[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]. I agree. I believe that most of things (if not everything) that people do are in an effort to seek love and connection. I think this at the heart of most human experience and interaction. But because many people have not had the luxury to feel the grace of unconditional love and self acceptance- they continously seek it through external means and validation- relationships (often negative), approval form their peers and society, consumerism, arrogance, greed, hurting others, addictions, abuse etc, anything to fill that emptiness that cannot be filled. And yes I think that clinginess/aggressiveness/defensiveness/offensiveness/arrogance/dominance/submissiveness/passiveness/lack of self confidence are all manifestations of the same underlying issue- the absense of unconditional love and self acceptance.
I think that people have been taught to feel this way- by our societies, cultures, many of our religions, many of our families. That we are not good enough, that we constantly need to prove ourselves to earn love, that we are born sinners. We have all these riduclous measures of success in our culture mainly centred around materialism, being popular, or being 'better' than others. if these things really made people happy that why the hell are they so miserable?
And yes, unfortunately many people prey on this void to take advantage of people- but I think that those predators and scavengers of human emptiness are experiencing the same deep issue as their victims- the lack of unconditional love and self acceptance. Everything that happens just becomes a hollow compensation for what we really desire- which is true self acceptance and unconditional love. Ironically, this gift is free available and never depreciates in value, yet it is so hard to accept.
the love between a parent and a child seems to be the blueprint (see: judaism, christianity, and islam, and whatever religion uses the parent-child consciousness-human symbol) for that love to given to all freely, instead of only genetic family.
I like this- thank you. An extension of the love afforded by you to your own family, to the greater human family. We are all brothers and sisters. Everyone is someone's son, daughter. Its all the same.
My daughter is an only child- and I do not plan on having any more children, unless I adopt later in life. Many people say to me that she will become spoilt or lonely because she doesnt have any siblings. I couldnt disagree more- I think she has 6 billion siblings to learn to share with and connect with.
I hope this doesn't make me sound like some inhuman monster, but I would like to offer my own perspective/experiences.
I didn't feel immediate love for my son when I found out I was pregnant with him. With my current pregnancy I'm still battling feelings of annoyance over the inconvenient timing of it all though I do not doubt in the slightest I will love this child as much as my son. Even after I had my son and saw him for the first time, the feeling I had was more than anything a feeling of "responsibility". As I took care of him I grew to love him very very much, pretty quickly. But it still required me to get to know him on my part. I did not experience that sudden rush of OMG I LOVE YOU! that I hear some parents talk about. I felt completely responsible for his life and his well being, but...love love? I don't know. Unless that feeling of responsibility is what they are talking about.
Without a doubt now I unconditionally love him, I'm sure he could murder someone and I'd still love him. But I wonder about the validity of this instantaneous parental love that I've heard talked about. I think most loves take some amount of time to manifest, even parental love. But that was just my experience.
Also, I did not experience any post partum depression.
I love babies and they love me. It has always been that way and I had lots of experience babysitting and baby whispering. However, I was still apprehensive when I found out I was pregnant and terrified of having my own baby.
Its hard to talk about these things- but yes I too didnt feel that instant connection, gooey bliss when I had my daughter. I felt an overwhelming sense of responsibility and apprehension.And maybe even a sense of dread that Ive just brought an innocent into this world. Generally, I try to limit my resposbilities and duties, because I take responsibility very seriously. I cant stand having anyone depend on me or having to depend on others. I like everything to be mutual, and equal. So when I had this squalling bundle of goodness in my arms, all I could think of was 'what the hell have I done!' 'Im not ready' 'My old life is over' 'This being is totally dependant on me and its terrifying','I dont want to responsible for someone else's life', plus I felt really exhausted and just wanted to go to sleep, not spend the next 6 weeks breastfeeding, changing nappies, soothing wails and being utterly time and sleep deprived. The 1st three months of having a baby is extremely hard. Its just constant survival and responding. However, while I felt this way, I had an underlying appreciation for the life or being that was my daughter. She was pure, uncorrupted, perfect, innocent, full of potential and possibilities. She was who she was, and that all that mattered. She could become whoever she wanted, and I knew that nothing would change the fact that I loved her and accepted her. At about 3 months when she started responding clearly to me was when I started feeling the gooeyness and bliss.
Any thoughts?
My tooth hurts and I'm thirsty. ;_;
How do you see love?
A heightened form of infatuation which leads to babies and heartbreak.
Do you think love has to be unconditional to be real love?
I hereby declare that no one's 'love' is truly unconditional. You won't love someone if they stomp on your foot everyday, tell you what a horrible person you are by the hour, and beat the shit out of your puppy.
I know, I know... I'm a cynic. Can't help it.
To me unconditional love is loving someone if they beat the shit out of you, flay you alive, kill your loved ones, eat you children, and even if they commit the greatest astrocity committed to man- the bombing of hiroshima. You love them because you forgive them, or maybe your forgive them because you love them. If someone is hurting you then its your personal responsibility to end that situation by removing yourself. Self abuse and abuse of others is abbhorant to principle of unconditional love. When you love yourself unconditionally and truly accept youself, nothing can hurt you. You already have grace and no one take that away from you.
This what I personally know and believe-
You were born into a state of grace and you will die in a state of grace. You are already whole and 'perfect'. Your soul is eternally valid. You have a right to be here. You are automous and do not need any external validation to accept the being that you are. You create your own reality through your consiousness. You have power to be who you wish to be. You have unlimited potential, possibilties and the power to create. You are like a star, a singularity exploding with possibilities. You conciousness and your body is your universe, and you are the master and have sole responsibilty for its state. No one can ever take this away from you, not even yourself. You may choose to not believe it, but it will remain true and this grace and power will continue to be available to you. It does not matter what you have done or not done in the past, your life is your own and you can live it however you wish. The only thing that can truly limit you is your beliefs and fears. You are worthy of love. You are capable of loving all others. You are a child of the universe, of God, of All That Is, and you deserve to be happy and fulfilled. You and I are equal, as are all people. You will never be better or worse. You are you who are and that is enough and it is all you need.
I dont know what you past experiences have been and I have no wish to make assumptions or judge you. My closest, dearest friend is an ENTP, and he was taught continiously by his family that he was not good enough. They never appreciated his inherent qualities and wanted him to be more like siblings or other people. They didnt understand the 'big' way he sees the world, his idioscynacries, his eccentricness and tried to smother his creativity and visionary thought. Some people that meet him now just assume he is arrogant because he has learnt how to compensate. But he actually has low self acceptance and belief form consistently feeling he falls short of others expectations. He does seek external validity to prove his self worth to himself. He is an amazing person and I am blessed to know him. He has struggled to learn to accept himself but he is getting there. I wish I could just 'give' him the grace that he needs, but he needs to find it himself, and its hard for him because of so many of the things that have happened. But he is getting there and Ive never seen him happier. He says its the first time he has been happy and content. He is able to live his life in the way he chooses now and forgive himself and others for past hurts. He is coming to accept himself and understand that he is vaild, and not worry about all the things he has done, has not done, failed, the judgement of others, and constantly trying to meet the expectations of others.
Unconditional love comes from true self acceptance. Accept yourself for you and what you are, and feel the grace that it affords you.
yes, and this is why i refer to them as requirements rather than expectations.
i have found that if i expect something from another person in a relationship, regardless of the type of relationship, there is always that niggling negativity associated with it.
when i see them as requirements and i express them as such the other person (at least in my own experience) is more responsive.
i never assume what another should do for me. (this is what i call expectation) only what i need in my own life to make it work. (what i call a requirement)
it may seem silly to nitpick it this way, and i've been accused more than once of overanalysing it lol but to me it makes perfect sense
Makes sense to me
