the Utopia

lol, that is the great question...

are we, as humanity, ever see this Utopia? or is War the only answer?
 
If we can imagine it, and practice it in our personal lives in our interactions with others, I think it is possible.. However.. it would take a mass consensus.. and not the kind of consensus in which people are brainwashed into. So it seems impossible.
 
Motor Jax said:
lol, that is the great question...

are we, as humanity, ever see this Utopia? or is War the only answer?
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There are entire theories presenting Utopian systems. Anarchism being probably the most controversial. Marxism too. Problem is, in order to create a utopia according to these theories, you first must annihilate the opposing forces.

here I quote P.Kropotkin:
"And the System shall be built upon the bloodied corpses of those who use and abuse power. The revolution must be painted red." (loose translation from Greek, I have not read the book in English, book: Anarchism).

It's the means of forcing such a system to others that is probably problematic. Imagine that even Muslim extremists consider that they are fighting for a Utopia under Gods Law (sariah).

So, I guess until one force destroys every opponent and creates its own world, there can be no peace. But what it could later establish could easily be a dystopia, rather than a Utopia. Pretty much reminds me of Huntington and the Clash of civilizations.
 
Taz said:
There are entire theories presenting Utopian systems. Anarchism being probably the most controversial. Marxism too. Problem is, in order to create a utopia according to these theories, you first must annihilate the opposing forces.
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Taz said:
So, I guess until one force destroys every opponent and creates its own world, there can be no peace. But what it could later establish could easily be a dystopia, rather than a Utopia. Pretty much reminds me of Huntington and the Clash of civilizations.
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I don't think so. Just because that is the way people have always revolted doesn't mean that is the way it always will be. Might it be possible that a new consciousness through social evolution will arise in which people will see no need to kill one another but will be able to come to a consensus as to how they want to live together? Seems unlikely, certainly, but I wouldn't say impossible.

This is kinda/kinda not off topic.. but..
Do you think the Indusrial era will ever end? And what could be the era after that? Just being imaginative here.. but if in the distant future the Industrial era does end, how do you think people will be living? I imagine they'd be much more cooperative with one another..
 
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merrytrees said:
I don't think so. Just because that is the way people have always revolted doesn't mean that is the way it always will be. Might it be possible that a new consciousness through social evolution will arise in which people will see no need to kill one another but will be able to come to a consensus as to how they want to live together? Seems unlikely, certainly, but I wouldn't say impossible.
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Impossible? Of course not. How could we possibly know for sure? But it's certain that our bloodline will never see a world like this. And we could also assume that we will be destroyed as a species before we reach this kind of understanding. But that's just pessimistic thinking I guess. Only time will tell.
 
Or maybe we will nearly wipe ourselves out, somehow survive.. and figure none of that was worth it.. and decide to live in harmony. But I am an optimist.
 
This is kinda/kinda not off topic.. but..
Do you think the Indusrial era will ever end? And what could be the era after that? Just being imaginative here.. but if in the distant future the Industrial era does end, how do you think people will be living? I imagine they'd be much more cooperative with one another..
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There is the thought of a Resource based Economy. Pretty much the Utopia that the machines do all the work. There is a documentary which explains some of this stuff. But it's just a small part of it, and the rest is more or less leftish propaganda. I'm reffering to the second part of Zeitgeist. And I wouldn't really recommend it unless you are a bit of a conspiracy theorist...
 
merrytrees said:
Or maybe we will nearly wipe ourselves out, somehow survive.. and figure none of that was worth it.. and decide to live in harmony. But I am an optimist.
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I dont think that would work, but I admire your optimism.
 
I know you do, when you're not roasting me for it! lol
 
I'm pretty much a pessimist. I think the majority of people want peace and harmony, but the majority of world leaders and warlords don't. Hurt feelings/old conflicts prevail and everyone's point of view becomes a selfish, childish one. Those old feelings never really go away, even when people shout "PEACE"

If the heart issues aren't dealt with - if people aren't transformed into accepting their fellow man as a fellow man - then you will always have war and conflict.
 
arbygil said:
I'm pretty much a pessimist. I think the majority of people want peace and harmony, but the majority of world leaders and warlords don't. Hurt feelings/old conflicts prevail and everyone's point of view becomes a selfish, childish one. Those old feelings never really go away, even when people shout "PEACE"

If the heart issues aren't dealt with - if people aren't transformed into accepting their fellow man as a fellow man - then you will always have war and conflict.
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Agreed. Problems lead to business opportunites. Since everyone in the country wants to make money, the gov. must think of ways to do it. This is an obvious easy way to create money making opportunities. Also it help the gov. to look busy.
 
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