Things vs Feelings

[donkeybals]

You are right to an extent. But this isn't 100% accurate.

"People don't want things. In fact people couldn't care less about things."

People DO want things. People want (and need) things to feel things.

For instance, I want to be organized, so I use organizational things like storage bins notebooks, calendars, etc to be organized, otherwise I wouldn't achieve this goal.

There's also things people want, to do things they don't want, so they can later do things they do want to do.

 

[Poetic Justice]

You are right to an extent. But this isn't 100% accurate.

"People don't want things. In fact people couldn't care less about things."

People DO want things. People want (and need) things to feel things.

For instance, I want to be organized, so I use organizational things like storage bins notebooks, calendars, etc to be organized, otherwise I wouldn't achieve this goal.

There's also things people want, to do things they don't want, so they can later do things they do want to do.

I agree with your first objection. I actually deleted and re wrote the sentence you quoted a couple of times.

I don't think your last paragraph is relevant though. People do things they don't want to do in anticipation of being able to do things they want to do or to avoid the negative feelings of the consequences of not doing them. I don't see how this contradicts my op

 

[Korg]

I agree completely. Everything that every person does comes down to one single motivation every time: they want to FEEL something. Namely, a positive emotion and the avoidance of negative ones.

Example:
"I want a fancy car that's tricked out" = "I want to be perceived a certain way" = "I want feel relevant / powerful / special"

Also:

People DO want things. People want (and need) things to feel things.

Isn't that the premise of the OP?

 

[Bloom]

People don't want things.
What people want is the feelings

I agree

 

[Poetic Justice]

Donkeybals objection is just a technicality. An unfortunate consequence of the language i used to describe the idea. The idea itself is sound though i think

Thank you for pointing this out though. Clarity of communication is key

 

[Korg]

Also, I am not a Tony Robbins fan by any stretch but he has covered this concept in detail.

 

[Stu]

mmmm, how do they activate memories (memories of useful feelings)............

 

[donkeybals]

My main point is it's not always as simple we do x to get y which is some type of emotion. We do a lot of things to satisfy our urges, and a lot of things we do is by natural instict. Not to obtain a certain emotion. Like think of a shark eating a fish. Is he doing this because he wants to "feel something" or is he just doing this because he's hungry and just being a shark and trying to survive. You can say "oh but we aren't sharks", but we do have a reptilian brain - the medulla. Human minds are more complex, we have a logical part and emotional part as well. But the reptllian mind acts upon natural instincts much like the shark and don't always feed our emotional minds.

 

[Korg]

My main point is it's not always as simple we do x to get y which is some type of emotion. We do a lot of things to satisfy our urges, and a lot of things we do is by natural instict. Not to obtain a certain emotion. Like think of a shark eating a fish. Is he doing this because he wants to "feel something" or is he just doing this because he's hungry and just being a shark and trying to survive. You can say "oh but we aren't sharks", but we do have a reptilian brain - the medulla. Human minds are more complex, we have a logical part and emotional part as well. But the reptllian mind acts upon natural instincts much like the shark and don't always feed our emotional minds.

Satiation of urges = increasing the emotion of pleasure and decreasing the emotion of pain.

 

[donkeybals]

Explain this from a sharks point of view who don't have emotional minds. I'd really like to hear this.

 

[kucala]

I completely agree with this.

 

[Vanixaria]

Ah, I suspected you were continuing the subjective/objective debate. I think this question maybe belongs on that thread.

I had an answer written out before but deleted it because I wasn't sure if it was comprehensive or not. O even if thats what you meant

Well, here it is again:

Things give us feelings by generalisation, activating memories of a time where the feeling was previously useful in a similar situation, activating genetic memories and tactile sensations. There are exceptions like music which is pretty difficult to understand fully. but I think that is about it.

There are probably holes in this. I look forward to seeing if you can spot them.

I believe all nouns (to encompass it all) grant sensation that we in turn attribute to some emotion. I feel we do this in everything, not just when gaining possession of inanimate objects. I am a bit more abstract with the exception of my teddy bear as a child. I do things for a certain feeling. Say "hello" to feel normal, get a response, maybe to feel good because I brightened someone's day. Action too causes emotion, and if that emotion is good, then we continue the action though that brings addiction most of the time I'm afraid.

On a side note if you meant "things" to refer to actions as well then I apologize. The term usually implies inanimate objects.

 

[Poetic Justice]

I believe all nouns (to encompass it all) grant sensation that we in turn attribute to some emotion. I feel we do this in everything, not just when gaining possession of inanimate objects. I am a bit more abstract with the exception of my teddy bear as a child. I do things for a certain feeling. Say "hello" to feel normal, get a response, maybe to feel good because I brightened someone's day. Action too causes emotion, and if that emotion is good, then we continue the action though that brings addiction most of the time I'm afraid.

On a side note if you meant "things" to refer to actions as well then I apologize. The term usually implies inanimate objects.

Ah, thank you. Another mistake on my part. By things i meant everything. Objects, people, skills, thoughts. Everything

 

[Poetic Justice]

mmmm, how do they activate memories (memories of useful feelings)............

A man points a gun at you. It is likely that this has never happened to you before but you would have seen it on tv. The man points the gun at you and you generalise this situation using the memory of some violent situation you have experienced either in real life or on tv or whatever.

This prompts the useful feeling of fear which either causes you to freeze, run away, fight or plead for your life.

You buy a new pair of jeans. On some level you believe wearing fancy new clothes increases your social status or sexual attractiveness. Which, lets be honest, it does. Or can do depending on you taste in clothes. This makes you feel good so you associate this good feeling with wearing new clothes. This feeling is useful because wearing new clothes can indeed increase your social status and sexual attractiveness making you more likely to mate and pass on your genes.

 

[Stu]

Why don't you try seeing if you can learn something instead of fishing (without success) for things you can refute?

I feel hostility toward this (^) snarky remark

I am interested in the mental mechanism that is "feeling" how that is related to "emotion" and how they govern our perception of reality.

 

[Poetic Justice]

I feel hostility toward this (^) snarky remark

I am interested in the mental mechanism that is "feeling" how that is related to "emotion" and how they govern our perception of reality.

I actually just deleted that. You must have just caught it.

I apologise. I believe i may have jumped the gun.

Ahem... as you were

 

[Korg]

Explain this from a sharks point of view who don't have emotional minds. I'd really like to hear this.

Sharks were a loose analogy, not representative of the OP which was about people.

 

[Nixie]

Also, I am not a Tony Robbins fan by any stretch but he has covered this concept in detail.

You automatically lose points by admitting you have read/watched Tony Robbins. Why don't you just quote Dr. Phil next time? *shakes head, gives sad/disgusted look*

Nice thread BTW Poetic Injustice. I would say I agree on premise. However, it would probably be more accurate to say that people don't understand that it isn't "things" they want but the feelings they facilitate. I would state that people do want "things" and they do have "value" in their eyes. It is just a quesiton of enlightenment and personal development that enable you to see a deeper level of living and learning.

 

[Nixie]

My main point is it's not always as simple we do x to get y which is some type of emotion. We do a lot of things to satisfy our urges, and a lot of things we do is by natural instict. Not to obtain a certain emotion. Like think of a shark eating a fish. Is he doing this because he wants to "feel something" or is he just doing this because he's hungry and just being a shark and trying to survive. You can say "oh but we aren't sharks", but we do have a reptilian brain - the medulla. Human minds are more complex, we have a logical part and emotional part as well. But the reptllian mind acts upon natural instincts much like the shark and don't always feed our emotional minds.

To be fair, we have no idea if sharks feel or have any concrete way of determining if they feel. We also can only judge said shark feelings by our own standards which may not match/be suitable for a shark.

 

[donkeybals]

Sharks were a loose analogy, not representative of the OP which was about people.

What analogy? I'm stating facts. Everything we do isn't based on emotion. We have basic core functions that operate before sensory input registers into the emotional center of the brain.