The REAL cost of education

[Artisan]

Honestly, the question right now remains, what fields of study are still lucrative, place you in a high demand and do not ruin your health in the long run ?
Both right now, and ones in the next 5-10 years or so.


Personally, I feel very few fields of studies still make sense to follow since there are too many graduates for them and too few jobs. Universities do not play into this by looking into and recommending upcoming fields with a high demand, instead they keep reiterating how awesome studies like philosophy are...

 

[PintoBean]

Honestly, the question right now remains, what fields of study are still lucrative, place you in a high demand and do not ruin your health in the long run ?
Both right now, and ones in the next 5-10 years or so....

Honest question: What's your definition of lucrative? Sometimes these discussions can become elitist in the expectations expressed (not pointing the finger at you). $18.00/hr for non strenuous work is super attractive to many people, for example. Not so much to anyone I went to law school with!

 

[Skarekrow]

I totally agree with you re college. But vocational schools are by definition not colleges. They are post-secondary. The credit rarely even transfers to community colleges/2 year colleges. I do stand by my original statement that affordable (and I mean nearly free) vocational schools exist. They are all over my state. But that does limit one to a vocation. Like being an LPN or being a welder. These are very attractive options for many people.

Going slightly off topic, it's fascinating to me that food stamps are revoked for anyone taking classes at a post-secondary level. As in it's a federal crime to keep your EBT credit and attend classes. I remember this being a big factor for students enrolled in the vocational school I attended. Shocking and amazing. I mean, you would think the first step to getting people off food stamps would be to allow them to pursue an education that would give them possibility at least of a living wage.

It’s almost as if they don’t give a flying fuck about people who are poor?
How bizarre…hahahahaha

Honestly, the question right now remains, what fields of study are still lucrative, place you in a high demand and do not ruin your health in the long run ?
Both right now, and ones in the next 5-10 years or so.


Personally, I feel very few fields of studies still make sense to follow since there are too many graduates for them and too few jobs. Universities do not play into this by looking into and recommending upcoming fields with a high demand, instead they keep reiterating how awesome studies like philosophy are...

I have thought of maybe becoming some kind of counselor, or perhaps energy healer, naturopath…something along those lines.

 

[Artisan]

Honest question: What's your definition of lucrative? Sometimes these discussions can become elitist in the expectations expressed (not pointing the finger at you). $18.00/hr for non strenuous work is super attractive to many people, for example. Not so much to anyone I went to law school with!

lucrative in the sense that you:
- wont be nailed down with a debt for the majority of your life,
- you actually find a job / demand for your skills
- you can afford to have kids and a stay at home partner should one wish so.

 

[sprinkles]

Honestly, the question right now remains, what fields of study are still lucrative, place you in a high demand and do not ruin your health in the long run ?
Both right now, and ones in the next 5-10 years or so.


Personally, I feel very few fields of studies still make sense to follow since there are too many graduates for them and too few jobs. Universities do not play into this by looking into and recommending upcoming fields with a high demand, instead they keep reiterating how awesome studies like philosophy are...

Getting educated only to get a job is a mistake from the outset. A job does not magically create itself just because you have a degree, and that is not the fault of the education system.

Not that this isn't a legitimate question, it just has nothing to do with exorbitant costs of education. This problem would still exist if education were entirely free. In fact the problem would likely be WORSE if education were entirely free.

 

[Tin Man]

Getting educated only to get a job is a mistake from the outset. A job does not magically create itself just because you have a degree, and that is not the fault of the education system.

Not that this isn't a legitimate question, it just has nothing to do with exorbitant costs of education. This problem would still exist if education were entirely free. In fact the problem would likely be WORSE if education were entirely free.

Yeah, over here education is mostly free and it's resulted in a large amount of highly educated people with little applicable knowledge. A big part of this is that people are more drawn to the idea of studying at a university when they would benefit a lot more from technological institutes or apprenticeships. That attitude is changing, but for a long time people were looked down upon for having attended an IT, rather than a college.

 

[muir]

Now if Daddy paid for a wing at Harvard, you are a shoe in…all kinds of nepotistic doors open for you…which is great because the richer you get here in the US, the fewer taxes you actually have to pay for some fucked up alternate universe backward-world reason.

oh it has a purpose...it is all designed to move all the wealth upwards into a smaller and smaller number of hands

centralised wealth and centralised power

Then when they have all the wealth they can buy all the nations assets which the corrupt politicians will sell them

The super rich will end up owning everything and we will be serfs on the land again (unless people wake up and start responding of course)

 

[Skarekrow]

oh it has a purpose...it is all designed to move all the wealth upwards into a smaller and smaller number of hands

centralised wealth and centralised power

Then when they have all the wealth they can buy all the nations assets which the corrupt politicians will sell them

The super rich will end up owning everything and we will be serfs on the land again (unless people wake up and start responding of course)

Don’t get me started Muir.
You know how I feel about current affairs.
The thing is…I just don’t see their plans working out quite as they may imagine it.
You can have all the money in the world, but if that money is worthless - so is your imagined power.

 

[muir]

Don’t get me started Muir.
You know how I feel about current affairs.
The thing is…I just don’t see their plans working out quite as they may imagine it.
You can have all the money in the world, but if that money is worthless - so is your imagined power.

I'm just clarifying because some people seem to think the world is turning to shite because their leaders are incompetent...they're not incompetent...their plan is going perfectly to plan

the only thing that will thrwo a spanner in the works is an enlightened and united public

 

[Lerxst]

I'm just clarifying because some people seem to think the world is turning to shite because their leaders are incompetent...they're not incompetent...their plan is going perfectly to plan

the only thing that will thrwo a spanner in the works is an enlightened and united public

Which ain't going to happen because the education system is rigged in their favor. In the US, we've had a generation already grow up in this fucked up cesspool of capitalist corruption. If they attack, or are allowed to attack kids when they're young and indoctrinate them into the system at an early age, who's left to fight them later on? It's like our entire country has brain cancer and we're too sick to tell we have brain cancer because it's our brains that have the cancer.

People outside look in and tell us, "man, you guys are fucked". Or people in the system that took time to open one of the non-standard text books in school look around and say, "Man, we're fucked." But those voices are few and far between.

Wait... what was this thread about again?

 

[muir]

Which ain't going to happen because the education system is rigged in their favor. In the US, we've had a generation already grow up in this fucked up cesspool of capitalist corruption. If they attack, or are allowed to attack kids when they're young and indoctrinate them into the system at an early age, who's left to fight them later on?

They know this

This is why they are going after the kids

they're weakening their minds by driving down educational standards eg common core thereby not only indoctrinating them but driving down literacy and numeracy and they're attacking their bodies with vaccines, food additives and flouride in the drinking water so that it has gone from 1 in 10,000 kids with autism to 1 in 50 in a couple of decades!

Soon it will be 1 in 10 kids with autism and the remainder will be illiterate indoctrinated and riddled with health problems

The few that then go onto university will then be so laden with debt that they will be too busy trying to keep the bailifs off their back to even contemplate resisting the corruption of the system

People really need to respond to this now because it will only get harder

Another thing is that this younger generation is totally enthrall to technology...they don't even know a world without technology and its been shown that computer games and pornography actually RE-WIRE the human brain:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...-prison-experiment-psychologist-10238211.html

When some people hear this stuff they say ''oh you're just being alarmist''. How can you know that we have gone from 1 in 10000 kids with autism to 1 in 50 in such a short space of time and not be alarmed?!!!! What the fuck is wrong with people?

It's like our entire country has brain cancer and we're too sick to tell we have brain cancer because it's our brains that have the cancer.

You have plenty of very smart, very switched on people in the US but they don't get a platform in the mainstream media because the mainstream media is owned and controlled by the corporations

A lot of people are now switching off from the mainstream media (MSM) and going over to the independent media (also known as the alternative media) but the majority of people still rely on the corporate media for their news because they don't yet realise that its function is to brainwash them to think and feel the way the corporations want them to think and feel

people need to start ignoring the MSM and to start listening to good information from other sources (i'll be posting a list of indie media sites this evening)

People outside look in and tell us, "man, you guys are fucked". Or people in the system that took time to open one of the non-standard text books in school look around and say, "Man, we're fucked." But those voices are few and far between.

Well the whole west is fucked. i think more effort has gone into screwing the US because basically you guys are the most powerful country around

There is NO ROOM for a super power in the new world order so the US has to be brought to its knees...that's their plan

They HATE the fact you guys have guns. if you guys didn't have guns they would already have their new world order and if you guys fall, they will then steamroll us here in the UK too

What happens to you guys happens to us too and visa versa. For example we had a school shooting here in the UK years ago that then justified the government taking hand guns off the public

Then you guys got school shootings as they tried to take your AR15's

You guys got the false flag attack known as 911 ans then we got false flag attacks in london called the 7/7 attacks; these were then used to justify this never ending war against 'terror'

This is because the same people who control the US also control the UK and canada and australia and france etc

To have a bogeyman to fight the CIA created 'al qaeda' (who they know support in syria). Now they have created ISIS! It just goes on and on with these guys as they push relentlessly forward towards their new world order (one world government run by them)

So educational standards are dropping here in the UK too

If you do an internet search of scottish inventions you'll find that my tiny little country invented many of the major modern inventions. We were the centre of the enlightenment. We were the literary giant of europe. This was because we had an incredible education system. We a country of 5 million had 4 universities whilst our neighbour england (pop of 55 million) had only 2!

And higher education here in scotland could be bought for a couple of bags of crop allowing folk from humble backgrounds to attend uni. Even today university is free in scotland but not in england

But by being forced to join england when a few of the aristocracy got together and took a vote for union (they were bought by english gold) we lost our independence and with it went our incredible education system

Central controllers don't like clever, educated people because clever people who understand how things work tend to think for themselves and that is anti-thetical to central control

if we want to live in a smart, educated country we MUST GET RID OF CENTRAL CORPORATE CONTROL and allow a greater degree of equality in education, wealth, power, health etc

Wait... what was this thread about again?

It's about how we're all gettin screwed...i think....

 

[Artisan]

It's about how we're all gettin screwed...i think....

Yes that is what we all agree upon and keep re-iterating ;p
[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION] [MENTION=5045]Skarekrow[/MENTION] [MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION]

So if you had a kid who was at the age that he/she is able to attend college/university, what would you recommend that kid to do despite these problems?
In other words what would you do if you had the hindsight you have now ?

 

[Lerxst]

Yes that is what we all agree upon and keep re-iterating ;p
@muir @Skarekrow @PintoBean

So if you had a kid who was at the age that he/she is able to attend college/university, what would you recommend that kid to do despite these problems?
In other words what would you do if you had the hindsight you have now ?

Deutsch lernen

 

[Free]

So if you had a kid who was at the age that he/she is able to attend college/university, what would you recommend that kid to do despite these problems?
In other words what would you do if you had the hindsight you have now ?

I will be facing this very dilemma when my nephew comes of college age. I know we know what needs to be fixed, but it won't be fixed by the time he's ready for college. I'm still paying off my student loans at 35 and have a long way to go yet! I don't want that for him. Aside from putting what I can aside little by little for now, I'm going to encourage him to maintain a good GPA for his capabilities and apply for Pell Grants, any grants that he may qualify for, any scholarships that are out there, community sponsorship, even corporate sponsorship. He has already expressed a desire to join the military like his father, and if he chooses to do so, he can take advantage of the GI Bill benefits he'll earn as well as those that were passed down to him through his father's service.

There are ways to lessen the amount you'll inevitably be in debt for upon graduation, it's just a matter of doing the research yourself, or having an advocate in the know helping you along the way. Also, when I was in college, there were not nearly as many grants out there to apply for. Now there are loads! The trick is, you can't expect anyone to just hand these to you. You need to qualify for them, and then earn them. My neighbor's daughter received a full scholarship free-ride because she won an art contest in highschool. But that brings me to my next point.

Most Universities take only a limited # of "grant students". This will limit your options severely on which college/University you'll be attending. It then becomes a matter of not which one you want to attend, but which one you can attend.

And once there, what to study? Do you go with your passion, or do you go with practicality? No matter how much we intuitives dislike practical careers, I would find what his interests are and offer a variety of useful in-demand options for him. Sciences, Technology, Medical are always in need. I think he'd be good in a tech field, so I hope he chooses that route.

 

[PintoBean]

I would have gotten a BSN instead of a BA. If I could not pay tuition without loans and was unable to work and study at the same time, I would attend a a 1 year program to become an LPN at a gov. funded vocational school. I would then work for an agency or PRN as my schedule allowed and take classes towards a BSN for as long as it took. That is what I would do or advise a young person with limited resources or no help to do today. There are a lot of unhappy and ineffectual and debt laden lawyers now because they saw no other option once they realized the silliness of a Philosophy, English or Anthropology degree.

 

[Lerxst]

I still stand by my statement "Deutsch lernen ". America isn't the beginning and ending of the entire world. Germany offers free tuition for all college students, including Americans.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/e...e/american-students-head-germany-free-college

Cheaper to pay airfare, get a visa and rent a place there than pay tuition here.

The other 6.5 billion people in the world do fine without the need for American universities. To think that ours are the only ones worth anything is lunacy.

 

[Free]

I still stand by my statement "Deutsch lernen ". America isn't the beginning and ending of the entire world. Germany offers free tuition for all college students, including Americans.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/e...e/american-students-head-germany-free-college

Cheaper to pay airfare, get a visa and rent a place there than pay tuition here.

The other 6.5 billion people in the world do fine without the need for American universities. To think that ours are the only ones worth anything is lunacy.

I agree with you, the same goes for many European countries. However I don't see anywhere where it was stated that American Unies are the only ones worth going to. I don't believe that an American Uni is the only option for an education. We are not so full of ourselves as people think. It all depends on the individual as to which option will work best for his/her needs. I was just offering another opinion on what to do when faced with these circumstances of high educational costs. Too often complaints are many where solutions are few.

 

[Misadventure]

For me, living in another country was just NOT an option due to family reasons, so I did have limited choices for my education. Those who have the freedom to move out of the country for the duration of their education should count themselves lucky. I don't see that as a viable option for a lot of people though. For me, and many like me, grants and scholarships are the way to go and had I known, I would have tried harder in high-school. lol. Most parents can't afford to send their kids to school either and I worked full time during school to pay my tuition fees. Is it costly, HELL YES, even when going to a college vs university. But can it be done? Yes. Depends on your options and the choices you make within those options.

And Free, I am so stealing this line for my sig

Too often complaints are many where solutions are few.

 

[Lerxst]

So my actual answer to this question would be: I would have worked my retail job for two years while living at home. Contribute what I could to living with my family and save the rest. Have about 18k saved after 2 years (more then required for a student visa), and take German classes in those 2 years or Rosetta Stone. Go online and find a place to rent, buy a $1,500 plane ticket and head to Germany.

While there, I'd get a part time job as my visa allows, just to pay for basics like rent and necessities while living there and attending college.

Seriously.

 

[Misadventure]

So my actual answer to this question would be: I would have worked my retail job for two years while living at home. Contribute what I could to living with my family and save the rest. Have about 18k saved after 2 years (more then required for a student visa), and take German classes in those 2 years or Rosetta Stone. Go online and find a place to rent, buy a $1,500 plane ticket and head to Germany.

While there, I'd get a part time job as my visa allows, just to pay for basics like rent and necessities while living there and attending college.

Seriously.

My point was that it was impossible for me to be away from the vicinity of my family. I was taking care of aging parents and younger siblings and blah blah. I couldn't leave the country. Your logistics make sense, and that's a great option for someone who does not have any responsibilities to anyone but themselves. But for any one else, it just couldn't work. Again, that is another great option. And that's the point of [MENTION=11651]Artisan[/MENTION]'s question I think, what are the options? You, [MENTION=13729]Free2be[/MENTION], and [MENTION=13730]PintoBean[/MENTION] have given some really good answers as possible solutions. Like Free said, everyone needs to choose which of the available options would work for them. But the point is finding all the options available.