The Higher Education Bubble

[Lea]

University is worth it. For the sake of learning, but also economically.

they don't have a monopoly on learning well they never did it was just nice to think that

it was comforting, oh i'm at uni, i'm at school i am per definition learning

that's bs

 

[bickelz]

What I *think* the argument with lawyers was, was similar to what I mentioned earlier in the thread. Why have a profession whose job it is to create laws that need another person in that same profession to translate. Shouldn't the laws the average person is expected to abide by be written in a language we can all understand without 6-8 years of college? If that were the case though, there wouldn't be a need for lawyers! They're a self-propagating group that only exists to ensure that more like them will continue to exist.

I think even if our laws were written plainly, everything would still be confusing as fuck. Where would you even start to look if you needed to look up a law? And what about constitutional issues? The US constitution is very open ended and is meant to be open to interpretation. It takes an expert on the Constitution to really be able to explain it even though there really isn't much there.

Law is really, really complicated and I don't think that Congress is in the business of making laws so that other lawyers will have work. That's kind of weird. It makes sense, in a way. But if you think about the subject matter of the laws, it doesn't really make sense that they're just making more work for themselves so they can get paid.

 

[Lea]

i just noticed that contradicted myself

so here is my explanation

we all wanted to believe that the education system had a monopoly on knowledge

so in a way it did that was the reality

but i hope that we all stop believing that

The Castle Builders / La Dispute

Forget all the fears you’ve kept about love and sex and death and faith,
Erased, or swinging sweet from around her neck and between her breasts.
Let every lonely body finally break it’s fear of flesh and say,
“How strange it must’ve been back when we shook at the sight of sweat.”
Let our worries wander out of like water streaming from a spring,
And sing of all the things our heads have failed to ruin yet.
There’s so much they have failed to ruin yet.
Bright as lightning, loud as thunder,
We’ll move all the hurt aside to let love sustain our passions,
And move up and onward.
We are not our losses, we are only the extent to which we love.
So build a home for your family, and build a castle for your friends.
Now set their beds with sheets and blankets, keep them safe until the end.
I’ve felt the damage and burn from the fallout.
My love failed but theirs prevailed.
My friends, I’m only flesh and bone,
But I won’t let you die alone.
So leave our hearts at the foot of the mountain.
Let our burdens be locked in the stone.
If you will help me roll it upward,
I won’t let you die alone.
I see a beauty springing upward from the earth and from out our hearts.
For all the bad that seems to plague us, I swear to you there’s good.
They say that death is not a problem, it’s a promise,
I can only say for sure that when it makes your bed I’ll kiss your head “Goodnight.”
So speak of all the love we lost, and what it cost us,
Left us beg our breath to stop but we kept on and
We were strong. We stayed bright as lightning,
We sang loud as thunder, we moved ever forward.
We are not our failures. We are love.
​

http://loveyourchaos.tumblr.com/tagged/music

just loved this sorry not really got to do with the subject other than to say

today the internet is a place where everybody is exchanging their creations their ideas

it will become eventually obsolete till then...

we have the pleasure and the pain of self discovery which is the ultimate source of knowledge

everthing in moderation and know they self - are the English translation of two ancient Greek maxims carved on the pediment of the temple of Apollo at Delphi, Greece.

 

[bickelz]

i just noticed that contradicted myself

so here is my explanation

we all wanted to believe that the education system had a monopoly on knowledge

so in a way it did that was the reality

but i hope that we all stop believing that

Um, I'm not sure exactly what you're saying. There are ways to learn things without going to college; you just need to know the right books to read.

But saying that the Education system (both public and private) has a monopoly on education is like saying all of the auto makers have a monopoly. A monopoly is where one firm is the only provider of the service or good, not where a bunch of firms control it.

today the internet is a place where everybody is exchanging their creations their ideas

it will become eventually obsolete till then...

The internet will become obsolete?

The internet is a place for sharing ideas but not all of them are good ones. They're usually not subject to professional peer review; you don't know who is publishing them. A good example of this is the Occupy Wall St movement. It's created buzz on the internet and has caused blogs to pop up but that doesn't mean the blogs are correct.

Just because you read an opinion on the internet and go to college doesn't mean you get to say you know better because you're "educated". Higher education is great for some people but some people just don't know what they're talking about no matter how much education. One of the smartest people I know didn't go to college and he does very well financially.

Idk but school isn't for everybody. I know it seems pretentious but some of the people I see in class or hear speak, just aren't all there. I just don't really understand when things come out of their mouth.

 

[technics]

they don't have a monopoly on learning well they never did it was just nice to think that

I wasn't saying that university has a monopoly on learning, but that learning as such is a sufficient reason to go to university. And that higher income is an added incentive to do so.

There are ways to learn things without going to college; you just need to know the right books to read.

True, but that won't get you a higher income. Gatekeepers.

 

[bickelz]

I wasn't saying that university has a monopoly on learning, but that learning as such is a sufficient reason to go to university. And that higher income is an added incentive to do so.

True, but that won't get you a higher income. Gatekeepers.

It depends on what your major is. Majoring in gender studies doesn't equal an automatically higher income.

Majoring in chemical engineering will get you paid and starting a business can potentially make you richer than any degree will.

And college isn't meant to be job training; you shouldn't look at it as a gateway to a higher paying job. It's about learning to handle complex ideas, see all sides of issues and enriching your life. A degree is a way to get your foot in the door but experience in a field is always better.

 

[technics]

It depends on what your major is. Majoring in gender studies doesn't equal an automatically higher income. And college isn't meant to be job training; you shouldn't look at it as a gateway to a higher paying job.

The calculation goes further than that. It involves, as already mentioned, higher income and becoming educated. And as side-effects of that: You have time and space for thinking (critically), handling ideas, immersing in intuition etc.

And one argument that most here didn't mention: During your study (even the humanities, or even more so in the humanities), you will be thrown into a world populated mainly by Intuitives, in the case of the humanities mostly NFs. And after graduation you will remain in a world of Intuitives (unless you do a vocational degree or something like law). And concerning job prospects: That depends where you are. In the US, liberal arts degrees are considered worthless. In Europe, you won't rise unless you're educated to see the "big picture".

But a degree in the humanities does get you a job. Your salary won't be high, but you'll be among your own kind, doing things that suit you. And you can always study social sciences, slightly higher chances of getting a job, average pay, lots of Intuitives. Or economics, that's the only "big picture" degree that gets you a job with above-average income.

 

[detectivepope]

If you see university as an investment, you have missed the point of university. It is to improve yourself not a meal ticket to a job, I have a degree which others deem useless in this climate but it was grandiose experience and lesson that otherwise would have never happened. I am a different man for the time there, however I have experienced a complete lack of education to see this contrast fully.
My opinion is if you are going, to get up the ladder of society don't bother, as I was there with a bunch of winy bitches who didn't even do well for their so called plight. I also believe academia is for those who are interested, not time wasting ego pleasers.

 

[bickelz]

The calculation goes further than that. It involves, as already mentioned, higher income and becoming educated. And as side-effects of that: You have time and space for thinking (critically), handling ideas, immersing in intuition etc.

And one argument that most here didn't mention: During your study (even the humanities, or even more so in the humanities), you will be thrown into a world populated mainly by Intuitives, in the case of the humanities mostly NFs. And after graduation you will remain in a world of Intuitives (unless you do a vocational degree or something like law). And concerning job prospects: That depends where you are. In the US, liberal arts degrees are considered worthless. In Europe, you won't rise unless you're educated to see the "big picture".

But a degree in the humanities does get you a job. Your salary won't be high, but you'll be among your own kind, doing things that suit you. And you can always study social sciences, slightly higher chances of getting a job, average pay, lots of Intuitives. Or economics, that's the only "big picture" degree that gets you a job with above-average income.

Seeing the big picture of one thing doesn't mean you automatically get other things, or are able to turn that into something valuable in the workplace. It's about getting things done, not just "seeing" the big picture.

I don't really think that being around other intuitives is a good reason for studying humanities. There are intuitives everywhere.

The problem with a humanities degree is that they're not really in demand unless its a government job. I'm studying Financial Economics (I haven't done any of the finance yet) which is a solid degree because its a business degree as well as a social science degree.

In the end, I just view it as unhealthy to think that Degree = Job = Higher Pay. That's not the purpose of college and not always the case. Not to mention it just makes everybody feel entitled to stuff they're not entitled to economically.

 

[the]

Having an entreprenuerial (sp) spirit, self motivation, and diligence is more important than a degree. A lot of people go to school and expect a job handed to them and that is more so the problem. All the stuff you learn to do in clubs is pretty important from what I am hearing, things like putting together parties (biz and personal), organizing events, things you learn through volunteering, marketing your school club, learning to meet people and remember their names, selling things/selling your talents, etc. I dont get classes on those skills: its sink or swim.

 

[bickelz]

Having an entreprenuerial (sp) spirit, self motivation, and diligence is more important than a degree. A lot of people go to school and expect a job handed to them and that is more so the problem. All the stuff you learn to do in clubs is pretty important from what I am hearing, things like putting together parties (biz and personal), organizing events, things you learn through volunteering, marketing your school club, learning to meet people and remember their names, selling things/selling your talents, etc. I dont get classes on those skills: its sink or swim.

Agreed, even though I'm shit at all of those. Organizing stuff is always a good skill to have.

 

[technics]

It's about getting things done, not just "seeing" the big picture.

You will be unable to do the right thing unless you see the big picture.

In the end, I just view it as unhealthy to think that Degree = Job = Higher Pay. That's not the purpose of college and not always the case. Not to mention it just makes everybody feel entitled to stuff they're not entitled to economically.

You might view it as unhealthy, but it is a fact. And I think it's only natural that someone who has been trained in a field should be entitled to have a job in that field, as opposed to someone who didn't undergo the same rigorous training.

 

[technics]

Having an entreprenuerial (sp) spirit, self motivation, and diligence is more important than a degree.

Okay, so I have three Master degrees (engineering, humanities and social sciences), good in organizing, networking, apparently self-motivated, diligent etc. What now? You can do those soft skills on different levels. A diplomat can also remember names, handle people etc. the way a PR person does, or a sales person. The difference is their education.

 

[bickelz]

You will be unable to do the right thing unless you see the big picture.

There is truth to this but it's not absolute. And not everybody needs college to see the big picture.

you might view it as unhealthy, but it is a fact. And I think it's only natural that someone who has been trained in a field should be entitled to have a job in that field, as opposed to someone who didn't undergo the same rigorous training.

College =/= job training

That is a huge mistake to make. Someone who has more experience in the field qualifies for the job more but is not entitled to it. This isn't a monarchy.

 

[the]

Okay, so I have three Master degrees (engineering, humanities and social sciences), good in organizing, networking, apparently self-motivated, diligent etc. What now? You can do those soft skills on different levels. A diplomat can also remember names, handle people etc. the way a PR person does, or a sales person. The difference is their education.

Taking things out of context is great for trolling. I do it all the time.

3 Masters degrees? Ur doing it wrong.