To shit with respect!

MrDoobie said:
I hate to go there, but what does this say about homosexuality?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, I'd have to think about that more. I hadn't thought about it that way. The way I see it now, when two people come together momentarily they become like God and only in that moment can we create life. I'll have to get back to you on that, honestly.
 
CindyLou said:
Actually the man wouldn't fuck lillith because she wanted to be on top. Or something like that.

No, Eve wasn't named until after 'the fall'. If Lilith fits in there, she could but 'woman' named Eve wasn't named until after the fall so we can't really determine who 'the woman' was, whoever she was she had no name other than 'the woman'. (this is all for fun, if you're going to read the story that way, as actual people. Lol)
Click to expand...

Or even that it was a woman. See, before it was translated, Adam was referred to as "Ha-Adam", which actually means, roughly, "the earthling". Ha-Adam doesn't refer to a person named Adam and as far as I understand it, the original translation was thus more gender ambiguous. It could be "Ha-Adam" was sexless and God didn't differentiate between sexes until he created the second human.
 
MrDoobie said:
Or even that it was a woman. See, before it was translated, Adam was referred to as "Ha-Adam", which actually means, roughly, "the earthling". Ha-Adam doesn't refer to a person named Adam and as far as I understand it, the original translation was thus more gender ambiguous. It could be "Ha-Adam" was sexless and God didn't differentiate between sexes until he created the second human.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that! Or, if I did I forgot. This thread turned fun! :D Its been a good four or five years since I've even thought about this stuff.
 
MrDoobie said:
Or even that it was a woman. See, before it was translated, Adam was referred to as "Ha-Adam", which actually means, roughly, "the earthling". Ha-Adam doesn't refer to a person named Adam and as far as I understand it, the original translation was thus more gender ambiguous. It could be "Ha-Adam" was sexless and God didn't differentiate between sexes until he created the second human.
Click to expand...

Which is even more interesting...both or none. Just like God. God is not a He any more than He is a She any more than Neither or Both.

God is existence.
 
I bet Billy is banging his head on his desk right now
 
No, I wouldn't go that far. ;) God has to be outside the universe too or it breaks down. If God exists God has to be outside the beginning but still BE the beginning. And the end. And outside the end. Lol.
 
In regards to pantheism - I subscribe to Gaudiya Vaishnavism, and in that belief system it says that Krishna (God/Allah/JHVH/Vishnu/etc.) has put a flame in the hearts of every living being. In that regard, you could say that God is in everything :) .. I think that's a very beautiful way to look at it ..

Oh and when you say that God can take any form thinkable, as the universe stems from Him, He should be able to have kids or preach in different religions as He so wishes. In the religion, it says that there are as many galaxies that you can imagine, and Krishna lies among them as in the picture that I have attached. That He can move quicker than any material, because he only lives in the spiritual world (think your imagination - you can "move" to places you've been merely by thinking of them).

mahavishnu.jpg
 
CindyLou said:
No, I wouldn't go that far. ;) God has to be outside the universe too or it breaks down. If God exists God has to be outside the beginning but still BE the beginning. And the end. And outside the end. Lol.
Click to expand...

Yes, God is the "I AM" - the only real existence from which all existence flows. The closer we come to Him, the more we experience real existence (termed, "life" or "Heaven") and the further we move from Him, the further we move from real existence (termed "death" or "Hell"). At least, that is my understanding.

He is the beginning and the end - the originator of all and the end goal of all...yes, so true!

Very good thoughts, CindyLou!
 
Poetic Justice said:
I bet Billy is banging his head on his desk right now
Click to expand...

LOL...Yes, he actually helped us think about God!

Seriously, though, I don't think he minds - I don't think he really cares if someone believes or does not but he just wants them to think through their beliefs and respect whatever decision someone decides upon for themselves (whether they choose to believe or not), that's all.
 
Patrick Williams said:
If my memory serves me correctly, I think that in Judaism the Holy Spirit is seen as the feminine aspect of God but I am going from memory here and may not remember this exactly right (in Eastern Orthodoxy, I think it is the same but please research this further to insure I am telling you correctly - I am going from memory here).

By virtue of God being infinite, He is both masculine and feminine and yet also transcends both too (we are forced to use finite language to describe infinite concepts so something will always be lost in the "translation" process).

IMO, everything in this world is an analogy to teach us about the greater, infinite immaterial world or to teach us aspects of God. Since Humans are both (male and female) created in the image of God, we are both (male & female) very small finite representations of the Infinite One.

P.S.: Judaism does not believe in the Trinity as Christians do but they do talk about God's Spirit. If there are any practicing Jewish INFJs out there, maybe you could enlighten us on this concept in Judaism?
Click to expand...
A lovely idea, but no.
 
I am pro-socialism!
I am for slavery!
Drugs should all be legal!
PS3 is superior to Xbox360!
We need less police!
Unions strangle profitability and work ethic!
Welfare should be ended!
Abortion should be illegal!
homosexuality is a choice!


Are all claims people make which are open to debate, argument and ridicule. We have no need for respecting these views if we disagree, and disagree many of us shall... why then does Religion get a pass?
Click to expand...

You are right. There is no need to respect a position that we deem unrespectable. However, there is every sense and benefit in/to respecting the person holding the position, which becomes expressed in how we communicate with them.

I don't believe religion should get a pass, but seeing as how it is one of the most dearest and nearest parts of some people, it would bode us well to act with sensitivity and consideration toward the subject.
 
Last edited:
acd said:
A lovely idea, but no.
Click to expand...

ACD, I don't think you did not even look it up! : - ) I was 99.99% sure I was remembering it right (My minor in my bachelor's degree is religion and I went to Seminary to work on my Masters Degree after I retired from the Air Force in 2005) but because I wasn't 100% sure (because of that .01% uncertainty : - ) I recommended you look it up...Anyway, here is an article written by a PhD Jewish Scholar (her PhD is in mythology and folklore, she was born in Tel Aviv) that I looked up to see if I remembered right, which I did. It is not just a lovely concept...it is the truth (at least from a Judaic and Eastern orthodox perspective). To research it, just Google, "Judaism and the feminine aspect of God" or something like that ("feminine aspect of God"):

Shekhina

by Ilil Arbel, Ph.D.
Judaism is a monotheistic religion, strongly connected to a patriarchal God - Yahweh. It may surprise many people to discover that a goddess was associated with Judaism from its conception, and continued to play an important part, in various forms, to the present. The goddess is best known as Shekhina, a Talmudic term describing the manifestation of God's presence on earth.
While the Bible does not mention the name Shekhina, she is nevertheless bound to extremely old traditions, and closely relates to the ancient goddesses. Particularly significant is the Canaanite goddess Ashera who, at the beginning of the Israelites' settlement in the land of Canaan, was often referred to as Yahweh's Consort. The literature also calls her the "Holy Spirit" which, in Hebrew, is also a feminine form. The feminine nature of the Shekhina is so easy to establish in Hebrew, because the gender of the subject plays an important role in the sentence structure. In English, you can say "The Glorious Shekhina returned to bless us" without mentioning gender. In Hebrew, both verbs and adjectives have a male or female forms, and many names suggest gender to anyone who understands the language. The simple sentence above indicates three times that the Shekhina is female, and the fact sinks easily into the consciousness of the reader.
From the first covenant, Yahweh presented an image of a harsh, daunting God. His character almost demanded the birth of an entity like Shekhina. Also, He could not be seen by human eyes, and only a few prophets heard His voice. Yet almost every religion shows that human nature seeks intimacy with a deity. The manifestation of a loving maternal entity, ready to defend her people even from God Himself, brings a feeling of comfort that a paternal, invisible entity like Yahweh cannot bestow upon His worshipers. Shekhina represented compassion in its purest form, and despite being, officially, the female side of God, she was visible and audible as a feminine entity in her own right. A beautiful being of light, whose most important function was to intercede with God on behalf of her children. Such an entity had to come into being to soften the harshness of the original Judaism.
But how did such a complex entity develop? It started with the changing of God's dwelling. During Biblical times, people assumed God dwelled in the clouds. When the Israelites built the desert Tabernacle, and later, Solomon's Temple, Yahweh descended in a cloud and dwelt there. The word Shekhina, in Hebrew, is derived from the Biblical verb shakhan, meaning "the act of dwelling" but taking the feminine form. Therefore, at the beginning of the Talmudic era, the word Shekhina meant the aspect of God that dwelt among people and could be apprehended by the senses. For example, one Talmudic verse said: "Let them make Me a sanctuary that I may dwell (ve'shakhanti) among them." However, in a later version, the translation said "Let them make Me a Sanctuary so that My Shekhina will dwell among them." In other words, a separate entity.
Slowly, the manifested entity became stronger. A complete distinction appears in a Talmudic quotation from the end of the 1st century BCE: "...while the Children of Israel were still in Egypt, the Holy One, blessed be He, stipulated that He would liberate them from Egypt only in order that they built him a Sanctuary so that He can let His Shekhina dwell among them... As soon as the Tabernacle was erected, the Shekhina descended and dwelt among them." Another quotation from early 3rd century says: "On that day a thing came about which had never existed since the creation of the world. From the creation of the world and up to that hour the Shekhina had never dwelt among the lower beings. But from the time that the Tabernacle was erected, she did dwell among them."
Another tradition claimed that she had always dwelt among her people, but their sins drove her, on and off, into Heaven. However, she was drawn back to her children and tried to save them, over and over. By that time, her image was so ingrained into real historical events, that when the Jews were exiled to Babylonia, she transferred her seat there, and appeared alternately in two major synagogues. She often made herself visible to the congregations there, particularly in one synagogue, which was built of stones and dust taken from a holy place in Jerusalem.
As the Jews dispersed further, sightings occurred in Italy, Spain, Germany, Poland, Russia - in every town where Jews lived. Shekhina comforted the sick, the poor, the suffering, and had a particular concern for repentant sinners "These are accepted by the Shekhina as if they were righteous and pious persons who never sinned. They are carried aloft and seated next to the Shekhina...he whose heart is broken and whose spirit is low, and whose mouth rarely utters a word, the Shekhina walks with him every day...".
The paradox of dwelling in one place, and being in various places and with many people at the same time, had to be resolved. The Talmud reconciled the two ideas beautifully in a well-known anecdote. "The Emperor said to Raban Gamaliel: �You say that wherever ten men are assembled, the Shekhina dwells among them. How many Shekhinas are there?' Thereupon Raban Gamaliel beckoned a servant and began to beat him, saying: �Why did you let the sun enter the Emperor's house?' �Have you gone mad?' said the Emperor, surprised at the violence of the usually gentle Raban Gamaliel, �the sun shines all over the world!' �If the sun,' answered Gamaliel �which is only one of a thousand myriad servants of God, shines all over the world, how much more so the Shekhina of God!"
As time went by, her position strengthened. An interesting Medieval anecdote shows the Shekhina as a total separate entity, in her most important role - interceding on behalf of her children. "The Shekhina comes to the defense of sinful Israel by saying first to Israel: �Be not a witness against thy neighbor without a cause' and then thereafter saying to God: �Say not: I will do to him as he hath done to me..' " This is obviously a conversation taking place among three distinct entities - Israel, God, and the Shekhina. Another significant passage from the 11th century, describes Rabbi Akiva (a second century sage) saying: "When the Holy One, blessed be He, considered the deeds of the generation of Enoch and that they were spoiled and evil, He removed Himself and His Shekhina from their midst and ascended into the heights with blasts of trumpets..."
Like any good mother, she could punish too. When she behaved violently, her character came closer to her powerful aspect of the great Asherah, Yahweh's Canaanite Consort. She descended to Earth to punish Adam, Eve, and the Serpent when they sinned at the Garden of Eden. She confused the builders of the Tower of Babel. She drowned the Egyptians at the Red Sea crossing during Exodus. When needed, she even killed righteous people. Since the beginning of time, six people -- Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Aaron, and Miriam -- could not be taken by the Angel of Death because of their perfect purity. Someone had to bring their souls to Heaven, and only Shekhina could do that. By kissing them, she released their souls from bondage to this world. In a particularly touching story, after kissing and releasing Moses' soul, she carried his body for a long distance on her wings, to his secret grave. This myth connects Shekhina to another ancient goddess, Anath. According to the legends, Moses had to live apart from his wife so that he would always be pure enough to communicate with the Shekhina. This gave rise to the curious myth, later elaborated on in the Kabbalah, that Moses and Shekhina lived as husband and wife. The image of Shekhina, carrying the dead body of her husband to his final resting place, resembles the myth of Anath, carrying the body of her husband Baal to his burial place.
Nor is this the end of her development. The Kabbalah greatly elaborated on the theme of the feminine aspect of God. She would appear as the powerful Matronit, the controversial Lilith, and finally, as the glorious figure of Shabbat Hamalka - Queen, Bride of God, celebrated every Saturday by Jews all over the world as they light the Sabbath candles. And by tradition, the candles must always be lit by a woman. Naturally -- Ashera, too, was served chiefly by priestesses. The cycle is very neatly completed.
 
Last edited:
oceanbreeze said:
You are right. There is no need to respect a position that we deem unrespectable. However, there is every sense and benefit in/to respecting the person holding the position, which becomes expressed in how we communicate with them.

I don't believe religion should get a pass, but seeing as how it is one of the most dearest and nearest parts of some people, it would bode us well to act with sensitivity and consideration toward the subject.
Click to expand...

Thats 1 opinion. I disagree.
 
MrDoobie said:
Or even that it was a woman. See, before it was translated, Adam was referred to as "Ha-Adam", which actually means, roughly, "the earthling". Ha-Adam doesn't refer to a person named Adam and as far as I understand it, the original translation was thus more gender ambiguous. It could be "Ha-Adam" was sexless and God didn't differentiate between sexes until he created the second human.
Click to expand...

If there's only one of something then it's kind of hard to talk about how it's different from the others.
I'm just saying.
 
"Men are respectable only as they respect"
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

“Respect yourself and others will respect you.”
- Confucius

“If you want to be respected by others, the great thing is to respect yourself. Only by that, only by self-respect will you compel others to respect you.”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“A little less hypocrisy and a little more tolerance towards oneself can only have good results in respect for our neighbor; for we are all too prone to transfer to our fellows the injustice and violence we inflict upon our own natures.”
- Carl Gustav Jung

“Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.”
- Benjamin Franklin

"Never take a person's dignity: it is worth everything to them, and nothing to you."
- Frank Barron

"A flippant, frivolous man may ridicule others, may controvert them, scorn them; but he who has any respect for himself seems to have renounced the right of thinking meanly of others."
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"He that respects himself is safe from others; he wears a coat of mail that none can pierce."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

“Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

"Every man is to be respected as an absolute end in himself; and it is a crime against the dignity that belongs to him as a human being, to use him as a mere means for some external purpose."
- Immanuel Kant
 
Matt3737 said:
"Men are respectable only as they respect"
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

“Respect yourself and others will respect you.”
- Confucius

“If you want to be respected by others, the great thing is to respect yourself. Only by that, only by self-respect will you compel others to respect you.”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“A little less hypocrisy and a little more tolerance towards oneself can only have good results in respect for our neighbor; for we are all too prone to transfer to our fellows the injustice and violence we inflict upon our own natures.”
- Carl Gustav Jung

“Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.”
- Benjamin Franklin

"Never take a person's dignity: it is worth everything to them, and nothing to you."
- Frank Barron

"A flippant, frivolous man may ridicule others, may controvert them, scorn them; but he who has any respect for himself seems to have renounced the right of thinking meanly of others."
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"He that respects himself is safe from others; he wears a coat of mail that none can pierce."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

“Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

"Every man is to be respected as an absolute end in himself; and it is a crime against the dignity that belongs to him as a human being, to use him as a mere means for some external purpose."
- Immanuel Kant
Click to expand...

Not really a fan of any of those guys.
 
Matt3737 said:
"Men are respectable only as they respect"
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

“Respect yourself and others will respect you.”
- Confucius

“If you want to be respected by others, the great thing is to respect yourself. Only by that, only by self-respect will you compel others to respect you.”
- Fyodor Dostoyevsky

“A little less hypocrisy and a little more tolerance towards oneself can only have good results in respect for our neighbor; for we are all too prone to transfer to our fellows the injustice and violence we inflict upon our own natures.”
- Carl Gustav Jung

“Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.”
- Benjamin Franklin

"Never take a person's dignity: it is worth everything to them, and nothing to you."
- Frank Barron

"A flippant, frivolous man may ridicule others, may controvert them, scorn them; but he who has any respect for himself seems to have renounced the right of thinking meanly of others."
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"He that respects himself is safe from others; he wears a coat of mail that none can pierce."
- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

“Above all, don't lie to yourself. The man who lies to himself and listens to his own lie comes to a point that he cannot distinguish the truth within him, or around him, and so loses all respect for himself and for others. And having no respect he ceases to love.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky

"Every man is to be respected as an absolute end in himself; and it is a crime against the dignity that belongs to him as a human being, to use him as a mere means for some external purpose."
- Immanuel Kant
Click to expand...

Very good quotes, thanks for sharing them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top