The Truth About Government

DevilDoll said:
That my family from the UP are stereotypical rednecks. Almost identical to what Chessie described as a southern person. *shrugs*
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Oh I know. People like that exist in every culture across the world, I just like to live in fantasy land and imagine that such people regardless of social class don't live in my beloved home state.
 
mf said:
Oh I know. People like that exist in every culture across the world, I just like to live in fantasy land and imagine that such people regardless of social class don't live in my beloved home state.
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I wish they didn't. Upper Michigan is so pretty. I'd love to live there, but they'd probably run me out of town with pitch forks.
 
DevilDoll said:
I wish they didn't. Upper Michigan is so pretty. I'd love to live there, but they'd probably run me out of town with pitch forks.
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That, and Lake Superior+winter-love for snowmobiling=terribly long winters.

You're right though, the scenery can be breathtaking.
 
mf said:
That, and Lake Superior+winter-love for snowmobiling=terribly long winters.

You're right though, the scenery can be breathtaking.
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I enjoyed the two weeks I spent there in July. But the two weeks I spent there last October was far too cold for me. I'm a southern girl born and bread, I can't deal with that kind of weather. Maybe I'll get a vacation home on Superior. That'd be nice.
 
DevilDoll said:
I enjoyed the two weeks I spent there in July. But the two weeks I spent there last October was far too cold for me. I'm a southern girl born and bread, I can't deal with that kind of weather. Maybe I'll get a vacation home on Superior. That'd be nice.
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You should get one by Pictured Rocks! They're breathtaking.
 
Chessie said:
Actually I admit it makes me a little bit ill. I have just had to move a garbage can slightly closer to my desk for fear my stomach will suddenly reverse course and upchuck the strawberry banana smoothie I had for lunch.

Being born in that mentally disturbed corner of the world is a thing I have long since considered one of my great weaknesses and I take some pride in climbing out of it.

As to your reply,
I was out of toilet paper and happened to have a confederate flag so at least I can say those colors have saved me once, although I cannot say they didn't have some runs.

The tea so sweet a straw would stand up is a fond memory for me too. Watching all those diabetic rednecks drawling out their last death rattle laying in a puddle of urine at a Nascar rally from choking it down is another.

I remember fondly those parasites from catching, killing, and cooking one's own food. Ahhh, the tapeworms and blood infections.

So too, the joys and nostalgia I feel thinking of the trips to church on Sunday and knowing all the preachers still had the smell of semen on their breath when they'd pass the communal wine down the way and I'd get a hint of salty-backwash.

It was a great time under the enforced brain-washing conformity all wrapped up in the goodygoody Christ-love but only so long as you're not gay. Those were grand moments in my life, particularly hearing the street-corner preachers shrieking about the federal government coming to abort everyone's babies.

I do remember all that sweating and bleeding. It was a fantastic time, laying on your back in the hot noon-day sun, watching latinos, blacks, and other immigrants sweat and bleed for that brain-damaged image of a South un-tarnished by amoral folk.

Now, we have the Tea Party! Another beautiful expression of Southern intellect here to save us from them muslim presidential terror babies wantin' to tax our earnings to send grandma in front of a death panel.
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You are a negative nancy.
 
Chessie said:
Actually I admit it makes me a little bit ill. I have just had to move a garbage can slightly closer to my desk for fear my stomach will suddenly reverse course and upchuck the strawberry banana smoothie I had for lunch.

Being born in that mentally disturbed corner of the world is a thing I have long since considered one of my great weaknesses and I take some pride in climbing out of it.

As to your reply,
I was out of toilet paper and happened to have a confederate flag so at least I can say those colors have saved me once, although I cannot say they didn't have some runs.

The tea so sweet a straw would stand up is a fond memory for me too. Watching all those diabetic rednecks drawling out their last death rattle laying in a puddle of urine at a Nascar rally from choking it down is another.

I remember fondly those parasites from catching, killing, and cooking one's own food. Ahhh, the tapeworms and blood infections.

So too, the joys and nostalgia I feel thinking of the trips to church on Sunday and knowing all the preachers still had the smell of semen on their breath when they'd pass the communal wine down the way and I'd get a hint of salty-backwash.

It was a great time under the enforced brain-washing conformity all wrapped up in the goodygoody Christ-love but only so long as you're not gay. Those were grand moments in my life, particularly hearing the street-corner preachers shrieking about the federal government coming to abort everyone's babies.

I do remember all that sweating and bleeding. It was a fantastic time, laying on your back in the hot noon-day sun, watching latinos, blacks, and other immigrants sweat and bleed for that brain-damaged image of a South un-tarnished by amoral folk.

Now, we have the Tea Party! Another beautiful expression of Southern intellect here to save us from them muslim presidential terror babies wantin' to tax our earnings to send grandma in front of a death panel.
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What I don't get is why you act like you do. I can go toe-to-toe with almost anybody and not become so vehemently upset. Why are you acting this way? What are you defending? what are you thinking? Are you simply trying to make a point?

Your one big question mark, if I was going to go out on a limb I would say that your the one suppressing or possibly repressing something. If it's personal then I won't ask, but think about doing some introspection would really help here or possibly finding a confidant to talk about this to.

Let's drop the ridicules for a moment find out who Chessie is.
 
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I think the idea of government, in a mixed economy, was that it was supposed to protect us from the oppressive effect of big money (the capitalist class)

Big money gets big by seeking profits

To increase your profit margins you have to make cuts elsewhere. These cuts are often taken from workers pay or workers conditions.

Government is supposed to protect the workers (the working class) and make sure that they are paid enough and treated well

The problem is that the government is entirely usurped by big money. This means that instead of protecting us, government is instead used by big money as a way of exploiting us and controlling us so that we won't do anything about the fact that we are being exploited

In order to maintain the illusion that the government is protecting us and not the super rich capitalist class it must lie to and deceive the working class

Government is failing and change must inevitably come. To remove the government and yet keep the capitalist system would however be catastrophic because then there would be no intermediary between the people and their exploitation by the super rich

In order to get rid of the government and avoid the exploitation of the people you must change the system to one in which power is then held by the people
 
muir said:
I think the idea of government, in a mixed economy, was that it was supposed to protect us from the oppressive effect of big money (the capitalist class)

Big money gets big by seeking profits

To increase your profit margins you have to make cuts elsewhere. These cuts are often taken from workers pay or workers conditions.

Government is supposed to protect the workers (the working class) and make sure that they are paid enough and treated well

The problem is that the government is entirely usurped by big money. This means that instead of protecting us, government is instead used by big money as a way of exploiting us and controlling us so that we won't do anything about the fact that we are being exploited

In order to maintain the illusion that the government is protecting us and not the super rich capitalist class it must lie to and deceive the working class

Government is failing and change must inevitably come. To remove the government and yet keep the capitalist system would however be catastrophic because then there would be no intermediary between the people and their exploitation by the super rich

In order to get rid of the government and avoid the exploitation of the people you must change the system to one in which power is then held by the people
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It is a rather remarkable story in the Bible of the Jewish people. Part of it was when they saw other nations' having Kings and such. They then wanted someone over them. They had God but wanted man. It caused complications, I must say.

There are situations a King would do best rather than people's making their own decisions. All governments are not bad, and people are for the most part the problems with governments. Don't read anything into this, as that is as far as I would like to take that train of thought.
 
There was a group of Judaens called the essenes who believed in common ownership and violence only in self defence. They believed strongly in controlling their temper and maintaining peace and didn't believe in swearing oaths or in animal sacrifice. Due to common ownership they did not engage in trade.

It is believed that the dead sea scrolls might have been their library.

It his highly likely that if Jesus is a historical figure that he was a member of the Essenes, which explains his peaceful views and friction with the Pharisees and Saducees.

Kinda like early socialists!
 
muir said:
There was a group of Judaens called the essenes who believed in common ownership and violence only in self defence. They believed strongly in controlling their temper and maintaining peace and didn't believe in swearing oaths or in animal sacrifice. Due to common ownership they did not engage in trade.

It is believed that the dead sea scrolls might have been their library.

It his highly likely that if Jesus is a historical figure that he was a member of the Essenes, which explains his peaceful views and friction with the Pharisees and Saducees.

Kinda like early socialists!
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The lack of a noun points to the last you used, meaning the Pharisees and Saducees were kinda like early socialists. However, I get this feeling you are not talking about them.

Jesus was bringing in a new order of law and was therefore always differing with the leaders of the day's points of view regarding law. I seem to feel he was really trying to teach them rather than just disagree with them. He was to be rejected by those leaders so He could reach out to the rest of the world. In doing so, it brought condemnation upon Him.

I have not studied the Essenes, so cannot reply regarding your claim. I can agree Jesus was and is a historical figure.

Government can work if people could act the way they should. Taxes are not paid by many people, as they try to keep all the money and hide their income. Government programs are taken advantage of so badly it is embarrassing, even by people that have no legal right to those programs. There is as much corruption by the people as there is by the government.

A jewelry salesman walked out of his tent in Saudi Arabia to get a couple more necklaces from his brother to sell a customer that wanted one for each of his wives. A friend of mine was all of a sudden standing alone by the tables, as everyone else had stepped back away from the tables. He asked what was wrong and was told his hand would be cut off should he be found to be a thief. Sounds terrible and that was 25 or so years ago, but it worked there and might not work here. Funny how some people were walking around with no hands; guess their feet were to be next.

Controlling temper and maintaining peace leads to a more healthy, abundant life. I have to doubt Jesus was part of a group that did not believe in animal sacrifice, though He presented His own Body as a sacrifice to take place of animal sacrifices and took place as the High Priest to take the place of yearly remembrance of sin. We may very well live to see a government of sorts He would have.
 
Yup that was bad use of language by me...i did of course mean the Essenes were kinda prototype socialists.

Here is a clip by US economist Michael Hudson. He has worked on wallstreet and in US universities and he is an advisor to governments. He has studied ancient sumerian texts and found that each time a new ruler came into power he would write down debts to the ability to pay. Using this method the ancient world managed to avoid economic bubbles for 3000 years!

He says the sumerians were using economic equations more complex than modern economists. Now you can take two points of view on that. You could say that modern economists are incompetent, which is why we have periodic economic crisis or you could if you were feeling conspiratorial ;) argue that there is a ryhme and reason as to why we have had various economic crisis, which lets face it have seen the bankers get richer, not poorer!

Anyway it's an interesting clip because as he explains we didn't have to bail out the banks. Also at about 4.48 the interviewer asks why aren't the governments writing off the debts. Hudson replies very clearly that the reason is that the governments true constituents are the financiers.

Put simply this means that the government represent the interests of the capitalist class not the working class

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pwAFohWBL4"]YouTube - Six Minutes with the Renegade Economist - Michael Hudson Special...[/ame]
 
just me said:
A jewelry salesman walked out of his tent in Saudi Arabia to get a couple more necklaces from his brother to sell a customer that wanted one for each of his wives. A friend of mine was all of a sudden standing alone by the tables, as everyone else had stepped back away from the tables. He asked what was wrong and was told his hand would be cut off should he be found to be a thief. Sounds terrible and that was 25 or so years ago, but it worked there and might not work here. Funny how some people were walking around with no hands; guess their feet were to be next.
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Interesting that you brought this up. It's pretty irrelevant to the thread, so I apologize, just it fits really well with this. The other day I was talking with some people about the Disney film Aladdin and how in the song talks about cutting off hands (ridiculous representation of Middle Eastern countries because only Saudi Arabia legal holds this portion of Sharia law). Anyway, it's my understanding that you get your hands cut off after your third strike essentially. Anyone know if this is true?
 
This thread turned out more interesting than I thought it would be.
 
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