Type bias

[Saru Inc]

So I was out driving through the countryside earlier, thinking about this... I thought for a while, about my extreme dislike for XSTJ. I think I may have stumbled upon it.


XSTJ, and XSFJ to a certain extent, want a definite absolute answer for everything. As Kav told me earlier, if you want to say A is true, you must show why.


I do agree with this, you must provide proof for an argument, or else don't propose an argument.

But I can't do that. I simply can't put words to what I think, its a cloud in my mind that I can successfully grasp with my cerebral hands, but my mouth is too small to be able to process it into words.

So its not that I hate XSTJ, or XSFJ, I hate myself for not being able to communicate. I hate it because I am trapped between ability, and demand.

I demand an answer as well, I demand steps (usually), but I am not able to give what I demand, and so I keep on demanding what I know I cannot give, and my ability falls into nothing. But its there.

If someone says prove A is real, I say thats easy. And I go on and prove it. Then I realize I never actually spoke any words. I know why A will cause B to happen, and this might sound stupid to people, but I cannot put to words why, but I can through analogies and metaphors. The issue that I now run into, is the XSTJ and XSFJ that I know do not want the metaphors, they want the concrete, and I was never much of a brickmason myself.

And I keep on trying to thus transform the metaphors, the images into words you can touch and taste, and I am unable to. And I start to become extremely distraught, and I've wasted all my fuel on translation, that I run out, and this little train just can't make it over the hill anymore, and I shut down.

Meanwhile, the XSTJ and XSFJ still don't have their answers, and I've shut down. So it remains unresolved, which drives me into even more unrest, I cannot bear it anymore.


edit: forgot to add this:

So, now that you look at it on the outside perspective, the XSFJ and XSTJ has won the argument, I've not told them anything. YOu just see my freeze up for 20 seconds, then storm off. So the XSTJ and XSFJ will just sneer saying "I KNEW I WAS RIGHT" WRONG. YOU WERE WRONG. But I can't prove it verbally, so I just self implode.

Kinda referring to my dad (isfj) right now though, so perhaps my experience has been a bit biased.


So I think that is the core of my distaste for the XSTJ and XSFJ I've met.

 

[IndigoSensor]

Indy when you have a controversial opinion you expect at least some people to not agree with you. I'm well aware that my opnion runs against the grain. I'm fine with that, but it doesn't make my asseration wrong either. But I'm not worried about if people agree more that they really understand what I'm saying. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I just have guts to say what some of us are thinking. How many I'm not sure. At least a few but anymore and I would be guessing.

To you, it might not be wrong. To others, it is. The majority opinion generally hold a lot more weight them the majority. At times, the majority is right.

I really don't need everyone's approval. If people don't like what I'm saying I'm cool with that. I just don't want people distorting my point.

We're not distoring your point, we don't agree with it. You might not need everyones approval, but you sure are getting a lot of dissapproval in the process. For me at least, I am very tired of hearing the same thing again and again and again, only to have you shown, nearly no one agrees. It seems you'll never change your ways no matter how much evidence is thrown in front of you, and I find that to be extrodinarly frusterating. This is why you meet resistance, because you will NOT listen to anyone. you might think you do, but actions speak so much louder then words. your actions in this, further suggest that.

 

[the]

O

Sensing/Intuition
Probably the worst out here. You know the drill, intuitives are extremely intelligent people who can understand everything especially if it's abstract, talk with deep metaphors, are complex, while sensors are stupid cheerleaders who can't understand anything not related to sports or popstars. Sorry to pop your bubble bimbos, it's exactly that. =(
It's true that intuitives tend to be more interested in the abstract, and sensors in the concrete. It doesn't mean intuitives can't fix a television and that sensors can't do physics.

What about metaphors about sports? Did I just blow your mind????

 

[This]

[MENTION=3255]Sali[/MENTION] what do you mean?

Did you or did you not just call all sensors idiots? and label all intuitves as having some kind of 6th sense?

 

[Saru Inc]

Did you or did you not just call all sensors idiots? and label all intuitves as having some kind of 6th sense?

Umm, I don't mean to butt in... But I don't think Royal did. Or at least, was intending to.

 

[Blind Bandit]

To you, it might not be wrong. To others, it is. The majority opinion generally hold a lot more weight them the majority. At times, the majority is right.

That's your take. I prefer what is right not what most think is right. If the majority is right I go with it if not , then I don't.

[We're not distoring your point, we don't agree with it. You might not need everyones approval, but you sure are getting a lot of dissapproval in the process. For me at least, I am very tired of hearing the same thing again and again and again, only to have you shown, nearly no one agrees. It seems you'll never change your ways no matter how much evidence is thrown in front of you, and I find that to be extrodinarly frusterating. This is why you meet resistance, because you will NOT listen to anyone. you might think you do, but actions speak so much louder then words. your actions in this, further suggest that.

Indy you don't like me that is clear. If I bother you so much don't read what I write. I have the right just as you do to state my opinion. I wasn't be rude when I did so and to my understanding I was not breaking rules.

I'm not going to get into a person argument with you because you don't like what I say.

 

[This]

Sorry to pop your bubble bimbos, it's exactly that. =(
It's true that intuitives tend to be more interested in the abstract, and sensors in the concrete.

What is that supposed to mean? It's entirely possible I've misinterpreted it.

 

[Majesty]

What about metaphors about sports? Did I just blow your mind????

Did you or did you not just call all sensors idiots? and label all intuitves as having some kind of 6th sense?

You know the drill, intuitives are extremely intelligent people who can understand everything especially if it's abstract, talk with deep metaphors, are complex, while sensors are stupid cheerleaders who can't understand anything not related to sports or popstars. Sorry to pop your bubble bimbos, it's not exactly that. =(

It means, err, that sensors r st00pid and intuitives r da bomb is not true.
i changed it, hope its clearer

Intuitives are generally more INTERESTED in the abstract. It doesn't mean they're more competent.

Edit 2: LOL I forgot a "not". Oops =D

Indy you don't like me that is clear. If I bother you so much don't read what I write. I have the right just as you do to state my opinion. I wasn't be rude when I did so and to my understanding I was not breaking rules.

I'm not going to get into a person argument with you because you don't like what I say.

Yes, and we have the right to disagree with yours.

 

[AUM]

What is that supposed to mean? It's entirely possible I've misinterpreted it.

I apologize for my intrusion, but how exactly is making intuitives interested in the abstract and sensors interested in the concrete make one smarter than the other?

Please explain.

 

[This]

I apologize for my intrusion, but how exactly is making intuitives interested in the abstract and sensors interested in the concrete make one smarter than the other?

Please explain.

The insinuation is that sensors can't understand the abstract, I'm not really sure that's true. However I'm not sure of much anymore since lately I've been questioning the entire pseudoscience of the MBTI. It seems to bother me a bit when people say "Well you're this" or "you do this" "so you should be this rather than that" It's like "who the fuck made you the all knowing king of the MBTI?"

 

[Majesty]

I apologize for my intrusion, but how exactly is making intuitives interested in the abstract and sensors interested in the concrete make one smarter than the other?

Please explain.

It was a typo.
my bad xD

 

[Saru Inc]

The insinuation is that sensors can't understand the abstract, I'm not really sure that's true. However I'm not sure of much anymore since lately I've been questioning the entire pseudoscience of the MBTI. It seems to bother me a bit when people say "Well you're this" or "you do this" "so you should be this rather than that" It's like "who the fuck made you the all knowing king of the MBTI?"

That is not at all what it means, although this entire argument is humorous to me, when you realize what you're *arguing about.* hehe

 

[This]

It was a typo.
my bad xD

Lol, well that makes a lot more sense [MENTION=3072]Royal[/MENTION] >_<

 

[IndigoSensor]

That's your take. I prefer what is right not what most think is right. If the majority is right I go with it if not , then I don't.

What you say and think is not the absolute truth, so this does not make you right, and you can not say so because of it.

I wasn't be rude when I did so.

Well, I, and several others judging by their responses, definitely saw you as being rude, and we responded as such.

 

[not sure]

The insinuation is that sensors can't understand the abstract, I'm not really sure that's true. However I'm not sure of much anymore since lately I've been questioning the entire pseudoscience of the MBTI. It seems to bother me a bit when people say "Well you're this" or "you do this" "so you should be this rather than that" It's like "who the fuck made you the all knowing king of the MBTI?"

It's about preferences not inabilities. Which cognitive process is more comfortable. With each type there will be a trend towards certain behaviour but there will be some whose behaviour does not match the mold. It is the way that they think that separates the types. Behaviour is a guide only.

I personally find the stereotype that NTs are intelligent and SPs and SJs are not highly objectionable because it just isn't true. That being said [MENTION=3072]Royal[/MENTION] was simply misunderstood. Something about the sentence structure was misleading.

 

[AUM]

The insinuation is that sensors can't understand the abstract

Yes, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding on this piece of information that some people pull out of their sleeves.

It's not that sensors can't understand the abstract, it's more that sensors are not interested in the abstract unless it has a practical purpose to their concrete world.

It's not a matter of understanding, it's a matter of interest.

 

[the]

Yes, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding on this piece of information that some people pull out of their sleeves.

It's not that sensors can't understand the abstract, it's more that sensors are not interested in the abstract unless it has a practical purpose to their concrete world.

It's not a matter of understanding, it's a matter of interest.

That is a good way of putting it. I just learned something about myself. Thank you.

 

[Morgain]

I don't think its really practical for me to start a new topic every time I need to vent especially if a thread is already open that is appropriate for the topic I need to vent about.

you need to be more selective of which treads you vent in. If it is a tread about getting to know a certain type and you come in with your hole package of negativity about some person of that type but instead off saying that you are talking about 1 person you gerenalize it to the whole group off people, that is simple wrong. Your judgement can never apply to the whole group off people

Also while generalization are shaky ground there is some truth to generalizations even if they aren't positive. But again they are shaky logic

there is truth in generalizations????????
So there is truth in the idea that Afrikans are nothing more than beast and can be enslaved, Jews are dirty and dishonest and can be gassed, all Arabics are terrorists so we can kill them all, women can not orientate, man have no feelings, ...

you know I hope what can come from generalizations?!!

I think looking at the rest of your post your misunderstanding what I'm saying. There is a diffence between venting and truly thinking that about a type. And as you mentioned a type can always break a mold. I have an ESTJ friend who is a blast to hang with and is the opposite of my mother who is a bad example of ESTJ.

I can not hear the difference between venting and truly thinking in writing. At least put a tag that you are venting and not thinking that about a type.

You can't say you dislike a type because
1. you are not trained in MBTI typing and you can't type people based only on the way you perceive them because how you perceive them is subjective and you don't know who they are on the inside. At least let someone take a test before you start judging a type based on 1 persons behaviour.

2. a type is a group of people and you don't know all the people. If I said that all Americans are stupid and lazy because this one person I work with is annoying me, how would you react?

No, I think its important to let these feelings out in a safe place (here or with someone you trust) so you don't act subconsciously on these bottled up feelings and continue the cycle of hate. By not acknowledging the problems and dealing with the underlying feelings, problems grow. Pretending everything is fine is not dealing with the problem

but that is the problem. You don't acknowledge the problem. Instead off using this place to learn about other types so you can better understand and get allong with them, you are just negative about them over and over and over gain. You are the one who continues the cycle of hate don't you see it?

But Morgain is just a overemotional INFP that is going to hard on her morals. God I hate INFP's and their stupid morals!
It is a sad thought that my behaviour can lead to prejudice towards other people just because we wear the same label.

I personally find the stereotype that NTs are intelligent and SPs and SJs are not highly objectionable because it just isn't true. That being said @Royal was simply misunderstood. Something about the sentence structure was misleading.

indeed and that is exactly the point of Royals tread

 

[magister343]

This one will be way shorter and simpler...
Ne: Oh my god an apple like the one Eve ate I wonder if apples never existed what would be on the Bible maybe Eve would've eaten a chocolate cake or maybe there would be no bible and people would have no religion and there would be more wars and blah blah blah blah
Se: Shut up Ne, it's just an apple.

I don't think Apples are actually ever mentioned anywhere in the bible. I know that they are not mentioned in the first few chapters of Genesis.

Apples are not the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They only came to be associated with such due to medieval artwork portraying them such because it was a visual pun; in Latin, apple and evil (when declined as as a neuter singular nominative or accusative adjective or an abstract noun) are both spelled "malum" (although the first vowel is longer in apple than evil.)

This artistic tradition of course only caught on in the west, as no such pun existed in Greek. The eastern church continued an older tradition (followed by some Jews as well) of depicting the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil as a Fig. This is based on the biblical mention of their first clothing being fig leaves and notion that they were still right by the tree when their shame kicked in and they chose to cover themselves with the closest thing available.



(Also, it seems quite odd to call Adam's wife as Eve when her name is properly transliterated as Chawa.)

 

[Arsal]

as i told you earlier, i don't hate sensors, i just dislike communicating with them. Well, Si sensors at least. I enjoy xstp

Yes, that's because Si is your inferior function, hence ENxP.

Good post, Royal.