Values and religion

[say what]

I'm a bit of a knob when it comes to ontological thinking- especially outside of research and science. I've decided to open my mind and gain perspective for my research by sitting in on a course around religion, nature and the environment. I'm finding it extremely difficult to rework my brain, and to think more abstractly.

I'm currently reading this (http://lamar.colostate.edu/~rolston/Sci-Rel-Face.pdf), and it discusses values. It mentions that those that have an "intense sense of the worth of creations....would call its [nature] value" p.379.

I've always approached values as something that gives meaning through some form of gain as a value- thus, encouraging individuals to have value in nature, one must show them that they will gain/benefit from it. However, I feel as though they are suggesting that value comes from the idea that God created it- if God created it, it therefore has value.

I'm just curious what you guys see as 'values' in religion, and how they differ from values in other contexts. I'm really just sitting in on the course with no prior understanding of theology, so I'm feeling a bit out of place...I'm not sure if this is just a new mind having problems wrapping around the idea of values, or if it's something that is discussed a lot in this area.

 

[this is only temporary]

That's a very interesting question! I am not a particularly religious person so I may not be qualified to answer this, but I never really thought of values/value as coming from God or religion. To me "values" or "value" is a human concept humans invented to say what it is they love or what will help them. It's very abstract and can be placed into many things that are not intrinsically helpful, but closely related to survival. We value things that we think will help us survive.

I suppose in a religious context then "value" would imply salvation or going to heaven, no? Or conversly, not suffering eternal hellfire? Or the "value" of belonging to a tribe or religious group insofar as that group helps you survive? And maybe even it has to do with the taboos that have arisen over the years (i.e. don't sleep around and get syphilis because it will make your face rot off = thou shalt not commit adultery?) Not sure if that makes sense or not but that seems to be how values are put into a religious context and said to have come from God.

 

[Stu]

To me "values" or "value" is a human concept humans invented.

I agree, however there is only opinion on this topic, proving atheists have values does not negate that those values were divinely instilled. I would disagree with the word "invented" as "values" are more an evolutionarily acquired trait. It may well be that our "non-human" ancestors had "values" and for all we really know many members of the animal kingdom may also have them to varying degrees. (i would not rule out the plant world either....not to mention the host of aliens some of us believe walk among us)

 

[this is only temporary]

I agree, however there is only opinion on this topic, proving atheists have values does not negate that those values were divinely instilled. I would disagree with the word "invented" as "values" are more an evolutionarily acquired trait. It may well be that our "non-human" ancestors had "values" and for all we really know many members of the animal kingdom may also have them to varying degrees. (i would not rule out the plant world either....not to mention the host of aliens some of us believe walk among us)

OK, well, sure, agreed about the evolutionarily-acquired trait part, and that animals probably have values too -- but -- um -- aliens? All right, if you say so. But I'm willing to bet they don't value having their faces rot off either, so wouldn't values have followed the same process for them? Values = Things which support survival? So I guess the $64,000 question is do they come from God or Evolution. Wow, that was fast! (not trying to be a wiseass here, sometimes it just happens without me trying. sorry.)

 

[Flavus Aquila]

I'm a bit of a knob when it comes to ontological thinking- especially outside of research and science. I've decided to open my mind and gain perspective for my research by sitting in on a course around religion, nature and the environment. I'm finding it extremely difficult to rework my brain, and to think more abstractly.

I'm currently reading this (http://lamar.colostate.edu/~rolston/Sci-Rel-Face.pdf), and it discusses values. It mentions that those that have an "intense sense of the worth of creations....would call its [nature] value" p.379.

I've always approached values as something that gives meaning through some form of gain as a value- thus, encouraging individuals to have value in nature, one must show them that they will gain/benefit from it. However, I feel as though they are suggesting that value comes from the idea that God created it- if God created it, it therefore has value.

I'm just curious what you guys see as 'values' in religion, and how they differ from values in other contexts. I'm really just sitting in on the course with no prior understanding of theology, so I'm feeling a bit out of place...I'm not sure if this is just a new mind having problems wrapping around the idea of values, or if it's something that is discussed a lot in this area.

I don't know, but I suspect that a lot of what gets called "values" would be termed "attachments" in my religion.

Some people form an emotional significance/bond with objects/people/landscapes/etc. and express this heightened sense of significance as value. For people who are more idealistic, they might form associations between particular objects/people/landscapes/etc. with an emotionally valued ideal - such as having been created by God.

The latter seems more congruent with much of my particular religion, however, the ideal is that one come into a more perfect connection/communion with God; while at the same time striving for a greater detachment from everything else, including oneself. This process of 'supernatural' enrichment, and detachment from things of the world expresses itself in a disinterested, less emotional love/valuing of things.

I don't think I have described it well, but the basic tenet is that emotional attachment is seen to skew values, not build them for a Catholic.

 

[say what]

Very interesting! Thank you for the responses!

I've never really considered religion and ecology to be topics that went together. It's interesting to think that in order to attain a sustainability revolution, one might need to couple with religions. I wonder how successful a champaign would be if people saw value in the earth simply because it's one of God's creations, verses seeing value in the earth because it provides them with an immediate benefit (we know longterm benefits aren't necessarily a motivator for ecological behaviours).

This also goes into the idea of human nature, and the differences between a theological POV vs. a biological/ecological point of view. Human nature from the latter is the survivability of our genes for future generations, thus making human nature a very selfish trait in it's most simplest terms (that is, we do all that we can to make sure our genes survive). But what's the premise of human nature from a theological point of view?