Too Fat to Graduate

I like the way my university has core classes set up. You have to fufill certain core sections. Two Sciences (each are slightly different areas), Math/Logic, Humanities, Art, Social Science, Diversity, Freshmen Seminar, and Writing. You have a HUGE list of courses to choose from, and I can garuntee everyone can find something they would enjoy. Also, Your major usually clears at lest three of these.

I largely disagree with people having to take a diversity, and art core class though, and I wish those two to be removed (although I enjoyed taking my courses for them). When I looked for schools, I instantly ruled out a school that required some kind of physical fitness. That is totally unrelated to education, and therefore it angers me that it is required.

The whole "legislation" of saying "be healthy or your will be punished" infuriates me beyond most other issues the world over. How dare a government, or anyone one else, say how I treat my own health, if it is not effecting any one else around me (yes I know there are "financial" implications, but I see that line of reasoning as an excuse). It's a method of control that I do NOT like at all. What I do with my body is my choice.
 
IndigoSensor said:
I like the way my university has core classes set up. You have to fufill certain core sections. Two Sciences (each are slightly different areas), Math/Logic, Humanities, Art, Social Science, Diversity, Freshmen Seminar, and Writing. You have a HUGE list of courses to choose from, and I can garuntee everyone can find something they would enjoy. Also, Your major usually clears at lest three of these.

I largely disagree with people having to take a diversity, and art core class though, and I wish those two to be removed (although I enjoyed taking my courses for them). When I looked for schools, I instantly ruled out a school that required some kind of physical fitness. That is totally unrelated to education, and therefore it angers me that it is required.
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Perhaps then they should simply have not chosen this school.
 
Shai Gar said:
I disagree with the statement it's about shaming them into it.

When this class signed on this rule was in place. It has to do with graduation requirements and obviously this girl amongst others did not pay attention.
Now that lack of attention to a graduation requirement is biting her in the arse.

She fully acknowledges that she wasn't paying attention until the last year.

Well? What if it was an academic or another similar extra-curricular activity such as a set number of hours for social good works required to keep up the colleges reputation?
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She has just as much a right to fight the rule as the school has to keep it. I see it as less "rules are rules" than it can be/should be the right of an individual to take care of themselves.

Many schools give students options on courses they can take, and core courses usually run parallel to state mandates for a college education. Private schools do not follow that mandate and yes, they can choose the curriculum for themselves. Does that make what they select for the student morally right? No. But I think additional options should be considered, or this school may end up losing that public funding they depend on.

School cores are fluid; they can and do change yearly. If she started in a different catalog year, she might not have to take that requirement. There are things schools can do and not seem overly obtrusive to their student population. Unless they're willing to make this requirement equal for the entire student population and unless they're willing to make a conscious statement to be a healthy campus without discrimination (because this is discriminatory: they've singled out one population for a negative image) then they've done little but shame a certain population into conforming to their idea of perfection.
 
There are things schools can do and not seem overly obtrusive to their student population. Unless they're willing to make this requirement equal for the entire student population and unless they're willing to make a conscious statement to be a healthy campus without discrimination (because this is discriminatory: they've singled out one population for a negative image) then they've done little but shame a certain population into conforming to their idea of perfection.
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Absolutely. Now I want to give everyone one of Helpful Elf's cookies.

Seriously though, you're both right in my opinion. The school is discriminating and needs to be held accountable for this - but one also assumes that students knew this as they were signing up.

Gym classes? They're all crazy.
 
Shai Gar said:
Perhaps then they should simply have not chosen this school.
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She may have decided to be in the school before the core changes took effect. If so, she may still have options...but she might have chosen an HBCU (Historically Black Colleges and Universities) due to a scholarship or other funding. It's hard to say what the situation might be - there really isn't enough information in the article.

My guess is, however, the college will change its policy and/or offer an alternative to that core class.
 
BMI isn't a perfect tool for health, it is way too simple. Each case must be worked individually. Very different bodies and minds with very different physiology. You still can't be sure, if you enforce healthy body, that you don't intervene with someone's brain ability - and not necessarily always in a positive way.

It is good to care about health, but this is far from the right approach. There are a lot more studies to be made before we know what we are doing here. Right now it's almost as irresponsible as blood-letting in dark ages.


I'm not going to discuss again also that it is much better to work with the initial causes of it, than with the consequences.
 
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I'm gonna agree with Shai and the points he makes on this one, The college I attend has a restriction on M rated games and R rated moveis and on top of that a curfew. But i knew the rules before I even put in my application and I accepted them.

We make college athletes keep good grades why not keep college students in good shape. Of course the students have the right to fight the rule and if there persistent they might overturn it.
 
arbygil said:
She has just as much a right to fight the rule as the school has to keep it. I see it as less "rules are rules" than it can be/should be the right of an individual to take care of themselves.

Many schools give students options on courses they can take, and core courses usually run parallel to state mandates for a college education. Private schools do not follow that mandate and yes, they can choose the curriculum for themselves. Does that make what they select for the student morally right? No. But I think additional options should be considered, or this school may end up losing that public funding they depend on.

School cores are fluid; they can and do change yearly. If she started in a different catalog year, she might not have to take that requirement. There are things schools can do and not seem overly obtrusive to their student population. Unless they're willing to make this requirement equal for the entire student population and unless they're willing to make a conscious statement to be a healthy campus without discrimination (because this is discriminatory: they've singled out one population for a negative image) then they've done little but shame a certain population into conforming to their idea of perfection.
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Didn't want to do it? Shouldn't have signed.

I suppose this is what makes me more Lawful than Chaotic. I believe in the ultimate sanctity of Contract Law.
 
Shai Gar said:
Didn't want to do it? Shouldn't have signed.

I suppose this is what makes me more Lawful than Chaotic. I believe in the ultimate sanctity of Contract Law.
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Anarcho-capitalists worship contract law, but are still 100% anarchic.
 
Summa cum laude:
TheBlogFromTheCore20050127b.jpg


If putting it all down to BMI, why not limit it from below too, by the way?
Has anybody heard of obesity turning into anorexia?
I'd say some people may have problems with their bodies, but other people, who create such rules, may have problems with their heads.
But that's probably not the case, they just follow directions. From other people, who need lots of hugs.
 
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Actually, according to the Lincoln University online newspaper, this BMI nonsense just *recently* came into effect. As of this year. So she could have been attending the university without knowledge of this BMI rule. In my mind, that gives her the absolute right to protest it because this should not be retroactive - it should apply to the newest freshmen level classes only (in Fall term). Article was written 11/18/2009.

Emphasis mine:

Lincoln University students will now have to endure a physical exam determining each student's BMI (body mass index) before they are permitted to graduate. An individual's BMI measures the amount of body fat.

Amid fierce criticisms, Lincoln University has recently installed a new requirement for its undergraduate students. If your BMI is over 30, you are required to take a physical education class.

This new requirement has caused an uproar from some students and professors who argue that the university is actively discriminating against those who are obese. Some students argue that their time at Lincoln may be prolonged because of an additional class.

University officials say that they are actively working to increase the health of their students, but many have their doubts.

"What's the point of this? What does my BMI have to do with my academic overcome?" asked Dionard Henderson, a freshman. "Some students on campus are just confused why a certain BMI has to be a requirement. Are there not a sufficient amount of prerequisites to complete prior to graduating from college?

Dr. James L. DeBoy, who is Chair and Professor of the Department of Health, Physical Education and Recreation could not be reached for comment, but there appears to be division even among the department's faculty on this new requirement.

"I don't necessarily agree with the BMI being a requirement," said Dr. Yvonne Hilton, a professor in the Health, Physical Education and Recreation department. "It is understood that obesity in America is growing fast, but maybe there should have been a different approach in informing the students about their health and building their awareness."

Sophomore Lousie Kaddie agrees.

"It's not up to Lincoln to tell me how much my BMI should be. I came here to get a degree and that's what the administration should be concerned with," she added.
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Link to article: http://media.www.thelincolnianonlin...-Requirement.Causes.Uproar-3834360.shtml#more
 
What would they do if someone were obese from a definitive organic disease such as Cushing's Syndrome or hypothyroidism? What if someone were in a wheel chair and obese as a natural consequence of inactivity? Endocrinology and metabolism is an extremely complex field and the scientific understanding of obesity is far from complete. How one looks and what one weighs are a personal matter between doctor and patient and nobody else's business.
 
Norton said:
What would they do if someone were obese from a definitive organic disease such as Cushing's Syndrome or hypothyroidism? What if someone were in a wheel chair and obese as a natural consequence of inactivity? Endocrinology and metabolism is an extremely complex field and the scientific understanding of obesity is far from complete. How one looks and what one weighs are a personal matter between doctor and patient and nobody else's business.
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I'm sure it's obvious that they'er not going to make the guy in the wheelchair roll on the tredmill
 
Dropout fail:
istockphoto_625523_bodybuilder_back.jpg

BMI = 32.
 
To quote CNN, emphasis mine...

(CNN) -- Most college students expect to receive their diplomas on the basis of grades, but at a Pennsylvania school, physical fitness matters too.
Students at Lincoln University with a body mass index of 30 or above, reflective of obesity, must take a fitness course that meets three hours per week. Those who are assigned to the class but do not complete it cannot graduate.
Now that the first class to have this requirement imposed is nearing graduation day -- students who entered in the fall of 2006 -- the school faces criticism from both students and outsiders about the fitness class policy.
One of those students is Tiana Lawson, 21, whose recent editorial in the student paper has drawn national attention to the issue. Lawson wrote in The Lincolnian that she would be more understanding if the requirement applied to everyone. She thinks all students, not just those with a high BMI, should have to take the class.
Read Lawson's editorial in The Lincolnian
"I didn't come to Lincoln to be told that my weight is not in an acceptable range," Lawson wrote. "I came here to get an education which, as a three-time honor student, is something I have been doing quite well, despite the fact that I have a slightly high Body Mass Index."
Lawson, who told CNN she had been putting off getting her BMI tested until this year, recently found out she would have to take the class. At first angry, Lawson said she is now more "confused" about the requirement.
"I don't know why they would want some people to be more healthy than others," she said.
But James DeBoy, chairman of the school's Department of Health and Physical Education, says the requirement is just like courses to help students' communications or math proficiency. The faculty also has a priority to be honest with students, he said.
"We, as educators, must tell students when we believe, in our heart of hearts, when certain factors, certain behaviors, attitudes, whatever, are going to hinder that student from achieving and maximizing their life goals," he said.
Moreover, if there were unlimited resources, the fitness opportunities would be for all students, but that is not the reality, he said.
The historically black college receives public funding, but is under independent control.
Obesity increases a person's risk of heart disease, type 2 diabetes, stroke, some cancers and other ailments. African-Americans were 1.4 times as likely to be obese as non-Hispanic whites in 2007, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. About four out of five African-American women are overweight or obese, the agency said.
"Obesity is going to rob you of your quality and quantity of life," DeBoy said. "We believe that this is unconscionable."
The fitness course, called "Fitness for Life," consists of activities including water aerobics, Tai Bo and aerobic dance, he said.
Because BMI is not a perfect measure of obesity, students also have their waist circumference measured, he said. There are some people who have a high BMI because of their muscle mass, but are not actually obese, and the waist measurement is meant to weed out those people.
From a legal perspective, the school's requirement seems "paternalistic" and "intrusive," said David Kairys, professor of law at Temple University Law School in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
"The part that seems excessive is forcing them to take this course, or to exercise three hours a week, which isn't a bad idea for them, but should be their choice," he said.
Lincoln is "breaking new ground" with this requirement, as Kairys has not heard of one like it at other schools.
Some students, such as Brittnai Panton, a 19-year-old freshman from Decatur, Georgia, like the requirement. She tested out of having to take the class, but supports having it around.
"Being in this day and age where people are becoming overweight and need more fitness, I think it's a great idea to earn extra credit, an easy extra credit," she said.
Many of her classmates don't find it offensive, she said.
"It is like you're getting a second chance to actually do fitness in school, which certain people wouldn't do," she said. "Many of them find it an easy credit."
DeBoy said 620 students have either tested out or taken the course, with 80 remaining to get their BMI evaluated. He estimates 12 to 15 will need to take the fitness class in January.
When the faculty first approved the fitness course requirement in 2006, there were minimal concerns raised, he said. The intention is to spread the message that people in school, including high school and middle school, need more physical activity.
"This is one university's -- granted it's radical and it's upsetting -- approach to try to begin to directly address" obesity, he said.
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The final emphasis was put in for ENFP Can Be Shy, and others who obviously didn't read the linked article.
 
A lo-o-o-ot of measurement is going on there, I see. They should check their teeth too, as in every decent slave market.

Should be considered lucky that they don't measure their reproductive organs. After all, we need a better race here!
 
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