[INFJ] This will make you rage

acd said:
We even have Lindsay Graham suggesting another look at qualified immunity!
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The problem with this is that it makes individual LEOs legally liable for situations in which the government is responsible.

The fact that a police officer is obliged to carry a firearm and sometimes discharge deadly force is not his or her fault.
 
Reason said:
This whole response is predicated on the idea that America is just going to disappear from world leadership instead of sunsetting itself over time. There's more to discuss I'm sure but that's for another thread with a different topic.
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It's not predicated on that, but the conversation about how to strike that balance needs to be had for sure.

Britain went through its own 'sunsetting' period, as the system of imperial preference was gradually dismantled and the nation had to restructure itself to compete in a different global economy. However, in that case our ride was pretty smooth because we were handing over to an extremely close ally who basically kept everything intact.

In the case of the US, that's not necessarily going to happen. The changeover may be much more damaging and the decline more precipitous, especially if the US makes any overt moves of withdrawal.

But yeah, this is for another time.
 
acd said:
I think we have more chance of societal breakdown if nothing changes. If there is no reform. That trust must be rebuilt. I'm not exactly sure what it will take but I think it's a worthy discussion to have. We even have Lindsay Graham suggesting another look at qualified immunity!
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I don't think people make perfect choices in life or death situations. Stripping away police protections I think is also going to massively discourages recruitment.

And no society will not break down, order will be restored one way or another.

I'd really rather not be right about something so depressing but our generation has an imbalance between emotion and rationality. To either extreme it manifests in most people nowadays.

Edit: it's this imbalance that prevents us from being able to solve complex issues like these.
 
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Even if society collapsed, life would continue.

A true extinction of humanity even by global warming is unlikely. Those who survived would adapt, we might lose technology and history but there's many theorists who think this has already happened several times in human existence.

If we want change... The answer is compassion and love towards one another, not fear. All of this defunding of the police and oh let's not look at the cop perspective because they're not capable of change and we're past bridging the gap; that's fear, fear, fear.

And we all want to dance around it don't we.

It's fear that causes racism and police officers to act with violence.

So how can fear be the solution? It can't be and I think everyone knows that on a certain level, it just feels good to be afraid, it makes our monkey brains light up and we feel vindicated. And that's why it isn't being solved, why none of these theories solve anything: you tackle a problem with the same exact thing that creates it.

Of course... What's new? This is all of human history. And we do have times where we are able to embrace love and empathy and real amazing things happen. But they are rare and we can never maintain that state.. because that's also human nature.

So we spin spin spin in our own self created hells. look! Another external problem!

But what if it's me? What if I am the problem? My lack of connection with the self, that I would be so bothered by the external, that I would think I can control the behavior of others. No... We lead by example, as much as our monkey brains will allow anyway. After all it's polarity and we all sink back into this meaningless uproar about what ultimately has happened over and over and over again in time! And will just happen again. But the fight within all of You to want to change. That energy is the energy that does change things. Funnel it to the self! Heal the self, heal the world...
 
Thing is everyone feels afraid right now. The only people who don’t are sociopaths. So, who’s going to provide that love and compassion?

Those with the most material means to provide are usually the least emotionally willing to give.
And that is the problem, isn’t it?
 
Chickensoup said:
Thing is everyone feels afraid right now. The only people who don’t are sociopaths. So, who’s going to provide that love and compassion?

Those with the most material means to provide are usually the least emotionally willing to give.
And that is the problem, isn’t it?
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It's possible to not feel afraid and not be a sociopath. Fear is a choice.
 
Chickensoup said:
Thing is everyone feels afraid right now. The only people who don’t are sociopaths. So, who’s going to provide that love and compassion?

Those with the most material means to provide are usually the least emotionally willing to give.
And that is the problem, isn’t it?
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Anyone with a heart can give love and compassion, don't you think?
 
slant said:
It's possible to not feel afraid and not be a sociopath. Fear is a choice.
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We can choose to confront our fears, ignore it, watch it, live with it, deny it, or externalize it & blame someone else for it. The choice is in managing the fear, not in its existence. This is my opinion.

I am generalizing, but I mean it literally. We are living in a global pandemic, which means everyone on this planet is living in a heightened state of fear. Except again, for the sociopaths.

To compensate, you can increase the love and compassion, as you mentioned. Totally valid method. My question is, who’s providing all that extra love and care?

hithere said:
Anyone with a heart can give love and compassion, don't you think?
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Ah, yes but that doesn’t mean it’s given - it’s not, and certainly not to everyone. Also, it’s not right to ask it from some, though many do.
 
Chickensoup said:
We can choose to confront our fears, ignore it, watch it, live with it, deny it, or externalize it & blame someone else for it. The choice is in managing the fear, not in its existence. This is my opinion.

I am generalizing, but I mean it literally. We are living in a global pandemic, which means everyone on this planet is living in a heightened state of fear. Except again, for the sociopaths.

To compensate, you can increase the love and compassion, as you mentioned. Totally valid method. My question is, who’s providing all that extra love and care?



Ah, yes but that doesn’t mean it’s given - it’s not, and certainly not to everyone. Also, it’s not right to ask it from some, though many do.
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Agree to disagree
 
Reason said:
But it is the future
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It is if people don't quit wanting it.
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Chickensoup said:
Thing is everyone feels afraid right now. The only people who don’t are sociopaths. So, who’s going to provide that love and compassion?

Those with the most material means to provide are usually the least emotionally willing to give.
And that is the problem, isn’t it?
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Or Partay Peoplez!

https://djmag.com/news/exit-festiva... Festival is expected,dates in July to August.

Or Belgians!

https://www.hln.be/nieuws/herbeleef-hier-de-anderhalve-meter-borrel~a04403ae/
 
Something I've been wondering about re the police stuff: A police force composed entirely of the people who criticize the police would be less violent, even though one of those people joining wouldn't do much. So why did those people not join and the people that did join, did instead?

Could we create a parallel "Neighborhood watch" or something and rebrand it to allow for different applicants?
 
In the Wings said:
Something I've been wondering about re the police stuff: A police force composed entirely of the people who criticize the police would be less violent, even though one of those people joining wouldn't do much. So why did those people not join and the people that did join, did instead?

Could we create a parallel "Neighborhood watch" or something and rebrand it to allow for different applicants?
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Such people would become 'police' within a very short time frame - it's not a question of right or wrong individuals mainly, but how the structure and pressures of the office create the behaviours we see.
 
Deleted member 16771 said:
Such people would become 'police' within a very short time frame - it's not a question of right or wrong individuals mainly, but how the structure and pressures of the office create the behaviours we see.
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I'm not sure it's all institutional--after all, plenty of police officers don't go on to shoot civilians, or even rack up complaints like the George Floyd one did. The institution likely increases the likelihood though.

I agree it's likely something besides existing political views that causes people to act out though. Maybe a neuroticism thing. And of course police killings are really only a piece of the issue, I'm not sure that the greater arrests would be solved.
 
More police officers were killed last year by blacks than blacks were killed by police officers. Enough of this black and white foolishness.

ALL LIVES MATTER!

Where is the prejudice in those words? As God would have you all to know and understand, there is no difference.

Galatians 3:28

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Where is the wise man among you? Let him acknowledge how God sees us all as one. I have a problem with BLM; it is racial. ALL lives matter to God. Civil strife is no way to teach people of our likeness. MLK spoke of equality. There is no equality as long as one is treated differently from the other. Driving a stake into the heart of the problem will only cause more strife. Do you seek to destroy our nation? You are an enemy of our nation. Change comes from within.
 
just me said:
More police officers were killed last year by blacks than blacks were killed by police officers. Enough of this black and white foolishness.

ALL LIVES MATTER!

Where is the prejudice in those words? As God would have you all to know and understand, there is no difference.

Galatians 3:28

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.”

Where is the wise man among you? Let him acknowledge how God sees us all as one. I have a problem with BLM; it is racial. ALL lives matter to God. Civil strife is no way to teach people of our likeness. MLK spoke of equality. There is no equality as long as one is treated differently from the other. Driving a stake into the heart of the problem will only cause more strife. Do you seek to destroy our nation? You are an enemy of our nation. Change comes from within.
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Equality comes only after we acknowledge there's a problem and make changes to fix it. Race can be transcended once we acknowledge differences.
 
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