The role of Ti in INFJs

[Saru Inc]

T - putting things into organized categories, hierarchies, lists, trees, etc.
Ti - the above, via subjective criteria (i.e. I'm doing it so I can understand it, based on my subjective definitions.)
Te - the above, via objective criteria (i.e. I'm doing it so everyone else can understand it based on objectively verifiable definitions.)

My Ti is saying I don't like those definitions. Reason being? Whats the point? "the above via subjective" "the above via objective" wow really descriptive. That doesn't make any sense to me. What a waste of my time.


Thats my inf Ti. I totally said that irl, then I thought about it and it made sense to me, so I stopped being pissed off, and decided to post this in case you were wondering.

I mean, the way I see it as, Ti gets much more invested in things than Te does. Ti wants to understand the whole of a subject, so it can perhaps replicate it. Te wants to be able to use this thing in the environment to prosper, it doesn't really need to know all about it. Te cares about the objective relationship between objects, if it sees something it likes, it goes with it. If this happens to change to a point Te doesn't like it anymore, it drops it and moves on. I think a good way to describe Ti vs Te, is Ti, as Arsal just said bases on subjective, and INTP may wonder about something and understand it, to expand their knowledge. an ENTJ may learn about something so they can use it in their extraverted world to gain progress. An INTJ may learn about something, just so they can see how they can apply it to their world view of how the world could be.

 

[Arsal]

I mean, the way I see it as, Ti gets much more invested in things than Te does. Ti wants to understand the whole of a subject, so it can perhaps replicate it. Te wants to be able to use this thing in the environment to prosper, it doesn't really need to know all about it. Te cares about the objective relationship between objects, if it sees something it likes, it goes with it. If this happens to change to a point Te doesn't like it anymore, it drops it and moves on. I think a good way to describe Ti vs Te, is Ti, as Arsal just said bases on subjective, and INTP may wonder about something and understand it, to expand their knowledge. an ENTJ may learn about something so they can use it in their extraverted world to gain progress. An INTJ may learn about something, just so they can see how they can apply it to their world view of how the world could be.

People with Te or Fe in their top two functions will be focused on information that is directed towards affecting the external environment, or information that is directly influenced by the immediate environment. All xxxJ types are this way. This has nothing to do with Ti in particular.

Yes, INTPs are often unconcerned with how realistically applicable their ideas are. However, INFPs are exactly the same way, as well as ISFPs and ISTPs. It's inferior Je that lends them this quality, not Ti.

Depth of subject has more to do with the perceiving functions.

 

[Saru Inc]

I know. But since its Ti vs Te all we're really looking at is Ji vs Je. So if we just apply Ji to a T lens, voila the same thing is achieved. He's just looking for Ti vs Te, so we don't really have to go into detail of what Ti actually is, really just Ji vs Je. Is that whatyou just said?idk im watching cops. friggen estjs.

 

[Arsal]

^ You are defining Ti based solely on how xNTPs act, and Te based solely on how xNTJs act.

xxFJs and xxFPs also have Ti and Te respectively, and when you apply your definitions to these types, it makes no sense.

 

[Saru Inc]

well no, that's just the examples I used. An ISTP would use Ti in the same way, in that it may be focused on a different part of the world, Ti is Ti. But I get what you're saying though about XXfj and XXFp using them differently. I just noticed he was INTJ so I was making a dom/aux T definition, rather than wasting time going into T for all four functions. And I don't really vague definitions, even if necessary. :|

 

[Orion]

Thats my inf Ti. I totally said that irl, then I thought about it and it made sense to me, so I stopped being pissed off, and decided to post this in case you were wondering.

Chill man we are all here to learn.

As an aside I learnt something from you a while ago. It was back when you came up with an idea on something, then people, including me, blasted you for it. You neg repped me, then later you pos repped me with an apology. I realise now, that was just your way of learning and working things out. I feel like i didn't let you breath, let you go through things the way you want, without judging you for it.

I have a tendency to take on a stance that i don't understand or agree with just to see peoples reactions and learn something from that reaction.

I think I judge people too harshly when they may be wrong (but you might not be, just my perception) in areas that i care about because i care about being right, from a moral stand point. Then I read a philosophical idea somewhere about how the world condemns "being wrong" and that we are afraid of being wrong more then anything, not getting things right and making mistakes. I realise i shouldn't condemn or have too high a standard for being right because learning from mistakes and developing a viewpoint is long process. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm not talking about this discussion right now but i forgot to say this to you and i was supposed to say ages ago, sorry

 

[Saru Inc]

No its totally cool. [MENTION=1378]Orion[/MENTION]

I hate negatively repping people, if I hate a post you made, I'll negatively rep you, then I'll positively rep another post.

But yes, even though people were calling me an extravert for months, and I still didn't see it. I realized that I totally HAVE to come to a conclusion about something RIGHT THEN. RIGHT THERE. I can't not make a feeling based decision. And then I think about it/decide if its right or wrong. Thats why I posted the post. When people shoot me down I immediately go (irl) "BITCH THE FUCK YOU TALKING D---- oh. yeah you're right." Its why I've learned to not speak my mind all the time, though I do have a tendency to still do that a lot on the internet


I am horrible at explaining my ideas etc, I think I can contribute this to inf Ti, as apparently Ti can be known as providing the right verbiage for something. And I hate when I can't describe someting, or I explain myself incorrectly, and I know that I have, and then someone goes "oh btw you didnt explain that right" or "stupid thats now how it is." Or even "hey that's not right." God, I just frustrated. But thats just the initial reaction, very quickly usually I change my demeanor to one thats.... appropriate? Like thats when my Ni will come in, as the 2nd step.


Now this is Ti in ENFJs, not iNFJs haha. I do have a lot of ISFJ coworkers at my job, really are. In fact, they are the exact portrait of Si-Fe-Ti-Ne. Total. And whenevver I challenge their, well, their Ti they get like. Like, for me, I get enraged. They get... Childish. Like, "nvm I just don't want to talk about it cuz ur dumbbbbb neenerneener." kind of thing. I guess Tert roles being called the "Child" makes absolute sense to me.


Edit: is this inf Ti? I'm absolutely horrible at making massive typos, but not like you're vs. your. But like, I'll jot down an entire idea wrong the length of like, two sentences. I once wrote literally the exact opposite of what I meant. So I tried to be like "oh wait i didnt mean that!!!" That might be the ADHD tho.

 

[Feelings]

Example of Te/Fi philosophy:



Example of Fe/Ti philosophy:

Actually, these 2 firosofees are not mutually exclusive. InvisiJim sez that people do have cognitive preferences, and that there's no need to deny this. Arghbigirl sez let's just not talk about those preferences. She also sez that empirically no particular type is superior to another. These two perspectives can co-exist perfectly.

 

[Feelings]

Sort of. Your definition of Fe isn't right.

F - harmony/symmetry
Fe - harmony based on shared compromise (external)
Fi - harmony based on individual emotional/mental equilibrium (internal)

Fe/Ti = Everyone should have equal social position, but internally be more or less efficient at their individual talents.
Te/Fi = Everyone should have the social position they deserve based on objective testing/criteria, but internally be at peace with themselves and their worth.

Oh I see. Ya I'm Fi till I die. And ya I make judgements of value and hierarchy exactly like that Te/Fi description.

Still don't see the exact difference between Ti and Te, except that they feed different supporting functions.

 

[Saru Inc]

I mean what Arsal said pretty much works. Ti wants to understand something for themselves, or in the inf/tert they may hate it when rules are applied *to them* or nothing makes sense *to them* and they can't figure out why. Te... Idk how Tert/Inf may experience it.

 

[Arsal]

Actually, these 2 firosofees are not mutually exclusive. InvisiJim sez that people do have cognitive preferences, and that there's no need to deny this. Arghbigirl sez let's just not talk about those preferences. She also sez that empirically no particular type is superior to another. These two perspectives can co-exist perfectly.

This was a more balanced example because both InvisibleJim and arbygil are pretty well-developed individuals. But abstractly, I mean it sort of like:

 

[Saru Inc]

^^ ahahahahahahaa yerp.

 

[Feelings]

What if a Te/Fi user like myself doesn't value people using the traditional model of social status? What if I value based on a criteria like kindness, intelligence, intuition, self-awareness and insightfulness, but I form a hierarchy of valuation based on that? Is it still Te/Fi then?

 

[Arsal]

What if a Te/Fi user like myself doesn't value people using the traditional model of social status? What if I value based on a criteria like kindness, intelligence, intuition, self-awareness and insightfulness, but I form a hierarchy of valuation based on that? Is it still Te/Fi then?

Yep.

The "traditional" model of social status is mainly Fe-based, and as an INTJ, I would expect you to reject it and value Fi (your subjective criteria of value) instead. What you described is the essence of Te/Fi approach.

 

[UncertainSomething]

Ti is theoretical logic, exploring subject matter (models)
Te is applicable logic, completing objectives (systems)

So Ti is organizing of theoretical models and Te is organizing of physical systems

Hence the misunderstandings between Te and Ti users at times, the clash of what if vs what is.

 

[Razare]

Ti is theoretical logic, exploring subject matter (models)
Te is applicable logic, completing objectives (systems)

So Ti is organizing of theoretical models and Te is organizing of physical systems

Hence the misunderstandings between Te and Ti users at times, the clash of what if vs what is.

Yeah I like that explanation best, it's the shortest and to the point.

As for it's role in the INFJ; it's a method for us to become adults. Especially with men, from what I've seen, we're not mentally grown until it turns on and we start questioning our core beliefs with it.

 

[justeccentricnotinsane]

Yes. Ti essentially just decides.

An INFJ with a strong Ti is more likely to be very certain about what they think they know. So Ni+Fe (which I agree always work together and are the very foundation TOGETHER of identity) produces a judgement of reality in a vague sense of right and wrong. However, Ni does not exclude information. Ni is a mass of information. Fe judges this information and categorises into moral and immoral, but it does not go in there and decide to ignore the moral bits or a situation that is mostly immoral, Ti does that. Ti says well the most important parts of this situation/information are immoral, so who gives a shit if some bits of it are also good? If the most important part is immoral, then we may as well brand this entire thing as immoral.

Ti is the part of us that brands others as "bad". An INFJ with a strong Ti is still able to see that nobody is evil and that absolutes are necessarily always incorrect (Ni helps us remain aware of the spectral and fluctuating nature of subjective reality) but it decides to choose one anyway, because we are judging types - we want conclusions. While I automatically have empathy with all people, I do not extend my sympathies to all. Because I decide whether they are immoral or moral from the start and do not feel comfortable treating an immoral person with the same compassion I would a moral one. My Ti has made its decision - this immoral person is not going to be in my life. I am going to politely ensure that I do not have to be near them or allow them into my circle.

The other part is about conflict. I'm one of those INFJs that likes the idea of campaigning, of fighting for what's right, so even though I hate arguments, if I need to suffer conflict to stand up for what is right and good then I will do it. I have certainty in my moral judgements and am passionate about them, which means that were I to see someone bullied I would ensure I was standing by their side, even if it meant being in conflict. Conflict is horrible, but to the strong Ti INFJ, the individual must suffer for the group to thrive, and I am an individual.

That sounds a lot more selfless than it is. Remember that Fe may seem selfless but is not - the reason I would do all this is because I would feel uncomfortable not doing it. Like everyone else, the INFJ simply prefers to do what makes them feel comfortable.

 

[Broken705]

This was a more balanced example because both InvisibleJim and arbygil are pretty well-developed individuals. But abstractly, I mean it sort of like:

The problem I have with the second idea is that it supposes too much about people "earning" their position. People use words like "hobo" or talk about people working at McDonald's, and they get pegged as "losers". It's all their fault, because they didn't work hard enough to earn a better position within the construct. I don't like to think that way, because I haven't been in the other person's shoes. And when I think about it, I probably get along better with people that I've known who work at McDonald's than I would many CEOs, and I don't think that making more money makes a person superior.

And who's to say that the CEO earned anything? They could have been born with a silver spoon just as the hobo could have been born under very unfortunate circumstances.

 

[Orion]

The other part is about conflict. I'm one of those INFJs that likes the idea of campaigning, of fighting for what's right, so even though I hate arguments, if I need to suffer conflict to stand up for what is right and good then I will do it. I have certainty in my moral judgements and am passionate about them, which means that were I to see someone bullied I would ensure I was standing by their side, even if it meant being in conflict. Conflict is horrible, but to the strong Ti INFJ, the individual must suffer for the group to thrive, and I am an individual.

That sounds a lot more selfless than it is. Remember that Fe may seem selfless but is not - the reason I would do all this is because I would feel uncomfortable not doing it. Like everyone else, the INFJ simply prefers to do what makes them feel comfortable.

I am the same, you nailed it. In a way I can be seen as aggressive and confrontational- not an overtly Fe looking person. But this is the symbiotic and complex nature of Fe and Ti. Ti gives me the strength to stand up for what is right for others and the long term, under the influence of Ni. This temporarily harsh or difficult nature, crucially though, is fuelled by my Fe and what I feel is right. So though I may not be constantly regulating how I effect other's feeling (although 90% of the time I am), I am still adhering to a personal and objective ethical value system that is Fe.

However, I'm not saying Ti is responsible for this behaviour solely. There are strong Ti INFJ's who are completely pleasant and nice and never become aggressive or abrasive. That's just my personal way of dealing with things. I just wanted to make that clear.

 

[Arsal]

Fe judges this information and categorises into moral and immoral, but it does not go in there and decide to ignore the moral bits or a situation that is mostly immoral, Ti does that. Ti says well the most important parts of this situation/information are immoral, so who gives a shit if some bits of it are also good? If the most important part is immoral, then we may as well brand this entire thing as immoral.

I think you're slightly mistaken about what Ti does. You are still describing Fe, or rather Fi.

Ti is the part of us that brands others as "bad".

Fe/Fi.

While I automatically have empathy with all people, I do not extend my sympathies to all. Because I decide whether they are immoral or moral from the start and do not feel comfortable treating an immoral person with the same compassion I would a moral one. My Ti has made its decision - this immoral person is not going to be in my life. I am going to politely ensure that I do not have to be near them or allow them into my circle.

This is so ridiculously Fi/Te that I don't know what to say further.

The other part is about conflict. I'm one of those INFJs that likes the idea of campaigning, of fighting for what's right, so even though I hate arguments, if I need to suffer conflict to stand up for what is right and good then I will do it. I have certainty in my moral judgements and am passionate about them, which means that were I to see someone bullied I would ensure I was standing by their side, even if it meant being in conflict. Conflict is horrible, but to the strong Ti INFJ, the individual must suffer for the group to thrive, and I am an individual.

This would be an INFJ with a strong Fe, an INFJ with strong Ti would neutralize any strong moral judgments because that's what Ti does. I strongly suspect you're an INTJ however, because you're reflecting your tertiary Fi over Ti in your posts.