what do guys like?

I had never heard of an attraction to the letters in the name. That is really, really cool for a fetish!!! Who would have thunk?
 
more off topic - I read your message, fly away, and realized I had a message too! :D
 
They can't be really needy. That gets old really quick.

I like intelligence in a girl, especially if they're good at writing. Good grammar is a huge turn-on.

They don't have to do drugs or anything, but they can't be soldiers of the war on drugs, either. It just wouldn't work out.

There's probably plenty of subtle quirks that irritate me, but I can't think of them right now. I don't think I'm terribly picky, but it's still hard for me to find a girl I actually like.
 
musttry said:
Thought I'd pipe in. I am not attracted to girls who cannot think outside the borders of my province/country. That's the only excluding characteristic. Oh, and I'm going to have say it, thin to average. What can I do. I will counter this non-pc affirmation by a pc one: love is in the eye of the beholder.

Media: there is no conspiracy behind the media. Only the expression of the ideology that is in place. People then position themselves for or against this ideology mostly based on whether they stand to benefit or lose from it. Even those who control the media are subjected to the ideology yet they will protect it since they stand to gain from it. Conclusion: we're all saps.

I must agree that there is definitely something about Merrytrees' avatar.
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I've also read that the media does not put anything out there that the public has not already accepted or doesn't want.. reason being, like you stated, they won't profit from it.
But still, I think that advertising in media has a huge role in what is culturally considered attractive (i.e the model pictures posted earlier.)
Their job is to convince us to consume products that we need, and why do we need the products? To be loved. So then we buy diet pills and makeup etc. etc. and men buy penis enhancement pills and whatever else.

Oh, and thanks for the avatar props.
 
merrytrees said:
Their job is to convince us to consume products that we need, and why do we need the products? To be loved.
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That's actually a tough one in my books. Needs and wants are hard to separate. However, humans are social beings and we all want to belong, whether it be to a small group of marginals or society at large. So we do things that are socially charged with meaning which are condoned by those in the group we belong to and are rejected by those in groups to which we don't belong. I would say that marketing exploits this aspect rather than tries to convince people to do something they wouldn't otherwise do.

I mixed up a whole bunch of theories here but it's my conclusion. As for the models, whatever the generation, style, century, the models of beauty will always be different from the average. Why would it be a "model" if it weren't unattainable. At least in this world of metrosexuals and muscle guys, the average guy also feels the pressure that women feel. There is justice!!! (ps, I just bought a 17 dollar bar of soap for my face, think about it).
 
merrytrees said:
I've also read that the media does not put anything out there that the public has not already accepted or doesn't want.. reason being, like you stated, they won't profit from it.
But still, I think that advertising in media has a huge role in what is culturally considered attractive (i.e the model pictures posted earlier.)
Their job is to convince us to consume products that we need, and why do we need the products? To be loved. So then we buy diet pills and makeup etc. etc. and men buy penis enhancement pills and whatever else.

Oh, and thanks for the avatar props.
Click to expand...

Yea I agree with you ... I think the media does a lot to program consumers how they should behave, how they should act, what they should be feeling. I see all these young women read People Magazine and US Weekly comparing themselves to actresses and models and I can't help think they are developing a really bad view of themselves in comparison. Why is that women adorn both men magazines AND women magazines? I always thought that was weird.

Don't forget balding products for men ;) I love that I Love Lucy where Ricky thinks he's going bald and he has Lucy do all that crap to him. Great show.

I think all the consumerism makes us alienated from one another in a way that fundamentally alters our human connections. We can no longer genuinely connect with others because our relationships must pass through the filter of our expectations as programmed by the media. People make judgments just based on the way you look and what you do...no one is treated as an individual anymore or valued because they are unique. I think this is especially true of women -- society seems ready and willing to judge women based on whether they can look as skinny as a fashion model.
 
KingOfSpades said:
Yea I agree with you ... I think the media does a lot to program consumers how they should behave, how they should act, what they should be feeling. I see all these young women read People Magazine and US Weekly comparing themselves to actresses and models and I can't help think they are developing a really bad view of themselves in comparison. Why is that women adorn both men magazines AND women magazines? I always thought that was weird.

Don't forget balding products for men ;) I love that I Love Lucy where Ricky thinks he's going bald and he has Lucy do all that crap to him. Great show.

I think all the consumerism makes us alienated from one another in a way that fundamentally alters our human connections. We can no longer genuinely connect with others because our relationships must pass through the filter of our expectations as programmed by the media. People make judgments just based on the way you look and what you do...no one is treated as an individual anymore or valued because they are unique. I think this is especially true of women -- society seems ready and willing to judge women based on whether they can look as skinny as a fashion model.
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Yes, western society is sick.
 
KingOfSpades said:
I think all the consumerism makes us alienated from one another in a way that fundamentally alters our human connections. We can no longer genuinely connect with others because our relationships must pass through the filter of our expectations as programmed by the media. People make judgments just based on the way you look and what you do...no one is treated as an individual anymore or valued because they are unique. I think this is especially true of women -- society seems ready and willing to judge women based on whether they can look as skinny as a fashion model.
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I gotta disagree with you KingOfSpades, I connect just fine with other humans. Even if there were no media, there would still be expectations placed on you and people have and will always make judgements. Media is simply the massification of these judgements to a wider public.

The advantage is that it is not enforced in a tightly knit community and so you can reject it if you wish. Remember in the good ol times when people had to think the way the local church minister expected them to, marry the right person in the community, do exactly what their parents did and have no access to social mobility? I think massification means more personal flexibility to choose your path.

Personally, and since we are in an INFJ forum, I think most people do not stop at the superficial, especially INFJs.
 
musttry said:
I gotta disagree with you KingOfSpades, I connect just fine with other humans. Even if there were no media, there would still be expectations placed on you and people have and will always make judgements. Media is simply the massification of these judgements to a wider public.

The advantage is that it is not enforced in a tightly knit community and so you can reject it if you wish. Remember in the good ol times when people had to think the way the local church minister expected them to, marry the right person in the community, do exactly what their parents did and have no access to social mobility? I think massification means more personal flexibility to choose your path.

Personally, and since we are in an INFJ forum, I think most people do not stop at the superficial, especially INFJs.
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You are absolutely right that in the old days there were still forms of control (like the church minister oration). But the media can be powerful. The Nazis invented modern propaganda and they were masters of using radio and film as a way of brainwashing people. In ten years they convinced millions to look the other way as they waged war and committed mass murder! I don't think any German expected that in 1932.

But, this isn't Nazi Germany, so the analogy only stretches so far. I agree that individual people can opt-out and learn to connect as individuals once more, and as INFJs we are probably more apt to do that. On the other hand, how many people would you say really are genuine non-conformists in today's society? I don't think there are that many. Everyone watches Lost or a reality show, wants an iPod, etc. You're considered "alternative" or a "hipster" if you buy second hand products and grow your hair out. This is a far cry from the 60s, say, when people were literally in the streets and getting violent with their parents and other authority figures. I think by a lot of measures this generation is as docile and compliant as any since the generation gap began.

I guess i see all these young girls with anoxeria and related body image problems, and so many people worrying about buying a house or getting married just because this is what TV says to do. So maybe the brainwashing is more subtle, but I would argue that it's there, and that we act it out in more ways than we think.
 
KingOfSpades said:
I think all the consumerism makes us alienated from one another in a way that fundamentally alters our human connections. We can no longer genuinely connect with others because our relationships must pass through the filter of our expectations as programmed by the media.
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I disagree. The media is only working with things that people already agree with, otherwise they wouldnt be able to sell thier products.
People make judgments just based on the way you look and what you do...no one is treated as an individual anymore or valued because they are unique.
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No because individuality is promoted all the time through the media. See MTV, public school, etc.
I think this is especially true of women -- society seems ready and willing to judge women based on whether they can look as skinny as a fashion model.
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I pretty much covered this with my first comment, but most people want a girl who is proportionally sized and healthy, niether fat nor skinny. I said it in another thread, the models are skinny to show off the clothes, not themselves.
 
First -- I love disagreement, so please feel free to challenge anything I say (and I will do the same ;) )

I disagree. The media is only working with things that people already agree with, otherwise they wouldnt be able to sell thier products
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That's a pretty fuzzy area as to what people "agree" with and I think there is definitely room for manipulation. In order to sell the most products the media has to appeal to the widest possible market. So it will invest in TV shows, movies, music etc that is "dumbed down" or non-controversial to as many people as possible. I think this is why you don't see mixed-race couples on TV, homosexual couples, etc. So then, the image you are fed when you watch TV is that only white people should date white people (or asian with asian, etc), and so on.

Someone did a study showing how all the old Disney villains had accents of some sort or another, and that kids started to associate villainy with accents. Here is a student paper I was able to quickly find on Google with citations:

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~haroldfs/popcult/handouts/wenkeric.htm

No because individuality is promoted all the time through the media. See MTV, public school, etc.
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I don't think individuality is really promoted in those places. MTV again showcases a certain lifestyle that you can buy into. The "real world" has a bunch of drunk 20 somethings who are considered conventionally pretty getting into silly drama over who likes who. There is no real genuine individuality. Same in public schools -- schools are the training ground for conformity. you have to look a certain way, follow the rules, etc. Foucault pointed out taht schools and prisons look very similar in a lot of respects.

Re: the point on body image and beauty, I think a lot of that is cultural. I don't have a readily handy cite but I think the Romans liked women we would consider "heavy" today. And Greek women statues were not hour-glass shaped but had small breasts and wide hips.

I think the research into proportions (people with symmetrical faces being more attractive) is probably cross cultural since symmetry is maybe more related our general aesthetic sense of beauty?? that's just a guess. But I do think that body size and bust-to-hip ratio and all that jazz is more influenced by social norms.

Just look at old pictures of starlets from the 30s. They definitely would weigh more than models and starlets today.
 
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musttry said:
I would say that marketing exploits this aspect rather than tries to convince people to do something they wouldn't otherwise do.
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I agree completely, exploit is the perfect word for it. It's the nature of their business..


musttry said:
Why would it be a "model" if it weren't unattainable.
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Indeed, right you are!
 
KingOfSpades said:
That's a pretty fuzzy area as to what people "agree" with and I think there is definitely room for manipulation.
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Perhaps it is fuzzy but I think uberrogo has a point. In my line of work, all we do is try to figure out what consumers want and it is usually expressed by measures of appreciation for something or intentions of buying. Therefore, it is as close as you can get to “agreeing”.

KingOfSpades said:
In order to appeal to the sell the most products the media has to appeal to the widest possible market. So it will invest in TV shows, movies, music etc that is "dumbed down" or non-controversial to as many people as possible.
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I agree, media will have the least controversial message and therefore is a good measure of where society as whole stands with regards to certain issues.

KingOfSpades said:
There is no real genuine individuality. Same in public schools -- schools are the training ground for conformity. you have to look a certain way, follow the rules, etc. Foucault pointed out taht schools and prisons look very similar in a lot of respects.
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Nice! Quoting Foucault. I don’t remember this from his work but, both are institutions with explicit and implicit lines of conduct. They are both meant to socialize the individual.

KingOfSpades said:
The Nazis invented modern propaganda and they were masters of using radio and film as a way of brainwashing people.
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I do not deny the existence of propaganda; I simply do not agree that it is a recent phenomenon. Remember in Gladiator? The coliseum was a tool to control the masses. It kept them entertained and therefore gave little chance for revolution. It demonstrated power and gave people their identity and pride. A perfect tool for propaganda! Might I remind you that my government has troops in Afghanistan and we are not revolting or crying the deaths of the innocent. We have no idea what is going on out there so we swallow what is fed to us on our entertainment units.

KingOfSpades said:
On the other hand, how many people would you say really are genuine non-conformists in today's society? I don't think there are that many.
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Of course there aren’t many. Society cannot sustain itself if everyone goes any which way. The whole point is to keep a certain sense of uniformity and so people can understand one another and act as a whole by way of common ideals and values, etc.

KingOfSpades said:
This is a far cry from the 60s, say, when people were literally in the streets and getting violent with their parents and other authority figures.
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That is exactly what society tries to stop in order to survive. However, social unrest happens and can be cyclical. Durkheim (my turn!) talks about anomie, the disconnectedness with society. When there is enough, there is revolution! (although he was studying acts of suicide more than social uprises).

KingOfSpades said:
I guess i see all these young girls with anoxeria and related body image problems, and so many people worrying about buying a house or getting married just because this is what TV says to do. So maybe the brainwashing is more subtle, but I would argue that it's there, and that we act it out in more ways than we think.
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I feel you. But my point is that if it weren’t this ideal, it would be another. Human nature does not change. There must be a common line of action to which everyone compares themselves, whether they go for it or not.
 
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musttry said:
I feel you. But my point is that if it weren’t this ideal, it would be another. Human nature does not change. There must be a common line of action to which everyone compares themselves, whether they go for it or not.
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Seems maybe we only disagree about this point. I agree with your other points, and I concede that propaganda has been around for a while. social conformity is possibly as old as civilization itself.

what if though, our common line of action related to differences? That is, we lived in social settings which valued people thinking differently, looking differently, etc.? I don't think this is that unattainable.

Can we not imagine a society whereby we say "these are the basic ground rules -- respect one another, don't be violent -- but otherwise you are free to do what you want"? Seems to be that is the real definition of liberty.

Do we really need this "common line of action"? Seems like a sheep mentality. I agree there are a lot of sheep in this world, but does that always have to be the case?
 
Going back to the original topic: My criteria has always been a quote from the one and only Spike Spiegel: "I love a girl who can kick my ass."

On a more serious note, I'd say I'd like someone who can take care of herself physically, mentally, and emotionally. Someone who's prepared in life and has a good attitude for dealing with problems. Outgoing and compassionate, inquisitive and introspective--basically, someone who can be confidant and guardian in one nice package.
 
lol it's funny how you guys come from one subject and slowly drift into another lol fun fun
anyways...haha you guys r great...

*shrugs* i just wanted to know what stuff guys liked because as a whole i would have collected the data and shown it to my friends showing, hey, see? this is what guys like, not all of them like big boobs and crap like that...and yeah haha and i'd like to see the diffrences of what different types of guys like ya know? lol
 
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