the power of god

Oscillation said:
I'm not sure I understand the question.

Is it God that throws people in hell?
Why is he doing that?

Sin is what's making you find yourself in "Hell", since sin is what's keeping you away from God - your very existence! As being an image of God, you cannot live without Him, as the reflections in the mirror cannot be without an reality. But sin has the nature of making that image blurry, making you lose your true identity. Losing your identity (as an existing being) is going to make you experience the so called "Hell" - just as individuals could experience it already in life.

That's one way of looking at it anyway. It may or may not be the way I look at things. Anyway I have difficulties seing God throwing us in Hell just because "we did sin". That's not my way of experience God.
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I'm sue I poorly communicated my premise. Just that right is only right because God has the power to back it up. If he didn't have that power then why do the "right" (read: prescribed behavior by human as per gods instructions) thing. It goes for any power system really.
 
the said:
I'm sue I poorly communicated my premise. Just that right is only right because God has the power to back it up. If he didn't have that power then why do the "right" (read: prescribed behavior by human as per gods instructions) thing. It goes for any power system really.
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You fucking NEED to read these books man -

510RDqFqEDL._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

God is dead, and Anthony Van Horne must tow the corpse to the Arctic (to preserve Him from sharks and decomposition).
En route Van Horne must also contend with ecological guilt, a militant girlfriend, sabotage both natural and spiritual, and greedy hucksters of oil, condoms, and doubtful ideas.
Winner of a 1995 World Fantasy Award.

and

512S1RKADYL.jpg


In this “funny, ferocious fantasy” (Philadelphia Inquirer), God is a comatose, two-mile-long tourist attraction at a Florida theme park-until a conniving judge decides to put Him on trial in The Hague for crimes against humanity.
A New York Times Notable Book of the Year.

OMG….there’s a new one…haven’t read this one yet!! Holy shit.

51Bn8zBWrML._SY344_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

God's body has self-destructed and His skull is now in orbit directly above Times Square, prompting a plague of "death awareness" across the Western hemisphere.

The United States begins to resemble fourteenth-century Europe during the Black Death–with some unique twenty-first-century twists–a bloody battle on a New Jersey golf course between Jews and anti-Semites; a modern theater troupe's stirring dramatization of the Gilgamesh epic; a post-death debate between Martin Luther and Erasmus; and the most chilling capitalist villain ever, Dr. Adrian Lucido, founder of a new pagan church and inventor of a cure worse than any disease.

Two people fight to preserve life and sanity, Nora Burkhart, a schoolteacher who will stop at nothing to save her only son, and Gerard Korty, a brilliant sculptor struggling to create a masterwork that will heal the metaphysical wounds caused by God's abdication.

The Eternal Footman brilliantly completes James Morrow's satiric trilogy begun with the World Fantasy Award-winning Towing Jehovah and continued in Blameless in Abaddon.


That is so sweet….haha…anyhow.
These books will answer all those questions…like nuns having sex in God’s navel for example.
If He’s dead, then does it matter?
 
Not sure about God but.. jesus has been messing with people as of late.



INFIDELIX
A married couple in Florida, Tito and Amanda Watts, were arrested a few days ago for selling “golden tickets to heaven” to hundreds of people.

They sold the tickets on the street for $99.99 per ticket, told buyers the tickets were made from solid gold, and that each ticket reserved the buyer a spot in heaven — simply present the ticket at the pearly gates and you’re in.

Tito Watts said in his police statement: "I don’t care what the police say. The tickets are solid gold… And it was Jesus who give them to me behind the KFC and said to sell them so I could get me some money to go to outer space. I met an alien named Stevie who said if I got the cash together he’d take me and my wife on his flying saucer to his planet that’s made entirely of drugs. You should arrest Jesus because he’s the one that gave me the golden tickets and said to sell them. I’m willing to wear a wire and set Jesus up...."

Amanda Watts said in her police statement:" "We just wanted to leave earth and go to space and do drugs. I didn’t do nothing. Tito sold the golden tickets to heaven. I just watched."

Police said they confiscated over $10,000 in cash, drug paraphernalia, and a baby alligator.
 
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God is the Most Merciful, He gives you so many chances to change your ways, but if you are hopelessly insisting on your sin, then you earn yourself His wrath which is suffering in this world and beyond, this is very fair and just, otherwise there would be no point if the mafia leaders get away with it in the end.
 
the said:
If God did not have the power to throw you into hell, then would it matter if you sinned? What is the point of right and wrong from a religious perspective if God just makes suggestions and does not intervene afterwards?
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Interesting question. I think there are multiple ways of looking at it.

The way I understand the question is thus: « Do we act morally because we are afraid of being punished if we don't, or because we genuinely tend to act, uncoerced, according to some moral code? » My view on it is that most humans do have an intuitive understanding of right and wrong, are able to use their judgement to distinguish one from the other, and tend towards good acts. Everything else being equal, that is, we usually opt for the good – but in real life situations, not all variables are equal, of course, and we are inconsistent. We will sometimes perform an immoral action because, in a particular situations, it suits us, because it is « not that bad », and we will justify it to ourselves in that way. I think this is one of the cardinal qualities of what being human means : to know what is right and what is wrong most of the time, but to be inconsistent in applying this knowledge. You could say that the less inconsistent the person, the more morally virtuous and upright.

From this perspective, having God as a judge who can admonish and punish could be seen, quite simply, as a way to make humans – believers in this case – more consistent. Punishment will have more force of persuasion, but the mere voicing of a judgement will also have a real influence on the choices one makes – a little bit like in international law, certain treaties are not binding upon States, but they do tend to respect them because they are afraid of being shamed otherwise. But these features of God, I think, would only (perhaps) help humans achieve more consistency regarding what they already now intuitively to be right and wrong. Therefore, a God that does not have the power to send a sinner to hell does not make morality itself meaningless. It might instead lead a certain number of not-so-virtuous believers to become less consistent ; they will allow themselves more leeway with actions they know to be sinful. But by and large, I think the majority will still seek to tend towards the good, inconsistently but sincerely.
 
the said:
If God did not have the power to throw you into hell, then would it matter if you sinned?
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Sin could still matter to God.

What is the point of right and wrong from a religious perspective if God just makes suggestions and does not intervene afterwards?
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Theoretically, any answer could suffice here.
 
Ren said:
Interesting question. I think there are multiple ways of looking at it.

The way I understand the question is thus: « Do we act morally because we are afraid of being punished if we don't, or because we genuinely tend to act, uncoerced, according to some moral code? » My view on it is that most humans do have an intuitive understanding of right and wrong, are able to use their judgement to distinguish one from the other, and tend towards good acts. Everything else being equal, that is, we usually opt for the good – but in real life situations, not all variables are equal, of course, and we are inconsistent. We will sometimes perform an immoral action because, in a particular situations, it suits us, because it is « not that bad », and we will justify it to ourselves in that way. I think this is one of the cardinal qualities of what being human means : to know what is right and what is wrong most of the time, but to be inconsistent in applying this knowledge. You could say that the less inconsistent the person, the more morally virtuous and upright.

From this perspective, having God as a judge who can admonish and punish could be seen, quite simply, as a way to make humans – believers in this case – more consistent. Punishment will have more force of persuasion, but the mere voicing of a judgement will also have a real influence on the choices one makes – a little bit like in international law, certain treaties are not binding upon States, but they do tend to respect them because they are afraid of being shamed otherwise. But these features of God, I think, would only (perhaps) help humans achieve more consistency regarding what they already now intuitively to be right and wrong. Therefore, a God that does not have the power to send a sinner to hell does not make morality itself meaningless. It might instead lead a certain number of not-so-virtuous believers to become less consistent ; they will allow themselves more leeway with actions they know to be sinful. But by and large, I think the majority will still seek to tend towards the good, inconsistently but sincerely.
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So, it's the adult version of stories to scare children into behaving.
 
sprinkles said:
So, it's the adult version of stories to scare children into behaving.
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Hey @sprinkles! Haha, that's one way of looking at it :) My main purpose in the post above was to preserve morality in the absence of a punitive God. It's the best argument I could come up with.

I think that, since I'm coming from an agnostic perspective, I'm inevitably going to look at the debate from a bottom-up angle, that is, from the viewpoint of how the perfection of God is at the service of man and not the opposite. I am fascinated by religions and in awe of the depth of metaphysical, psychological and emotional insight of many religious texts, such as the Bible, probably because it's the one I'm most familiar with. I suppose that's why I find the less savoury aspects all the more glaring, and I have never liked this idea of a punitive God. I don't think it is necessary, I think God should be really be a guide, not a punisher. I understand that, being perfect, he should have the power to punish ; but that does not mean he must use it. So it made sense to me to suggest that morality would be preserved even if God were not to have such a power.
 
Ren said:
Hey @sprinkles! Haha, that's one way of looking at it :) My main purpose in the post above was to preserve morality in the absence of a punitive God. It's the best argument I could come up with.

I think that, since I'm coming from an agnostic perspective, I'm inevitably going to look at the debate from a bottom-up angle, that is, from the viewpoint of how the perfection of God is at the service of man and not the opposite. I am fascinated by religions and in awe of the depth of metaphysical, psychological and emotional insight of many religious texts, such as the Bible, probably because it's the one I'm most familiar with. I suppose that's why I find the less savoury aspects all the more glaring, and I have never liked this idea of a punitive God. I don't think it is necessary, I think God should be really be a guide, not a punisher. I understand that, being perfect, he should have the power to punish ; but that does not mean he must use it. So it made sense to me to suggest that morality would be preserved even if God were not to have such a power.
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I understand. I believe we are God because the God one believes in is a projection of what they already agree with. The moral will find God and the command of God is a command from your moral self through a virtual proxy.
 
Wyote said:
hush, Oct 4, 2016
Prophetic abilities confirmed
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I think the literally most common thing for me to do on the INFJs forum is to desperately hunt for a philosophy thread to post on, but when I realise I'm the last poster on all of them, that's when I have to start digging graves :grin:
 
Well, the people will tell you for sure if it isn't quite ok what one is doing. The more one gets into appreciating his own ego though, will be the end of that feeling. So to answer the question, to some it doesn't matter at all, and to some it matters more than anything. I've met many christians and members of other religions who are egoistic and hateful towards others, so I think religion doesn't play the biggest part in that factor of forming a good persona. The motive to do good is what matters.

I think there are multiple ways of forming morals upon which one acts, yet no easy way to know if they come out as good or bad. By choosing to act in a certain way, there are always those who judge and those who approve. It's all about the goal one sets for it's own life, and the means one uses to get there. I don't think those living without religion fear god, nor think that they are judged by their actions by him, yet there's just as much potential to be good or bad on a moral basis. Just like for those who fear god's wrath all the time.

Let's say a christian and an atheist went into a bank for money they didn't have, and both were very poor with life-threateningly sick children. The atheist would rob the bank to feed his children, and the christian would beg for the money at the desk. Who acted better?
 
Never let your morals get in the way of doing the right thing. ;)
 
Oscillation said:
I'm not sure I understand the question.

Is it God that throws people in hell?
Why is he doing that?

Sin is what's making you find yourself in "Hell", since sin is what's keeping you away from God - your very existence! As being an image of God, you cannot live without Him, as the reflections in the mirror cannot be without an reality. But sin has the nature of making that image blurry, making you lose your true identity. Losing your identity (as an existing being) is going to make you experience the so called "Hell" - just as individuals could experience it already in life.

That's one way of looking at it anyway. It may or may not be the way I look at things. Anyway I have difficulties seing God throwing us in Hell just because "we did sin". That's not my way of experience God.
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No you go to hell because to decided not to accept God as your savior. Being baptized In the name of Jesus is the only way to prevent one going to hell.
 
amad said:
God is the Most Merciful, He gives you so many chances to change your ways, but if you are hopelessly insisting on your sin, then you earn yourself His wrath which is suffering in this world and beyond, this is very fair and just, otherwise there would be no point if the mafia leaders get away with it in the end.
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You cant earn your own salvation. As it states in the Bible. We are saved through grace.
 
Are there any real Apostolic/Pentecostals here? Ones that are filled with the Holy Ghost and believe in all parts of the Bible?
 
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