wonkavision
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Ultimate Difference Between INFP and INFJ
- Thread starter wonkavision
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Lol. .come on..are you serious?
If you knew me "in real life" that would be the last thing you would say.
So I was thinking about it for a long time obviously, but I havent really taken the opportunity to go through many of your posts. I guess the reason is that you remind me of how 88Chaz88 used to be before he just trolled (but now hes a ESTP last I checked but whatever). Anyways that is what I get from you. Its hard to really describe what he was like because it was so long ago, its just a feeling I get. Yes that is right, I am basing you being an ISTP on feelings. or maybe I am using Si and how you make me feel; and you make me feel similar to how 88Chaz88 made me feel way back in the day. Who knows, whatever.
wonkavision
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Yeah, that's true, I ignored certain posts, particularly long walls of text.
It's simply not what I asked for.
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CindyLou
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I think you're INFJ -- I paused before posting because it's not exactly what you asked and because of that you might ignore it
but that's why I think you're INFJ over INFP
wonkavision
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I think being busy explains more why he couldn't contend with long walls of text. He was trying to find a simple litmus test. Vicky Jo provides a very simple one but I don't think it's necessarily accurate so I'm not going to repeat it. She says that if when you're thinking of the future you make a series of chopping motions at the future you're a J, and if you move your hands in more of a liquid motion you're a P.
I personally think long walls of text are more interesting.
I also personally would like to hear more about the functions. I'm not 100% sure of the functions as being necessarily valid. How much do we really know about the brain? Dario Nardi's book outlines which areas of the brain light up for which types at which times and how often.
But it only works for right-handed folks. Left-handers brains are built willy nilly he says. I'm a left hander. I suppose that going off to UCLA cognition lab would be the ultimate sort of Oz for finding your way home to your type providing that you're a right hander and providing Dario's ready to receive you. He does do workshops around the country where he hooks you up.
INFJs are pretty good with Venn Diagrams. They can see them in their mind very easily. INFPs can't do that.
INFPs can listen very closely to other people for hours on end and get all the details right. INFJs have less patience for this according to Nardi. Only the INFPs can stay in the listening part of their brains for hours on end. I guess that would be why they could be fairly good shrinks and counselors.
I personally think long walls of text are more interesting.
I also personally would like to hear more about the functions. I'm not 100% sure of the functions as being necessarily valid. How much do we really know about the brain? Dario Nardi's book outlines which areas of the brain light up for which types at which times and how often.
But it only works for right-handed folks. Left-handers brains are built willy nilly he says. I'm a left hander. I suppose that going off to UCLA cognition lab would be the ultimate sort of Oz for finding your way home to your type providing that you're a right hander and providing Dario's ready to receive you. He does do workshops around the country where he hooks you up.
INFJs are pretty good with Venn Diagrams. They can see them in their mind very easily. INFPs can't do that.
INFPs can listen very closely to other people for hours on end and get all the details right. INFJs have less patience for this according to Nardi. Only the INFPs can stay in the listening part of their brains for hours on end. I guess that would be why they could be fairly good shrinks and counselors.
wonkavision
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Yes. Exactly.
I didn't ask for lengthy posts.
I don't have time to read and respond to lengthy posts, nor do I NEED all that information.
As I stated in the OP, I've researched this stuff for years, and I've narrowed it down to INFP or INFJ.
I wasn't asking for a re-hashing of everything I already know, or about the other possible types I might be, or whether or not typology is reliable, etc.
I was looking for one thing and one thing only:
Right, I grok that. We have to see his context. A. He's no dummy, and B. He's well-read in the area. So where is the exact border between INFJ and INFP?
Instead we get anecdotals. We did get one guy from Portugal who said if you want to bang the whole block you're a P (no INFP would want to do that, though, as it would lose meaning) and if you just want to develop one relationship you're a J. This is just obviously wrong.
Wonkavision is a Christian so of course he's not going to bang the whole block. Christians have the one person thing. Does that make all Christians into Js?
It does not.
It may be that Js choose and then stick with their partner more faithfully. But I doubt it. That might be a question of whether you're a sexual communist or a noodist or from some crazy group like the Manson group rather than a strict Baptist.
Nardi gives you a few more details between them. If you compare the brain charts of each, the INFP is able to listen. The INFJ is able to envision. But again, how objective is this? It may seem that you are able to listen. You think you cna listen, and that you are better at it than most. But what if you're surrounded by dimwits and ESTJs (I'm not saying they are the same thing, as I did put an AND between them).
But that would be the opposite of an INFP, who can listen.
The INTJ is apparently even better at creating a visual map. They can think of all the component parts of a bridge as an engineer might (with what's called "exploded" detail) so that they can see all the nuts and bolts. They can also turn the bridge around in their mind and look at all parts of it.
I find that very difficult to do. INTJs apparently find it easy.
Nardi is basically making good progress by asking what kinds of things can the different types do with their brains better than anyone else? I can write poems and novels better than almost everyone else. It's just something that's always come easily to me. I write easily.
Math comes much harder to me. I struggle with it. 2X = 6 so 3X = 9 is fairly easy for me, but once you start getting all the parentheses going we've got problemz, Houston.
So maybe we should ask Wonkavision to tell us what it is he can do better than most people, and more easily.
Give us an inventory. Originally Myers and Briggs put this system together to use it in WWII to help sort types into what kinds of jobs they can do. Can you boss people around and get the most out of them? Can you assign people to different marriages and know who would make a good couple? Can you make engineering type drawings? Can you enforce the moral code? Can you play the piano or the guitar better than others? (I mean in the top 5%, naturally.) do you have a natural ability for languages?
For me: I can make up stories very easily
Learn languages easily (but I have to work with the grammar before it falls into place)
Tell jokes and make people laugh whenever I feel like ( I can make them hysterical if I feel like it)
Things I can't do:
Make nice clothing combinations
Dance
do math problems once they get into intricate areas
If we're going to go down the functions route, we need a list of Wonkavision's functional areas, and his nonfunctional areas.
But then there's the problem of listening. I think I'm good at it. Everyone else says I'm terrible at it. I'm only good at it if what's being said is interesting, which means theoretical. If people start blabbing on about their emotions I check out and start thinking about something theoretical, or about sex, or about something else like how is it that someone cold-shouldered me that morning in the elevator, and whether it could have been about my Romney sweatshirt?
Instead we get anecdotals. We did get one guy from Portugal who said if you want to bang the whole block you're a P (no INFP would want to do that, though, as it would lose meaning) and if you just want to develop one relationship you're a J. This is just obviously wrong.
Wonkavision is a Christian so of course he's not going to bang the whole block. Christians have the one person thing. Does that make all Christians into Js?
It does not.
It may be that Js choose and then stick with their partner more faithfully. But I doubt it. That might be a question of whether you're a sexual communist or a noodist or from some crazy group like the Manson group rather than a strict Baptist.
Nardi gives you a few more details between them. If you compare the brain charts of each, the INFP is able to listen. The INFJ is able to envision. But again, how objective is this? It may seem that you are able to listen. You think you cna listen, and that you are better at it than most. But what if you're surrounded by dimwits and ESTJs (I'm not saying they are the same thing, as I did put an AND between them).
But that would be the opposite of an INFP, who can listen.
The INTJ is apparently even better at creating a visual map. They can think of all the component parts of a bridge as an engineer might (with what's called "exploded" detail) so that they can see all the nuts and bolts. They can also turn the bridge around in their mind and look at all parts of it.
I find that very difficult to do. INTJs apparently find it easy.
Nardi is basically making good progress by asking what kinds of things can the different types do with their brains better than anyone else? I can write poems and novels better than almost everyone else. It's just something that's always come easily to me. I write easily.
Math comes much harder to me. I struggle with it. 2X = 6 so 3X = 9 is fairly easy for me, but once you start getting all the parentheses going we've got problemz, Houston.
So maybe we should ask Wonkavision to tell us what it is he can do better than most people, and more easily.
Give us an inventory. Originally Myers and Briggs put this system together to use it in WWII to help sort types into what kinds of jobs they can do. Can you boss people around and get the most out of them? Can you assign people to different marriages and know who would make a good couple? Can you make engineering type drawings? Can you enforce the moral code? Can you play the piano or the guitar better than others? (I mean in the top 5%, naturally.) do you have a natural ability for languages?
For me: I can make up stories very easily
Learn languages easily (but I have to work with the grammar before it falls into place)
Tell jokes and make people laugh whenever I feel like ( I can make them hysterical if I feel like it)
Things I can't do:
Make nice clothing combinations
Dance
do math problems once they get into intricate areas
If we're going to go down the functions route, we need a list of Wonkavision's functional areas, and his nonfunctional areas.
But then there's the problem of listening. I think I'm good at it. Everyone else says I'm terrible at it. I'm only good at it if what's being said is interesting, which means theoretical. If people start blabbing on about their emotions I check out and start thinking about something theoretical, or about sex, or about something else like how is it that someone cold-shouldered me that morning in the elevator, and whether it could have been about my Romney sweatshirt?
This test is at Dario Nardi's site: http://www.keys2cognition.com/cgi/survey48.pl
What I think Wonkavision should do is imagine he's going into the army for several years and he's being asked to play his part in a huge war. He should go through and state where he's at with relationship to the various functions. What can he not only do well but better than 95% of other people so we could get him into the right place. I don't mean whether he CAN do it well once with huge effort. But whether he can for instance take care of other people and make them feel welcome for eight hours a day for three years without burning out. anybody can do anything well for five minutes. But can you do it for three years eight hours a day, well?
Nardi claims that type is a question of what we're used to doing well, and when we're doing it, it's easy and we can do it all day, no sweat. This is how Myers and Briggs originally set up the system in order to get people into the army so we could beat the Nazis. It seems to have worked. On this test I come out almost always as an INFP. I would rather come out as an INFJ, but what the heck, I typically come out as an INFP, then an ENFP then an INTP.
What I think Wonkavision should do is imagine he's going into the army for several years and he's being asked to play his part in a huge war. He should go through and state where he's at with relationship to the various functions. What can he not only do well but better than 95% of other people so we could get him into the right place. I don't mean whether he CAN do it well once with huge effort. But whether he can for instance take care of other people and make them feel welcome for eight hours a day for three years without burning out. anybody can do anything well for five minutes. But can you do it for three years eight hours a day, well?
Nardi claims that type is a question of what we're used to doing well, and when we're doing it, it's easy and we can do it all day, no sweat. This is how Myers and Briggs originally set up the system in order to get people into the army so we could beat the Nazis. It seems to have worked. On this test I come out almost always as an INFP. I would rather come out as an INFJ, but what the heck, I typically come out as an INFP, then an ENFP then an INTP.
Sentient Fool
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Comparing intuitive levels/styles..
Introverted intuitives are probably considered the stabilizers out of the intuitive types..
Extraverted intuitives are the hedonistic intuitives..
Introverted intuitives are probably considered the stabilizers out of the intuitive types..
Extraverted intuitives are the hedonistic intuitives..
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Wonkavision if you're still trying this whole J vs. P thing out, there is a real neat vid embedded in one page of Vicky Jo's webpage that I like. It asked you to try out hand gestures. People who prefer a chopping motion to people who prefer a flowing hand motion when directed to perform an activity are compared. I have to admit one of them is far preferable to me, and it's the P. I just changed my designation as a result of having done it. One of them will feel more comfortable. I wonder if other Js and Ps would try it and report whether it makes sense. You have to scroll down about two thirds of the way to find the embedded vid.
http://www.infjorinfp.com/docs/PreferredCommunicationStyle.htm
http://www.infjorinfp.com/docs/PreferredCommunicationStyle.htm
Tiegers say that FJs dress for others. They have a finished look and dress for others. FPs are sloppier, and look in process. They dress for themselves.
I am also wondering about internal thinking. I spend a lot of time clarifying ideas and ideals. I make things neat in my conscience. I can't handle an uproarious conscience with garbage everywhere. It needs to be all picked up and clarified in there.
I think the external world is far less important.
The realm of ideals and ideas is however crucial to get just right.
I am also wondering about internal thinking. I spend a lot of time clarifying ideas and ideals. I make things neat in my conscience. I can't handle an uproarious conscience with garbage everywhere. It needs to be all picked up and clarified in there.
I think the external world is far less important.
The realm of ideals and ideas is however crucial to get just right.
acd
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If I dressed for myself, I'd wear jeans, hoodies, and boots daily.. and I wouldn't even own a professional outfit or a dress or a pair of high heels.
I wish I could dress as I liked to work and other events!
How nice it would be to just wear whatever to a wedding or job interview or meeting without worrying which rules or norms or taboos my outfit could potentially break..
I wish I could dress as I liked to work and other events!
How nice it would be to just wear whatever to a wedding or job interview or meeting without worrying which rules or norms or taboos my outfit could potentially break..
CindyLou
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wtf was that
I prefer both or neither
If that lady asked me how I "felt" about chopping I would have said "what?"
I hope she asked him before filming if he was okay with being described as soft. That felt awkward to watch.
Gaze
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agree somewhat. I'd prefer wearing something relaxed, semi casual, appropriate for the workplace, but not dressed up. It's too costly to dress up everyday for work. It's not economical and often has very little to do with effectiveness. It's usually more about creating impressions which I understand are important. But it does not guarantee efficiency or effectiveness. I feel more capable of performing well if I feel comfortable in my work environment (with appropriate attire) of course. I wouldn't feel comfortable being too casual, but business or semi-casual is fine. On the other hand, too relaxed can lead to less respect for authority. Catch 22.
sassafras
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INFPs are more reclusive than INFJs. Under stress, they have a greater penchant for avoidance and slipping into their heads or day dreams. They'll write, they'll read, they'll take long, lonesome walks, research their favourite subject, think to themselves, examine their feelings, etc. They also don't feel overly guilty for disappearing on people because their 'alone time' is vital to their well-being. They might feel some guilt, but it's not the sort that will keep them up at night.
INFPs are also much more apt at critical thinking and creativity than INFJs are. They can out-analyze an INFJ any day, as they see a dozen solutions whereas an INFJ might be more concerned about those that pertain directly to the present situation.
INFPs also less concerned about personal appearance than the INFJ or ENFJ. Their dress is more relaxed and laid-back. That's not to say that they're slobs, they're just less likely to put too much thought into how they present themselves by comparison. They won't be slaves to fashion unless they are remotely interested in it to begin with.
INFJs, meanwhile, are fundamentally more social. Under stress, their first instinct is to seek out and help others. Distract themselves with other people's problems and you'll find them doling out advice or working on collaborative projects. They can't go days without human contact or meaningful connection the way INFPs can. When they read fiction, they're more likely to be interested in people's stories and relationships rather than the setting, plotlines or historical accuracy of what they're reading.
When approaching problems, they are more practical than worrying about the grassroots of the problem and INFJs are less likely to psychoanalyze themselves.
INFJs are more concerned with the social protocols of appearance and put slightly more effort into their looks. They are also more likely to adopt an exercise regime and stick to it because of extrinsic factors as opposed to the intrinsic motivations that might affect an INFP to take on a similar goal.
Essentially, because of their external judging function, INFJs have their feet on the ground more firmly than the INFP. INFJs are not as wont to daydream, to hermit or lose track of time and surroundings and their responsibilities the way INFPs sometimes do. Astrologically, INFJ is like a cross between Taurus and Cancer, an earth and water sign. INFP is more like water and air, a mix of Pisces and Aquarius.
Edit: Highlighted the important bits so as not to inconvenience people with 'walls of text.'
INFPs are also much more apt at critical thinking and creativity than INFJs are. They can out-analyze an INFJ any day, as they see a dozen solutions whereas an INFJ might be more concerned about those that pertain directly to the present situation.
INFPs also less concerned about personal appearance than the INFJ or ENFJ. Their dress is more relaxed and laid-back. That's not to say that they're slobs, they're just less likely to put too much thought into how they present themselves by comparison. They won't be slaves to fashion unless they are remotely interested in it to begin with.
INFJs, meanwhile, are fundamentally more social. Under stress, their first instinct is to seek out and help others. Distract themselves with other people's problems and you'll find them doling out advice or working on collaborative projects. They can't go days without human contact or meaningful connection the way INFPs can. When they read fiction, they're more likely to be interested in people's stories and relationships rather than the setting, plotlines or historical accuracy of what they're reading.
When approaching problems, they are more practical than worrying about the grassroots of the problem and INFJs are less likely to psychoanalyze themselves.
INFJs are more concerned with the social protocols of appearance and put slightly more effort into their looks. They are also more likely to adopt an exercise regime and stick to it because of extrinsic factors as opposed to the intrinsic motivations that might affect an INFP to take on a similar goal.
Essentially, because of their external judging function, INFJs have their feet on the ground more firmly than the INFP. INFJs are not as wont to daydream, to hermit or lose track of time and surroundings and their responsibilities the way INFPs sometimes do. Astrologically, INFJ is like a cross between Taurus and Cancer, an earth and water sign. INFP is more like water and air, a mix of Pisces and Aquarius.
Edit: Highlighted the important bits so as not to inconvenience people with 'walls of text.'
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