The Most Hated Family in America

[Pristinegirl]

and the most funny thing of it all is that they hate Jews but they preach from the old testament

don't they know that the old testament was written by Jews? How can you love the book but hate the authors????

Good point Morgan!!!

 

[Pristinegirl]

and the most funny thing of it all is that they hate Jews but they preach from the old testament

don't they know that the old testament was written by Jews? How can you love the book but hate the authors????

Good point Morgan!

 

[acd]

They hate Jews because Jews aren't Christians. It's that simple. Christians say the OT was preparing the world for the messiah.

WB thinks Jews should have converted back when Jesus was preaching, instead, they decided he wasn't the messiah because the prophesies regarding the messiah in their book did not coincide with the way Jesus represented himself.

The existence of Jews, in their minds, poses a threat to their beliefs, though they'd probably try to appear more noble about it and say their existence is like a slap in the face of their god.

 

[daydreamer]

Yet why is it that I so strongly feel its unacceptable to maliciously celebrate someones death like that and yet make the exception for Hitler?



Come on, Hitler was a human but NOT a decent one. And I dont even consider that an opinion.

You cannot compare one person to millions of soldiers!
Besides, this hate group's celebration for that 'god killed soldiers because of homosexuals in USA'... is COMPLETELY different to that of people celebrating the end of Hitler's reign.

I agree with you. It is frustrating to hear, especially someone being happy about another person's death. But, unfortunately, it's their right to do so and we can't stop them.

Great thread by the way.

 

[sassafras]

They hate Jews because Jews aren't Christians. It's that simple. Christians say the OT was preparing the world for the messiah.

WB thinks Jews should have converted back when Jesus was preaching, instead, they decided he wasn't the messiah because the prophesies regarding the messiah in their book did not coincide with the way Jesus represented himself.

The existence of Jews, in their minds, poses a threat to their beliefs, though they'd probably try to appear more noble about it and say their existence is like a slap in the face of their god.

Yup, yup. And to further elaborate:

Jesus was a Jew. He lived and practised the Jewish faith and adhered to its customs; He never questioned them. Nor did He ever claim that He was the Messiah (that's only Luke's Gospel, which was written a hundred years apart from Mark, Matthew and John and just about the time that Early Christianity was on its way).

Early Christian converts were encouraged to follow Jewish laws and traditions. Jesus never had any intention of starting a new religion, let alone seperating entirely from Judaism. It wasn't until Saul (Paul) came along, claimed he saw Jesus on the road to Damascus and that Jesus had instructed him to start converting the gentiles. Then Paul began to explore Jesus' teachings about forgiveness and developed the doctrine of Atonement that formally introduced the concept of Jesus' 'dying for our sins' and being 'born again into the Kingdom of God.' Coupled with the fact that Paul ended up dropping a lot of the Jewish laws that might discourage potential converts--such as circumscion-- you can see these as the beginnings of Christianity in a nutshell.

But overall, the problem with interpreting ancient texts like the Bible is that the culture and the way that people conveyed information is much different from the way we communicate today. Because it was a chiefly oral culture, metaphors and anecdotes were the best way to committ teachings to memory. Another thing was that they heavily relied on symbols and archetypes, some of which were mixed by the clash of culture, and some of which have lost their meanings over the last several centuries. Coupled with the fact that the Bible was compiled at different times, translated, and possibly even manipulated to meet various political ends, taking a text like this literally is just imbecilic ignorance to the complexity of our own history.

If you quote the Bible (or any sacrad text for that matter) without a regard for context, and expect that to speak for itself... Jesus kills a kitten.

 

[acd]

Yup, yup. And to further elaborate:

Jesus was a Jew. He lived and practised the Jewish faith and adhered to its customs; He never questioned them. Nor did He ever claim that He was the Messiah (that's only Luke's Gospel, which was written a hundred years apart from Mark, Matthew and John and just about the time that Early Christianity was on its way).

Early Christian converts were encouraged to follow Jewish laws and traditions. Jesus never had any intention of starting a new religion, let alone seperating entirely from Judaism. It wasn't until Saul (Paul) came along, claimed he saw Jesus on the road to Damascus and that Jesus had instructed him to start converting the gentiles. Then Paul began to explore Jesus' teachings about forgiveness and developed the doctrine of Atonement that formally introduced the concept of Jesus' 'dying for our sins' and being 'born again into the Kingdom of God.' Coupled with the fact that Paul ended up dropping a lot of the Jewish laws that might discourage potential converts--such as circumscion-- you can see these as the beginnings of Christianity in a nutshell.

But overall, the problem with interpreting ancient texts like the Bible is that the culture and the way that people conveyed information is much different from the way we communicate today. Because it was a chiefly oral culture, metaphors and anecdotes were the best way to committ teachings to memory. Another thing was that they heavily relied on symbols and archetypes, some of which were mixed by the clash of culture, and some of which have lost their meanings over the last several centuries. Coupled with the fact that the Bible was compiled at different times, translated, and possibly even manipulated to meet various political ends, taking a text like this literally is just imbecilic ignorance to the complexity of our own history.

If you quote the Bible (or any sacrad text for that matter) without a regard for context, and expect that to speak for itself... Jesus kills a kitten.

Then what exactly was he crucifed for, if not for claiming or implying and leading people to believe he was God?

http://www.slate.com/id/2214800/ I read this article, it makes sense. For claiming to be King of the Jews, he challenged Roman rule.. but his disciples weren't executed. You'd think that the leader of a subversive movement and his followers would be executed.

Maybe his actions and words threatened Jewish religious leaders who convinced Pilate to crucify him, and they figured his followers would disperse and fade away as soon as he died.

The Jews were expecting the messiah to come to earth and rule over them here, but Jesus preached that the Kingdom was not going to be on earth. (I believe was alluded to in the parables in Matthew 13 and 25. Sorry, had to reference the holy book.)

 

[Ophelia]

I believe that idiots should have their children taken away, but I think she has full right to be an idiot.

 

[daydreamer]

^ Agreed.

 

[bamf]

^^^ But the question is, besides insuring that her kinds will be complete whack jobs with extreme hatred towards groups of people, is she emotionally or physically abusive to them? It's a slippery slope seeing as their 'religion' is involved. As twisted as it is, she has the right to teach her children to hate and spew their words of hate.

 

[BenW]

The media gives these people what they want.

 

[drsolace]

^^^ But the question is, besides insuring that her kinds will be complete whack jobs with extreme hatred towards groups of people, is she emotionally or physically abusive to them? It's a slippery slope seeing as their 'religion' is involved. As twisted as it is, she has the right to teach her children to hate and spew their words of hate.

I've watched that full documentary; it doesn't seem like the kids are being physically abused, they seem to enjoy their lives. I'd say the brainwashing is emotional abuse, but they've been conditioned for so long it probably feels normal to them

 

[bamf]

I've watched that full documentary; it doesn't seem like the kids are being physically abused, they seem to enjoy their lives. I'd say the brainwashing is emotional abuse, but they've been conditioned for so long it probably feels normal to them

Yeah, I mean as sad as it is, these kids (from what I've seen, which admittedly is very little) seem happy. I mean, as insane as these people are, they could still be 'good' parents in aspects other than force feeding their hate to their kids and condemning them to a life of hate and bigotry. I'd think taking the kids away would end up doing them even more harm in the long run, psychologically.

 

[Blind Bandit]

And on one's stopping them from speaking their mind. But when this becomes trespassing, defamation of character, and disturbing the peace you've just crossed a new line.

Why soldiers as well? If they hate *everyone* and say the whole US is condemned, and that people worship the dead at the soldier's funerals, then why not go to every funeral in town? Why decide one group is more important to picket than another?

The hypocrisy this group shows is staggering. Plus, it just makes all Christians look bad.

I agree there is a limit to free speech. And some use the idea of free speech as a crutch. The sad thing is these people are so small and undevolped they couldn't fathom what it would be like to in the same situation.

Or there to stupid to realize what there actions are causing.

Yeah, I mean as sad as it is, these kids (from what I've seen, which admittedly is very little) seem happy. I mean, as insane as these people are, they could still be 'good' parents in aspects other than force feeding their hate to their kids and condemning them to a life of hate and bigotry. I'd think taking the kids away would end up doing them even more harm in the long run, psychologically.

Honestly anyone who force feeds such dribble to there children is not a good parent. Just becasue a child is happly ignorant dosen't mean there well as a human being.

I feel sorry for those poor kids. What a sad life they will live. And not even a chance for a different choice.

 

[YOYO]

Don't hate these people. Pity them. Forgive them. Laugh at them. Ridicule them perhaps. But don't hate them and get angry with them. You become like them if you do.

They are just ignorant retarded morons.

There will always be bigots like these, and there always has been.

The irony kicks in when we start to consider making their activities illegal.

Let them speak. The vast majority of people will see them for what they are.

So they might recruit a few more converts - so what ? The type of people who would join their crusade were / are probably heading down that kind of path anyway.

Supression is never the answer.

And as for Hitler...........He only became what he was because he was allowed to by cowardly European governments & the Germanic peoples.

Democracy allowed Hitler's ascendancy.

(If you allow a child total freedom and instill no rules or boundaries and pander to its every need & whim it will grow up to be a nasty little solipist).

And herein lies a dilema of democracy and free speech......when "we" vote these people into power WE are to blame. We are responsible for their actions.

It's why I have never voted. (apart from forum polls ....obviously)

 

[bamf]

Honestly anyone who force feeds such dribble to there children is not a good parent. Just becasue a child is happly ignorant dosen't mean there well as a human being.

I feel sorry for those poor kids. What a sad life they will live. And not even a chance for a different choice.

All parents force feed their views on their kids. Children are highly impressionable. Even if the parents don't sit down and tell their kids how to act or think, they model their behavior from their parents. The Westboro Baptist Church is teaching their kids an ideology (granted I think it's twisted and wrong) but everyone teaches their kids an ideology. You can't escape the fact that no matter what your views are, they are nothing more than that; they are an ideology and they are views.

It's horrible (in my opinion) that these kids are raised in such a way, that embraces hate, but the parents are free to do so. Someday the kids will be of age to question their parents. If the parents brainwashing works well enough, the kids will follow their parents ways but they will always have the choice to not follow the hate.

They aren't doing anything illegal, even if they are raising their kids in (what I believe to be) a horrible fashion.

 

[Shai Gar]

Yup, yup. And to further elaborate:

Jesus was a Jew. He lived and practised the Jewish faith and adhered to its customs; He never questioned them. Nor did He ever claim that He was the Messiah (that's only Luke's Gospel, which was written a hundred years apart from Mark, Matthew and John and just about the time that Early Christianity was on its way).

Early Christian converts were encouraged to follow Jewish laws and traditions. Jesus never had any intention of starting a new religion, let alone seperating entirely from Judaism. It wasn't until Saul (Paul) came along, claimed he saw Jesus on the road to Damascus and that Jesus had instructed him to start converting the gentiles. Then Paul began to explore Jesus' teachings about forgiveness and developed the doctrine of Atonement that formally introduced the concept of Jesus' 'dying for our sins' and being 'born again into the Kingdom of God.' Coupled with the fact that Paul ended up dropping a lot of the Jewish laws that might discourage potential converts--such as circumscion-- you can see these as the beginnings of Christianity in a nutshell.

But overall, the problem with interpreting ancient texts like the Bible is that the culture and the way that people conveyed information is much different from the way we communicate today. Because it was a chiefly oral culture, metaphors and anecdotes were the best way to committ teachings to memory. Another thing was that they heavily relied on symbols and archetypes, some of which were mixed by the clash of culture, and some of which have lost their meanings over the last several centuries. Coupled with the fact that the Bible was compiled at different times, translated, and possibly even manipulated to meet various political ends, taking a text like this literally is just imbecilic ignorance to the complexity of our own history.

If you quote the Bible (or any sacrad text for that matter) without a regard for context, and expect that to speak for itself... Jesus kills a kitten.

Yay, a fellow theologan! We should argue and have sex.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Pristinegirl]

I believe that idiots should have their children taken away, but I think she has full right to be an idiot.

Well said, I couldn't agree more haha!

 

[DefectiveCreative]

...a good artist...

Ah, Hitler, now there was a painter. He could paint an entire apartment in one afternoon, TWO COATS!!

That is true. However, I read that many were lured and manipulated into the Nazi party.

True, but many weren't. Many truly believed, down to their core, that they were doing the right thing. Not becuase they were sadists or sociopaths or anything like that, but because they honestly felt that eradicating the Jews, re-uniting the Aryan race under one flag and all the rest of it would make the world a better, happier place to live.

I just feel that someone saying Hitler was a loving person ought to be wrong.

Well he was nice to his dog, until he killed it.

He was good to Eva Braun too, and I think that I remember reading somewhere that he had an almost childlike sense of humour, and on top of that he truly believed that he was doing the right thing for the entire world. It's like Shai said, he was a human being (more's the pity) and no human is wholly "good" or wholly "bad".

Like you, I feel he was a mass murdering swine. Obviously it is a subjective opinion and live and let live right, but I probably wouldn't get a long with someone who claimed he was decent.

I'm not saying you have to get along with them, I wouldn't either, I'm just saying you have to respect their right to voice their opinion. The point I've been trying to make is that freedom of speech has to be absolute because morality is inherently subjective. There is no objective "right" or "wrong", it's all just based on personal opinion. This is why no-one must be allowed to censure any particular viewpoint, because no-one can be the ultimate arbiter of what is "good" or "bad" for anybody but themselves.

I strongly believe that all bigotry is based on ignorance and insecurity, IIRC at one point in the documentary she says something like "Do you know gay people eat each other's faeces?"

....seriously.

If those of us who believe that views like this are a "bad" thing can't defeat ignorance of that magnitude in the forum of public debate, then we don't deserve free speech.

It's worth remembering that the civil and women's rights movements didn't achieve the gains they have because they prevented people from saying bad things about them, they did it by tackling these viewpoints in the forum of public debate and showing them to ignorant and false.

That is how you defeat bigotry, by showing the people who hold those views to be as ignorant and insecure as they really are. If you try to stop them from airing these views in public, then you simply give them more power, because it makes their views seem that much more dangerous. It also makes you seem like the insecure one, because it makes it seem as if you're afraid that maybe they're right.

 

[daydreamer]

The journalist in the video seemed like he was trying to understand them. It's hard to see an idiot's point of view.

 

[DefectiveCreative]

The journalist in the video seemed like he was trying to understand them. It's hard to see an idiot's point of view.

That's Louis Theroux's interview style: Act like a nice amiable guy who's just trying to understand, and all the time just keep feeding them more and more rope.

It's very effective.