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Ok. Do you believe in the existence of a religious based god and if so, which religion?
The death of God
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Ok. Do you believe in the existence of a religious based god and if so, which religion?
Lark
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I'm a practicing Roman Catholic. Why is this important for you to know?
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Thats actually a really good question. I think its because your original statement that started the thread did not really seem to say why, the saying "God is dead" was importance to you enough to bring it up in the first place. In other words, why the statement caused you to want to discuss it.
That and I am a sucker for discussions on why\how people believe in such things.
Lark
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I wasnt discussing the topic because of being a roman catholic though, this is why I'm loath to start the whole labelling games during discussions, it actively closes the discussion down most of the time because if people read the right labels they think they know everything there is to know.
The reason I created the thread is because I read that in a book about existentialism once and thought it was an interesting talking point. I'm reading more about existentialism lately.
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So do you feel you would prefer related responses from those people who share the same faith as you or those who do not? Also, would I be able to ask you to watch a youtube video concerning faith and ask for your thoughts on it? Its about 10 minutes long.
Lark
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I dont mind who responds, all responses are good.
I bet I've seen the video before. There's like five youtube videos about faith which I'm referred to perpetually by athiests, not sure if this is what you're driving at but from experience I have my suspiscions.
I bet I've seen the video before. There's like five youtube videos about faith which I'm referred to perpetually by athiests, not sure if this is what you're driving at but from experience I have my suspiscions.
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You might already know the video then. Its called, "Dear believer why do you believe." From my perspective when I first saw it I thought it was the most amazing attempt I had ever seen to get people who seem inextricably bound to their one religion to understand the perspective of someone who does not share their faith. It was done in a highly respectful way etc.. So if you have not seen it I would ask you to watch it. Not because I am trying to convince you of anything one way or the other, just interested in knowing how a religious person would see it.
I am on the fence about religions. On the one hand I understand why people adopt religion into their lives. I understand what need it fills. On the other hand I chose at some point to live my life attempting to see nothing but the absolute truth in things. It is from this perspective religion greatly worries me, that I question if it s not ultimately a determent to humanity.
muir
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Minds are shaped by environment as well
Motivation can be very fickle. A person like hawkings bound to a wheel chair might have a higher degree of motivation to ponder on these issues than others
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Thats what I was contemplating.
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Awesome, and how would you know you were not insane for believing it. Yeah, I have struggled with that thought sometimes.
just me
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A Monk or a Prophet might have considerable time to see things with different eyes, too. I think in many, but not all, cases time has a lot to do with understanding. In most of today's culture, people have less and less time to dig deep and listen.
Solongo
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This is a very subjective view of God. That's interesting.
muir
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What if hawkins is looking too narrowly at things though?
What if the ancients were right...that our inner and outer worlds are intimately linked....that man is the microcosm of the cosmic macrocosm?
If we are living in a giant virtual reality simulator then how does our consciousness shape that?
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Humanity has achieved what it has achieved because of its need to understand. When the first human looked into the night sky or at the sun and thought, "Mungaba" 5 million years ago today known as "Why" our search for answers began. Um yes.... a bit of a joke there but the point should still be made.
It is in our nature to ask questions. Hawkings is undoubtedly thinking too narrowly, no one person can see all aspects or sides of a thing. Still he is able to think at a higher level than most humans and the perspective he offers reflects that.
If we are living in a virtual reality machine (a real scientific theory that holds up to the obvious scrutiny) some say it doesnt matter. Your life is still your life so what difference does it make if you are living in a fake universe or a real one? My response to this is that I dislike greatly the implications for free will this has. There have been times in my life where I have tried to change things and it seems like I am PUT back always on the same path. Like I am on a set of rails and cant get off. The world seems to be this way as well. I can see obvious fallacy in thinking from large groups and its almost like people have blinders on to it even though its happening right in front of their noises. I think, figuring out if we are part of a computer program gives us the chance of changing the program... Do I think that if I am right this will happen in my life time? No. But I refuse to give up none the less. Its like this prickling in the back of my head, there's just something wrong about this whole setup.
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To OP
I think the reference "Death of God" is older than being alluded to:
Christians hold that God died on the Cross, way back.
I think the reference "Death of God" is older than being alluded to:
Christians hold that God died on the Cross, way back.
muir
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There are definately forces that railroad people. The system is designed to keep people in certain narrow bands of perception and behaviour
For example it is no coincidence that the inland revenue tax collecting service was created the same year that the central bank was.
The central bank controls the flow of credit and sets the interest rates and the tax can also be raised or lowered...so effectively the central planenrs are able to keep everyone working hard all the time and never able to get off the treadmill...its a diabolically clever system
Concerning the imlications of our relaity being a virtual reality.....once again the central planners who control money and tax and therefore to a large extent people slives ALSO control the flows of informatio to people through the education system and the mainstream media so they build peoples perceptions of reality and thereby their perceptions of what is possible
So for example a gem found in australia recently is forcing a re-write of history as its now likely life could have existed on earth much longer than we have always been told: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...ier-than-anyone-thought-possible-9148675.html
But we are going to have to re-write pretty much everyhting because they have been lying to us about pretty much everything!
So what happens if tomorrow everyone realsies that they are not what they think they are? What if tomorrow they realise that they are a stream of consciousness which is using the body-mind computer as an interface with this virtual reality and that all streams of consciousness flow back to the same source outside the virtual reality cosmic internet?
What happens when everyone realsies that they are not only participating in the virtual relaity but is also helping to co-create it because the virtual reality is the sum of our collective imagination?
What happens then is that people say: ''screw the central bankers and the tax man...they don't own me...i am infinate consciousness having an experience here and if i want a better reality then we need to all join together to imagine a better reality
When you see it this way it makes sense of everything they do...all the negative news, all the fear mongering, all the wars, the divisions etc because they want to keep our collective imaginings in a state of fear and division so that they can rule over us
So the implications are.....infinate
muir
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Jesus represents man or spirit, the cross represents matter; so the two combined represent spirit trapped in matter
The cross is also a box unfolded...a cube within which are the 3 dimensions that make up the realm of matter
Some perceive a sex magick aspect to the symbol as well. jesus being a death and rebirth solar god and the cross being the tau which is a phallic symbol. Often jesus will be represented by occult orders as a rose which obviously is female sex symbol: the rosy cross
Jesus emerging from the cave is the sun rising over the horizon. Even the boulder rolling clear of the door is also kind of solar in the sense of the sun crossing the sky
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The difference in what you believe and what I believe is that you seem to believe....wait... Let me start this way. You seem to believe that there are people on this planet who are in control of what they are doing and are keeping the larger mass from figuring it out. Well, yes obviously. Congress alone could be used for this example. Why is it that some of the most mentally challenged people are in control of people far more intelligent than they?
However, what am getting at is a program that supersedes people on this earth, in this universe altogether. That though things are potentially being controlled at the level you suggest, it in turn is being controlled on a much larger scale. If we found out tomorrow that a computer programmer created our world, would be then call the programmer God" Or would we say that God created that programmer so that he could create us?
The rails of which I speak are more aligned with fate in that certain parameters have been put in place in our universe to gather data on how things would turn out when given certain circumstances. What would have happened if JFK have never been assassinated. What would have happen if this star in this galaxy had never exploded. What would have happen if this person had never lived or this person had? What would have happened if Abraham Lincoln lived in Europe rather than America?
Imagine living your life over and over and over at the whim of someone running a program repeatedly changing minute details to see how things turn out. Never being able to get up and walk out. Sounds a bit like hell to me but maybe thats just me. Anyway, I think this is one of the reasons I am trying to figure out what is really going on.
Btw the obvious answer to your question is that society would collapse. But I ask you if it does, do you honestly think that out of all the possibilities in that scenario something better than what we have now will take its place? Think about it. Do you think the reasonable, logical and intelligent people will be the ones who have a say on how everything is rebuilt? No. The crazy power hungry people who are willing to die to get what they want, to have control will. It is human nature and human nature will never change
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I really believe you give people WAY too much credit. Yes, some are crafty, manipulative and devious but people like that rarely last long around other people like that. For them to group and work together and pull off conspiracies as you suggest...well like I said, I think you give people in general far too much credit.