[INFJ] This will make you rage

acd said:
I just hope that if Biden wins, he appoints Obama to SCOTUS. The idea of right wingers and white supremacists wetting themselves in a rage for the next decade or 2 is utterly delicious.
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I think he already said he wasn't going to though, but things can change I suppose. Seems that Kamala Harris is the frontrunner currently.
 
acd said:
He said awhile ago he'd nominate Obama if Obama would accept.
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Right, sorry my wording wasn't clear, what I meant was that Obama has already preemptively declined
 
acd said:
A gal can dream lol.
I'm sure there are plenty of other hijinks (good choices or infinitely better than any Trump pick) he can make. I didn't hear about Obama declining or KH.
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Nothing is set in stone yet, certainly ;)
 
slant said:
What are y'all gonna do, go assassinate Trump? Yeah it sucks. Everyone knows that. There's no solution. If you think voting for Biden is a solution that's still in the future, not now. So as of now nobody has any control whatsoever about who is the elected official and honestly, this is not about Trump.

Everyone's anger is misdirected.

Who elected Trump? The state of the nation and population is the problem and until you understand why people voted for Trump and address those people you're never going to solve the problem. The fact is that there is a large amount of the population who agrees with Trump's policies and perspectives, despite what the news media will tell you.
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Correct.

I do not like Trump. I didn't vote for him in 2016 and I won't vote for him in 2020. Nor will I vote for Biden -- and you (they royal you) can spare me the bullshit about how not voting for Biden (or a third party) is a vote for Trump. It isn't.

But people are angry and frustrated as you correctly pointed out. They are spilling out into the street and rightfully so because political corruption in both parties has excluded much of the population from the prosperity they have helped create and are entitled to as working citizens. But a fringe ideology has redirected the frustration away from the actual problem towards one another under the guise of prejudice (among other things). I'm specifically talking about intersectionality here; it's a malignantly cancerous secular religion that has woven itself into society and is rotting us from the inside out, just like any kind of religious thinking does when it reaches a zenith.
 
Korg said:
Correct.

I do not like Trump. I didn't vote for him in 2016 and I won't vote for him in 2020. Nor will I vote for Biden -- and you (they royal you) can spare me the bullshit about how not voting for Biden (or a third party) is a vote for Trump. It isn't.

But people are angry and frustrated as you correctly pointed out. They are spilling out into the street and rightfully so because political corruption in both parties has excluded much of the population from the prosperity they have helped create and are entitled to as working citizens. But a fringe ideology has redirected the frustration away from the actual problem towards one another under the guise of prejudice (among other things). I'm specifically talking about intersectionality here; it's a malignantly cancerous secular religion that has woven itself into society and is rotting us from the inside out, just like any kind of religious thinking does when it reaches a zenith.
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I am not a fan of postmodernism either and it's difficult to navigate society because of it, as a major tenant of postmodernism is the

"You're with us or against us" mentality that leaves no room for individual thought and nuance. It's frustrating and I haven't found a way to talk about it to postmodernists because they have trigger phrases and begin to tune you out and argue preselected points.

This is why I have a habit now of purposefully starting jokes or conversations with statements that will jar these reactions.

I used to tell people "I don't believe in gay marriage." And watch as people who thought I was in their political camp lost their minds and assassinated my character.

After letting them freak out, some... Very few... Would ask me why. I would then say,

"I don't believe in marriage at all."

Instantly their faces change and they ask me why I didn't say that in the first place. Probably because I'm trying to illustrate a point. People don't listen, and they don't actually care to have a real discussion. Polarization of BOTH sides of the spectrum is off the charts and again I feel this is the result of social media and algorithms feeding people the biased info they want. Everyone lives in a bubble.

Not really anyone's fault though, I do believe it's an unanticipated consequence of multiple technologies converging at the same time to create this climate. And you know, humans always become less rational in groups, we thrive on conflict. Nothing has really changed; it's just changed forms with technology.
 
slant said:
Probably because I'm trying to illustrate a point. People don't listen, and they don't actually care to have a real discussion.
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I was frustrated by this exact same thing for years until I had the epiphany that I'm engaging religious fundamentalists who want to preserve their belief system at all costs. It explains almost everything about their behavior.

For example, the point you were trying to make about marriage is clever and valid and should advance the dialog, but it falls on deaf ears just like making points about geological data falls on deaf ears when engaging Christian fundamentalists about the age of the earth. They refuse to hear your words because it threatens their beliefs. To reconcile them, they need to invalidate you on moral grounds since the data itself can't be directly falsified. Notice how most criticisms coming from the rabidly woke crowd use accusatory moral language -- bigot, racist, nazi, evil, phobic and so forth. Their essential claim isn't that what you're saying is wrong, it's that you are wrong for saying it. It's sad, but they really are that offended all the time. That was a particularly horrifying realization to me.


It should be no surprise this zealotry is most noticeable among secular, educated, affluent whites. Living in a developed but socially disconnected world where most of their survival needs are met, ancient mythological religion doesn't offer much so to assuage the existential pressure, they adopt new values -- public opinions which, aside from providing meaning (no matter how ridiculous), allows them to cultivate a self image of belonging to a sophisticated and elite community of good people.


slant said:
Polarization of BOTH sides of the spectrum is off the charts and again I feel this is the result of social media and algorithms feeding people the biased info they want. Everyone lives in a bubble.

Not really anyone's fault though, I do believe it's an unanticipated consequence of multiple technologies converging at the same time to create this climate. And you know, humans always become less rational in groups, we thrive on conflict. Nothing has really changed; it's just changed forms with technology.
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I wish it were that simple, but I believe technology is only a facilitator of the problem, not the problem itself. This kind of divisive rhetoric has been happening for a lot longer than social media and even the internet has been around.
 
Korg said:
I was frustrated by this exact same thing for years until I had the epiphany that I'm engaging religious fundamentalists who want to preserve their belief system at all costs. It explains almost everything about their behavior.

For example, the point you were trying to make about marriage is clever and valid and should advance the dialog, but it falls on deaf ears just like making points about geological data falls on deaf ears when engaging Christian fundamentalists about the age of the earth. They refuse to hear your words because it threatens their beliefs. To reconcile them, they need to invalidate you on moral grounds since the data itself can't be directly falsified. Notice how most criticisms coming from the rabidly woke crowd use accusatory moral language -- bigot, racist, nazi, evil, phobic and so forth. Their essential claim isn't that what you're saying is wrong, it's that you are wrong for saying it. It's sad, but they really are that offended all the time. That was a particularly horrifying realization to me.


It should be no surprise this zealotry is most noticeable among secular, educated, affluent whites. Living in a developed but socially disconnected world where most of their survival needs are met, ancient mythological religion doesn't offer much so to assuage the existential pressure, they adopt new values -- public opinions which, aside from providing meaning (no matter how ridiculous), allows them to cultivate a self image of belonging to a sophisticated and elite community of good people.




I wish it were that simple, but I believe technology is only a facilitator of the problem, not the problem itself. This kind of divisive rhetoric has been happening for a lot longer than social media and even the internet has been around.
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Just to clarify to your response to that last bit; I agree. All I was trying to say is that the introduction of this technology has changed the format, the way it is done and created new representations of it. But I agree that it's essentially human nature; social media just cleverly capitalizes on what has, and what always will, exist.

That's kinda why I try not to allow myself to get to invested or upset about it since these conflicts, these opposing point of views, have always existed and will always exist... It's the nature of being alive. that's why this starry eyed idealism from any political point of view that when x y z happens society will be all right... Society is never going to be alright. As soon as you fix one problem another crops up, sometimes something that isn't really a problem is then fixated on because the previous problems got solved so now we need something else to work on.

Humans like the illusion of progress more than the actual progress itself because once the goal is achieved we are already focusing on what else isn't right and how to fix it. It never ends. I'm not saying we shouldn't try to fix things but it's funny how peoples convince themselves that only if x y z happens will they be satisfied. Never happens. They're satisfied for like 2 seconds until they move on to what else to be upset about.

I kinda went on a ramble there, but thanks for your thoughts, @Korg , I always enjoy them. We think similarly and I'm always very impressed by your insights.
 
You're welcome. Thank you for your thoughts as well.

I am discovering there are a lot of genuinely good people out there who still want economic freedom, equality and civil liberties. But we can not turn against each other like this, especially across races. Any clear-thinking person can see that is not going to end well.

It is right and good to take to the streets. I think it's overdue and I think a lot of people have a lot of legitimate grievances. The anger has to be focused properly, though. There's something degrading about how we're behaving as a society, as if the fact we're doing it at all is proof our country isn't worth saving. I feel a seething indignation towards our institutions and how we've been manipulated like this via division. Jesus Christ, it's bad enough we're turning on each other, but doing it for the amusement of a tiny cabal of politically corrupt elites is what I can't stand. There's an enemy for sure, but we are not it.
 
Wyote said:
Lmao
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Of course that response is not really a galaxy brained way to handle it, which is probably why the tweet wound up deleted. However I understand why it's frustrating to have people call you racist as a way to end the conversation.

I can't watch the actual video at work for obvious reasons but I'll watch it tonight.
 
Reason said:
Took me 60 seconds to Google this and find out it was sarcasm
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...weeted-is-not-what-the-media-are-saying-it-is

Edit: except I didn't actually use Google because Google de-ranks such articles in algorithm
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It's always sarcasm or just a joke isn't it? Who cares if the guy screaming white power was being sarcastic? The man screaming it hasn't come out to say he was being sarcastic anyway, has he? Doesn't change that the president still retweeted it like an idiot.
 
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Reason said:
Of course that response is not really a galaxy brained way to handle it, which is probably why the tweet wound up deleted. However I understand why it's frustrating to have people call you racist as a way to end the conversation.

I can't watch the actual video at work for obvious reasons but I'll watch it tonight.
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acd said:
It's always sarcasm or just a joke isn't it? Who cares if the guy screaming white power was being sarcastic? The man screaming it hasn't come out to say he was being sarcastic anyway, has he? Doesn't change that the president still retweeted it like an idiot.
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Just makes me laugh that news outlets were feigning outrage over a guy who was just making fun of another guy
 
Wyote said:
Just makes me laugh that news outlets were feigning outrage over a guy who was just making fun of another guy
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Really though.
How fucking dumb and/or obsessed with yourself do you have to be to accidentally retweet something like that during a time of racial tension? I don't think the media was wrong to call him out on it. He's completely inept.
 
acd said:
Really though.
How fucking dumb and/or obsessed with yourself do you have to be to accidentally retweet something like that during a time of racial tension? I don't think the media was wrong to call him out on it. He's completely inept.
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Lol definitely
 
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acd said:
Really though.
How fucking dumb and/or obsessed with yourself do you have to be to accidentally retweet something like that during a time of racial tension? I don't think the media was wrong to call him out on it. He's completely inept.
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I think the man loves "shock value" and always has, but being President really blew the ego through the roof. He's never hid his "I said what I said, get over it." mentality.
 
acd said:
It's always sarcasm or just a joke isn't it?
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This world is definitely a joke
acd said:
Who cares if the guy screaming white power was being sarcastic? The man screaming it hasn't come out to say he was being sarcastic anyway, has he?
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If he does it's not going to change your mind about any part of this
acd said:
Doesn't change that the president still retweeted it like an idiot.
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I can't say why the president tweeted this. He might be trying to entice the far left to attack this golf course so he can scare the rich pricks there into donating money. I have no idea, I need to let a day or two go by so more information can fall out of the news cycle
 
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