Sloe Djinn
Idiot with Internet Access.
- MBTI
- ISFP
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- 6w7
While I don’t agree at this point I will continue to think about what you’ve said and I appreciate your taking the time and effort to respond earnestly and articulately.Honestly I have zero kind of personal investment in the personality of Obama. I fully recognise that the problems are entrenched and resistant to change. To cause changes in society takes persistence and dedication to change, courage and fight. Did you hear, in Australia, this was the 40th anniversary year of the gay and lesbian Sydney rights march. The first time it was marched, the protesters were arrested and held in prison... 40 years later marriage has been legalised in Australia... that's how long it took and how much persistence and lobbying to cause change... it didn't happen overnight. So what... marchers should have just quit because the problem is entrenched and resistant to change? Just blame the system and the entrenchment of the problem for the unwillingness to care about dedication to causing change?
I also fully understand that voters would say things to themselves like "I don't actually want people tortured, I just don't want to vote for Hilary". But that's what I meant about how social disasters get caused. Actually, it's not of any consequence that they say to themselves that they don't want people to get tortured, because they're casting their vote in support of torture.
I don't think that voters are unintelligent and incapable of understanding the importance of what they are voting for, or hopelessly susceptible to propaganda and media interference. Or, even if many of them do have this problem, many others of them are perfectly intelligent and capable of understanding. There are so many people who should know better and who are capable of knowing better and capable of understanding the importance of concepts of human rights, who understand what torture is and what it means, who still voted for Trump. They supported torture with their vote. It's not OK.
I don't really care about whether or not the official record states that torture regulations have been loosened. This is US military. The official position stated is that torture is permissible. There's no need to loosen regulations. It's permitted. People can be deprived of their clothing in freezing conditions in detention, without any question of whether it is right or wrong or even whether it is torture or not torture, because torture is stated as permitted by the administration. It's just "inappropriate treatment". Regrettable. No investigation necessary.
I realise how the popular vote works vs the electoral college. America is not a true democracy. But votes are not meaningless, voters are still voting for electoral college. That's why it's important to hold voters accountable and push harder to make every vote count for the electoral college.
I understand as you say that you have given up hope, I differ. I expect people to be responsible and accountable about their voting and stop making lame bullshit excuses about why they voted for torture, and stop pretending like votes for torture aren't causative of torture.
Fwiw I haven’t given up hope for change. I just don’t agree about the avenue to take, though I can only speculate as to a better direction.
Good debates are still draining to me, and I’ll have to set this down at present.