[PUG] The Left's Difficulty Accepting Election/Referendum Results

[54192&#cmy]

Nice to see that the new Administration can’t be bought by any lobbying groups.
Also, this article is all kinds of factually wrong.
Fear-mongering of the “big government” threat, so he could get paid by "big tobacco” instead.
My Dad died from esophageal adenocarcinoma related to smoking, so I am personally insulted that anyone would ever write such sell-out bullshit.
I reckon the price of a carton of cigarettes best be comin down ya’ll!

The Great American Smoke Out
By Mike Pence​

In the coming weeks, Americans are going to be treated with the worst kind of Washington-speak regarding the tobacco legislation currently being considered by the Congress and Attorney Generals from forty different states.

We will hear about the scourge of tobacco and the resultant premature deaths.
We will hear about how this phalanx of government elates has suddenly grown a conscience after decades of subsidizing the product which, we are now told, "kills millions of Americans each year".

Time for a quick reality check.
Despite the hysteria from the political class and the media, smoking doesn't kill.

(Really Mike Pence? Are you sure you aren’t pulling that statistic out of your ass?)

In fact, 2 out of every three smokers does not die from a smoking related illness and 9 out of ten smokers do not contract lung cancer.
This is not to say that smoking is good for you.... news flash: smoking is not good for you.
(News flash: You are a man-douche and are lying)

If you are reading this article through the blue haze of cigarette smoke you should quit.
The relevant question is, what is more harmful to the nation, second hand smoke or back handed big government disguised in do-gooder healthcare rhetoric.

The tobacco settlement is not only about big taxes it's about big government.
Under the current Senate version, the deal would require the creation of 17 new government bureaucracies to manage the tax windfall described above.

But it is also about big government on a much more profound scale, namely, government big enough to protect us from ourselves.
Even a conservative like me would support government big enough to protect us from foreign threats and threats to our domestic tranquility but the tobacco deal goes to the next level.

Government big enough to protect us from our own stubborn wills.
And a government of such plenary power, once conceived will hardly stop at tobacco.

Surely the scourge of fatty foods and their attendant cost to the health care economy bears some consideration.
How about the role of caffeine in fomenting greater stress in the lives of working Americans?

Don't get me started about the dangers of sports utility vehicles!

Those of you who find the tobacco deal acceptable should be warned as you sit, reading this magazine, sipping a cup of hot coffee with a hamburger on your mind for lunch.

A government big enough to go after smokers is big enough to go after you.

(Dum-dum-dumb!)

Skarekrow. I'm a little confused by you. You have devil listed under your name. Would you please explain the meaning behind this.

View attachment 30169
I like my tobacco. Sorry for your loss.

 

[Skarekrow]

Skarekrow. I'm a little confused by you. You have devil listed under your name. Would you please explain the meaning behind this.

View attachment 30169
I like my tobacco. Sorry for your loss.

I enjoy playing devil’s advocate a good portion of the time...if not to prove a point, to at least try and get people to see things from another perspective and think critically.
But it’s also there to annoy and warn those who would try and shove their religious views upon me that it’s not going to work.
I don’t worship satan or anything...I was raised Mormon for crying out loud...no smoking, no drinking, no sex, no caffeine, no rated R movies, no touching at church dances hahahaha.
It’s mainly there in my tagline to see who notices and what reaction they have to it.

Again...also sorry for the loss and injuring of your friends.

 

[Skarekrow]

@efromm

I used to smoke, but it was giving me asthma issues and certainly isn’t good for arthritic inflammation.
I quit about 3-4 years ago when I was having the severe pain issues...Chantix worked great for me.

 

[54192&#cmy]

Reagan was a liar...Trump is a racist. ..
All with no proof whatsoever. No one takes you seriously. I would say "any more" but I dont know if they ever did. Destined to forever have the label uninformed and delusional. At least you can go to sleep every night embracing your own lies.

Sorry I really do try to not post anything in relation to the insane stuff you post but occasionally it gets so deep I have to.

I'm sorry bro but Reagan lied. Iran contra. Plus all the cocaine the CIA brought in. The war on drugs was to drive up the price on the drugs so they could make more profit. Plus steal the drug dealers assets. It was a win win both ways for them. Plus a whole bunch of new prisoners to make a buck off of.
The federal savings and loan scandal.
I know there is more I forgot but those two are the biggies.
Kennedy was the best shot at getting control and they killed him for his trouble.
As far as we know Kennedy was no angel but he was going to get us back on the gold standard. Which would have helped us immensely today.

I'm still in wait and see mode like always. People lie and change their minds a lot so what one thinks and say today could change at anytime in the future.

 

[54192&#cmy]

I enjoy playing devil’s advocate a good portion of the time...if not to prove a point, to at least try and get people to see things from another perspective and think critically.
But it’s also there to annoy and warn those who would try and shove their religious views upon me that it’s not going to work.
I don’t worship satan or anything...I was raised Mormon for crying out loud...no smoking, no drinking, no sex, no caffeine, no rated R movies, no touching at church dances hahahaha.
It’s mainly there in my tagline to see who notices and what reaction they have to it.

Again...also sorry for the loss and injuring of your friends.

I think we covered this in the past but I was once Mormon tooo lol know all too well the rules. I started pipe tobacco in 2011. Don't do it all the time once a day or so. Can't stand cigs at all not even the smell.

 

[Skarekrow]

I think we covered this in the past but I was once Mormon tooo lol know all too well the rules. I started pipe tobacco in 2011. Don't do it all the time once a day or so. Can't stand cigs at all not even the smell.

Love the smell of pipe tobacco...it reminds me of Mr. McCutchenson my 5th grade teacher...you always could smell it on him and everyone knew who it was as the smoke would billow from the teacher’s lounge (dating myself there too).
(back when they could and would paddle your ass lol)

Honestly don’t know why I started to smoke...but it became a stress relief, if anything, an excuse to go outside away from everyone be it work or otherwise

They used to sell some specialty cigs called “Springwater” cigarettes that had a filter and everything but were filled with vanilla pipe tobacco...they stopped making them alas.

I just got a free offer in the mail from American Spirits go figure haha...

Now we are way off topic.

 

[54192&#cmy]

@efromm

I used to smoke, but it was giving me asthma issues and certainly isn’t good for arthritic inflammation.
I quit about 3-4 years ago when I was having the severe pain issues...Chantix worked great for me.

Since your claiming the devil I want to ask you something that comes to mind brother krow. By claiming devil how are you not associated with a demonic being that is against anything good? A being that at the very least wants to tear apart your body and separate your soul from heaven. What types of horrible things have been done in his name. All kinds of chaos and suffering he hath brought to mankind.
Many people could take offense to your using such a word to describe who you are. Or what your about.

Don't get mad because I don't believe in the devil. If there is a devil he is man walking this earth. Doing his daily deeds to his fellow man.

 

[Wyote]

 

[Skarekrow]

Since your claiming the devil I want to ask you something that comes to mind brother krow. By claiming devil how are you not associated with a demonic being that is against anything good? A being that at the very least wants to tear apart your body and separate your soul from heaven. What types of horrible things have been done in his name. All kinds of chaos and suffering he hath brought to mankind.
Many people could take offense to your using such a word to describe who you are. Or what your about.

Don't get mad because I don't believe in the devil. If there is a devil he is man walking this earth. Doing his daily deeds to his fellow man.

I’m not claiming The Devil...just a devil.
And we all have a little devil in us yes?
We cannot deny our Yin or our Yang.

I don’t believe in Hell...so I’m with you there kind of.
You know the word “Hell” was never actually in the Bible and that several words with differing meaning were combined into one word that has Norse mythology as it’s root word, which was then transformed into something scary with eternal damnation and pools of feces...etc.
Never was.
Sheol, Tartarus, Gehenna, Hades.
All became one word synonymous with evil and suffering.

Did you know where the word “Pandemonium” comes from?
It is, according to Blake I believe, the name of the castle in which Satan and his deamons reside in Hell.
But it breaks down to mean - All Deamons.
To put us back on topic, I think it fitting Trump should rename the White House as such.

 

[brightmoon]

Nope. Mr. Trump didn't start it. His political career was founded in the 1990s when he was going to run for president in the Reform Party. Could have been sooner than that, I'm not sure.

You're also discounting the people that voted for him because they didn't want to get into a nuclear war with Russia.

If Trump didn't start Birtherism who did? Please don't waste my time floating the lie that Hillary did, its been throughly disproved. He may have had some political aspirations (running for a fringe party) before he began promoting it but that's neither here nor there. Did anyone seriously believe that Hillary was going to start a nuclear war with Russia? Because she saw Putin for what he is, instead of pretending he is any friend of America.

Sorry you are numb to the idea of racism, there is really nothing I can do about that. I agree that harmony would be better served if we just pretended it doesn't exist. I am not prepared to do that.

You think the GOP has learned their lesson because of their recent success? Is success defined as excluding minorities. I agree the Democrats must reform themselves I believe they will. The success of Sanders is a hopeful sign and someone like him can and should rise up to challenge Trump.

As for the narcissistic rage some of that is the passion of youth, It will cool and hopefully be the fuel that powers an effective opposition.

 

[CindyLou]

If Trump didn't start Birtherism who did? Please don't waste my time floating the lie that Hillary did, its been throughly disproved. He may have had some political aspirations (running for a fringe party) before he began promoting it but that's neither here nor there. Did anyone seriously believe that Hillary was going to start a nuclear war with Russia? Because she saw Putin for what he is, instead of pretending he is any friend of America.

Sorry you are numb to the idea of racism, there is really nothing I can do about that. I agree that harmony would be better served if we just pretended it doesn't exist. I am not prepared to do that.

You think the GOP has learned their lesson because of their recent success? Is success defined as excluding minorities. I agree the Democrats must reform themselves I believe they will. The success of Sanders is a hopeful sign and someone like him can and should rise up to challenge Trump.

As for the narcissistic rage some of that is the passion of youth, It will cool and hopefully be the fuel that powers an effective opposition.

Hillary didn't start it, and Mr. Trump didn't start it. You don't have to pretend Russia is our friend but we don't have to antagonize them either, and yes there were people that seriously thought that. She was the war vote.

I'm not numb to the idea of racism, and that's not what I said. I'm numb to the left crying wolf over it. Basically, I'm numb to the left and anything they say at this point. When I start seeing something coming from them that is based in reality and not projection or collective delusion I'll change my tune. Right now I just can't take them seriously.

The Democrats can't bring another candidate like Hillary; they need a change candidate. The longer they point the fingers at the voters instead of themselves the longer it will take to pull the party together to reform to something decent.

No, that isn't what success is and that isn't what they've done.

 

[CogentPursuit]

When was Trump ever racist? Look at birtherism, the ideas that he founded his entire political career on. It was based on the idea that the first black president could not possibly be an American and that he HAD to a foreigner. Why was that? Because he was black and he needed to be discredited. Period.
.

There is little evidence, beyond that the president is black, that it was about race. There is a lot of evidence that it is about islamophobia. His Muslim heritage scares people, even though he isn't a muslim himself. I heard republicans speak in fear that the president was at best biased for muslims over americans and at worst sent by Islamic entities to help them win the wars. Phobia.

 

[sassafras]

No, sorry. Russia isn't our friend. The fact that Putin is becoming a hero for the alt-right scares the living crap out of me.

I wish people would stop thinking it was as simple as Trump + Putin = super friends sticking it to Soros or Soros + Clinton = liberty, freedom and equality for all and kicking Russia's ass. It's tempting to pick up the rhetoric of one side because it makes it all seem so neat and clean. It doesn't work that way.

The reality that a lot of people refuse to see is that this whole election fiasco is planned chaos. We're not arguing issues; we're set up to be arguing pre-bundled narratives carefully assembled and impossible to balance. Everything has a catch-22. People would straight line up behind issues and would probably resolve them just fine but feel constrained by affiliations and what they mean; what other policies they're supporting.

In an ideal world, we would disassemble the political parties as they are and create new ones by voting on issues. The party system as it is just ducking sucks

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I enjoy playing devil’s advocate a good portion of the time...if not to prove a point, to at least try and get people to see things from another perspective and think critically.
But it’s also there to annoy and warn those who would try and shove their religious views upon me that it’s not going to work.
I don’t worship satan or anything...I was raised Mormon for crying out loud...no smoking, no drinking, no sex, no caffeine, no rated R movies, no touching at church dances hahahaha.
It’s mainly there in my tagline to see who notices and what reaction they have to it.

Again...also sorry for the loss and injuring of your friends.

Sounds more like the Socrates role than the devil role.

 

[brightmoon]

I'm not numb to the idea of racism, and that's not what I said. I'm numb to the left crying wolf over it. Basically, I'm numb to the left and anything they say at this point. When I start seeing something coming from them that is based in reality and not projection or collective delusion I'll change my tune. Right now I just can't take them seriously

Does this also mean that you are numb to idea to the idea of African-American and other people of colour pointing out that racism does exist and is happening right now. I'm just trying to understand

 

[brightmoon]

There is little evidence, beyond that the president is black, that it was about race. There is a lot of evidence that it is about islamophobia. His Muslim heritage scares people, even though he isn't a muslim himself. I heard republicans speak in fear that the president was at best biased for muslims over americans and at worst sent by Islamic entities to help them win the wars. Phobia.

What other president was subjected to the kind of scrutiny about their heritage? Only the black one. We were told by Gingrich for example that you can only understand Obama if you "understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior." Whatever the hell that means.

 

[CindyLou]

Does this also mean that you are numb to idea to the idea of African-American and other people of colour pointing out that racism does exist and is happening right now. I'm just trying to understand

No, I wouldn't say that absolutely. It depends on the circumstance and who is communicating to me and where it's coming from. Anything coming from voices from the collective left I am numb to, yes because I have to be. I think it's the right thing to do right now. I can't take seriously removing sushi from college campuses because of cultural appropriation or a professor having to resign because they had the nerve to suggest that Halloween costumes shouldn't be banned. I can't take seriously the screams of people throwing rocks at cars and destroying property. I can't take seriously people being outraged over unintentional and benign day to day culture.

We all know the story about what happens to the boy that cries wolf. The villagers stopped showing up to help because they stopped believing him. I'm not listening to the boy anymore but that doesn't mean I don't care and I'm not listening to anyone.

 

[Skarekrow]

No, I wouldn't say that absolutely. It depends on the circumstance and who is communicating to me and where it's coming from. Anything coming from voices from the collective left I am numb to, yes because I have to be. I think it's the right thing to do right now. I can't take seriously removing sushi from college campuses because of cultural appropriation or a professor having to resign because they had the nerve to suggest that Halloween costumes shouldn't be banned. I can't take seriously the screams of people throwing rocks at cars and destroying property. I can't take seriously people being outraged over unintentional and benign day to day culture.

We all know the story about what happens to the boy that cries wolf. The villagers stopped showing up to help because they stopped believing him. I'm not listening to the boy anymore but that doesn't mean I don't care and I'm not listening to anyone.

I would have to agree with you on just about all points...and I am what you would call leaning left.
I missed what the deal was with the sushi, but I’m sure it was way too butthurt to read about.
Honestly, there is no excuse for violence and destruction of property...now, or at any time.
Having a campus “safe place” is sometimes a bit overboard...and some very sheltered young adults need to thicken their skin a bit.
There is a time and place for violence, and it’s for the protection of yourself or others who might be harmed.

What it the most irritating to me personally are the people who didn’t vote.
Okay....so we had two people who we probably would have been better off starting the primaries over without.
But you are voting for more than just two people...there are ballot initiatives, laws, Representatives, Senators, tax laws, school grants, etc. etc.

We’ll have to make do with Trump as far as I’m concerned, for the next four years let’s hope no really terrible shit goes down here or anywhere else in the world.
I don’t like the fact he is going to be Prez., and I will not be without criticism of the man, his team, and many of his policies if he indeed carries them out as he would like to...or the GOP would like him to

Statistically speaking, this country does have some serious racial divides and issues that seem to be ignored to a large extent by both sides.
Unarmed people are getting shot by police on video...like the social worker dude sitting on the ground with one of his group home teens, I’m sure you saw that one? I am sure that there are police shootings that are justified and necessary, it’s a difficult job with difficult split second decisions.
IMHO I think that militarizing our police force even more is going to create more contention.
I know you gotta match firepower with the bad guys...but we should also pay attention to what is taking place.

Young black males are shot more often than white counterparts, and not just black but all people of color have a crime rate between them and white folk that is negligible.
They are arrested more often for the same offenses as their white counterparts.
Found guilty more often for the same offenses.
Sentences longer for the same offenses.
They have shown in blind studies that people who have exactly the same experience on their resume for a job, but if the name sounds black or foreign, the “whiter” sounding name is chosen.
Even when given a choice between the same two people, only with the white guy having a felony...that person is picked over the more “racial” name even though that person would be a much wiser candidate.
Same goes for car loans, home loans, renting a car, apartment, etc.

Just so we can all understand why the other side might be upset...if the GOP and Alt-right groups fail to acknowledge that we have even some degree of institutionalized racism within our criminal justice system, but also reflected in other aspects of our society...one which they pay into just as much as the next guy/gal...then there is no possible significant change that can be addressed.

 

[CogentPursuit]

What other president was subjected to the kind of scrutiny about their heritage? Only the black one. We were told by Gingrich for example that you can only understand Obama if you "understand Kenyan, anti-colonial behavior." Whatever the hell that means.

This article below is what Gringrich seems to be referring to in Anti-Colonial behavior. He seems to be referring to a think most liberals call imperialism. It is odd that Gingrich would support American Nationalist Trump but then also deny other countries the right to defend their sovereignty and the right to prioritize their peoples needs over globalization, corporations, and imperialization.

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/pub...tation_of_Africa_s_land_and_people_5661.shtml

"Obama will feel a special connection and obligation to deal with the problems gripping the African continent."

The person who wrote this article kind of had the same idea but it was phrased differently.

 

[brightmoon]

No, I wouldn't say that absolutely. It depends on the circumstance and who is communicating to me and where it's coming from. Anything coming from voices from the collective left I am numb to, yes because I have to be. I think it's the right thing to do right now. I can't take seriously removing sushi from college campuses because of cultural appropriation or a professor having to resign because they had the nerve to suggest that Halloween costumes shouldn't be banned.

I hear the these stories about the terrors of "political correctness" all the time coming from college campuses. Like the actions of a few fringe college kids really impact on their lives. Personally I don't buy it and often the crusade against political correctness, means "I should be free to say what I want about whomever I want to say it" The justification I heard form Trump's hateful speech was "At least he says whats on his mind" Thats fine I guess as long as your freedom from political correctness isn't just a license to spread actual bigotry.

I am certain the mayor of Clay WV is complaining about political correctness right now