who were working behind the scenes to make things happen were operating out of Britain. For example the Rothschilds have a branch of their family and banking empire in Britain

british financier Nathanial Rothschild recently tried to sue the newspaper the Daily Mail after it accused him of being a 'puppet master' using his influence to secure business deals. He lost the case probably because it was so laughable that he would even try and deny this! Here's a reuters article about it:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/02/10/uk-britain-rothschild-idUKTRE81917020120210

Prince William recently married a woman called Kate Middleton whose mother was called Goldsmith

I'm not sure if she is related to the Goldsmith banking dynasty who were intermarried with the Rothschilds

Anyway Queen Victoria used to believe that her family was descended from the house of david. The Scottish royal Stewart line definately believed it was descended from the house of david...but thats another story!

There are a number of conspiracy theories that have been around for a long time that claim that many of the people pulling the strings behind the scenes are not real jews but edomites. These theories say the real jews have been persecuted and scattered throughout history. These theories say that the current leaders of Israel are edomites

I personally don't care who someone is ethnically.....i see the divide as a divide between workers and capitalist class.

regardless of who is running what and which secret societies are doing what i think the workers of all beliefs need to recognise that we are the dooers...we are the people who make the economy. The elites just sit on our backs.

I would love to see working jews, christians, muslims, atheists etc all build a society without elites where everyone could worship god (or not) how they want in peace.....but that can only happen without elites

There has been more protests in Israel recently against government austerity measures and i wish the people luck

 

[GracieRuth]

I was hoping you might expand on this. In what way have the Jews maintained a connection through the past 1000 years?

Adding to what Brodskizzle said...
First, there have always been SOME Jews living there. Secondly, our prayers and liturgy have always included the assumed return to Israel. We can't eat a meal without praying for Jerusalem in the Grace After Meals. And it doesn't stop there. We also pray regularly for the rebuilding of the Temple. An Orthodox Jew will tell you that every Jew has a religious OBLIGATION to move to Israel if at all possible.

Here is a translation of the tenth section and fourteenth section of the Amidah, or Standing Prayer, prayed daily:

Sound the great shofar for our freedom,
raise the ensign to gather our exiles,
and gather us from the four corners of the earth.
Blessed are you, O Lord, who gathers the dispersed of his people Israel.

Return in mercy to Jerusalem your city, and dwell in it as you have promised.
Rebuild it soon in our day as an eternal structure,
and quickly set up in it the throne of David.
Blessed are you, O Lord, who rebuilds Jerusalem.