What do you think about jesus

enfp can be shy said:
Jesus is a concept, representing specific human character, which has existed for as long as there's been Homo sapiens. You can find it in arts and religions from prehistoric times to the present day.

One of the mistakes of the Christian canons is to expect Jesus to return at the end of time for the judgment day of love. What actually happens is that he (this human character) returns in all generations and societies repeatedly, and with many faces, and the judgment day of love happens for real in every generation, under many smaller or bigger forms.

You can even find such Jesus in many INFJ members of this forum, regardless of their beliefs / atheism, because "by their deeds you shall know them", and they live the closest to how Jesus would have lived as a human in today's world.
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uhhhhh. no.
 
Heard a person once say there was more evidence Jesus was alive than Caesar, but I never researched that to prove or disprove it. Some people say there was no Holocaust, which I see as a form of denial.

I find it amazing how many people over the years said He was a great teacher, then turned around and disagreed with what He had said.

The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those that do not believe, yet the power of God to those that do. I cannot understand how anyone could doubt His presence in the flesh here in our history, yet do not expect everyone to believe His teachings. If what He taught was false, how could He have been a good teacher?
 
The True Jesus is not the Jesus most people think of today.

I have recently been heavily researching the man called Jesus and I am completely fascinated.

I must say, the information I have uncovered has changed my life.

Mind you, I was raised by very religious parents. As a child I was taught to say my prayers and repent for my sins, but as I grew older I resented the religious system for all the obvious reasons.

I went through a really difficult crisis of faith and came out on the other side an agnostic/atheist.

The Jesus I now know is not the Jesus I was taught.

I believe many people are led astray by the incorrect version of Jesus being pushed by the church today.

It is probably true that the atheists and agnostics are closer to God than most conservative religious folks.

Unconditional love is quite the liberal message.

Check out the Gospel of Thomas and the other Gnostic gospels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_Gospels

Rome did put the bible together to portray a very different Jesus from the one I have come to know.

It is such a travesty how so many millions of people have been misled over the years.

If you seek the true Jesus, what you will find is truly astonishing.

I had to 'lose my faith' in order to get to this place.

It wasn't an easy road, but I am so glad to have found Him.

: )
 
.... so are you christian or agnostic. Because apparently in this thread those are the same thing. blargh.
 
[MENTION=963]myself[/MENTION] What have you found? I was under the impression we new very little about Jesus the man. His teachings, yes but not much of his day to day life or who he really was.

After all, it does seem that there is much ambiguity to him in the bible. People find evidence of him being gay, straight, bi and asexual for example. His pesonality is supposedly different in every gospel and if we look hard enough, we can see ourselves in him.

I really don't care so much for the theistic parts of his teachings but I like his liberal agenda of free love. :mhula: @ neo-conservatives.
 
bickelz said:
[MENTION=963]myself[/MENTION] What have you found? I was under the impression we new very little about Jesus the man. His teachings, yes but not much of his day to day life or who he really was.

After all, it does seem that there is much ambiguity to him in the bible. People find evidence of him being gay, straight, bi and asexual for example. His pesonality is supposedly different in every gospel and if we look hard enough, we can see ourselves in him.

I really don't care so much for the theistic parts of his teachings but I like his liberal agenda of free love. :mhula: @ neo-conservatives.
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I hesitate to share any links openly.

If you would like to see what I've been looking into just send me a PM.

I want to warn you though, this is life altering info.

Many people will not be able to handle it.

If you are of the liberal persuasion, you are on the right track.

It's all about Love and Light, the nature of the universe...

I came upon this after years of searching and most recently through a study of sacred geometry and the mechanics of space/time.

Delving into the history of Ancient Egypt and the pyramids also put me on this path. It's all tied together.
 
so... then you're not christian...?
 
I believe Jesus was a real man, I have the upmost respect for him and his teachings, I think people view him as 'the son of god' because not many, if hardly any humans are ever so caring, self less and amazing as he was, esp back in the times he lived in. I believe he was a buddha.
 
kiu said:
I think his philosophy is worthwhile and powerful however, it requires more strength of character than I could ever muster. I am not convinced he existed. He's strongly associated with humility which I find odd because he strikes me as rather arrogant and bold. I have opinions regarding the theology but I don't discuss those since I'm no longer a believer.
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As C.S. Lewis writes much more eloquently than I could: "A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God; or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon; or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."

I think Jesus evokes the strongest responses of anyone or thing I know. I have seen people angry at mention of his name, frantically tapping at buttons to switch over Christian radio stations, affronted at some kind of invasion into their minds. "Bible-bashing" perhaps, that gets a lot of stick these days. I personally used to have a fear of the man Jesus. I don't know why it was there, or what it was. I gradually over time read more of the Bible, went to church more, prayed more, and now it's been dissipated, and
replaced with the most beautiful peace when I think of him. Strength is what Jesus brings to me now.

At the time I think He was goodness and gentleness and ease and compassion. As Lewis writes above, faith is something that you can choose, because it's not logical. I choose to believe Jesus was the Son of God and as such man and God both. If you were to say but that's not rational, that doesn't make sense, I'd agree. It's what Kierkegaard calls "belief on the strength of the absurd". I take that leap of faith.
 
Divine Wannabee said:
What do you thinki about jesus?
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I think he was badass. He'd stop a storm by slapping it with a newspaper in the nose and calling it a bad girl; and then forced out those moneychangers. Not a fan of his ideas, but... beautiful.

what do you believe he was like?
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He was an aggressive Knight Templar, but very compassionate and protective.

do you understand his concepts?
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To an extent. I disagree with a fair few of the ones I do understand.

do you believe his character was such a way as to be regarded Divine?
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do you think he was really god in human form?[/QUOTE]
Not really. Not anymore than any of us are.
 
Altruistic Muse said:
As Lewis writes above, faith is something that you can choose, because it's not logical. I choose to believe Jesus was the Son of God and as such man and God both. If you were to say but that's not rational, that doesn't make sense, I'd agree. It's what Kierkegaard calls "belief on the strength of the absurd". I take that leap of faith.
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This is the difference between the United States and the rest of the world.
 
bickelz said:
This is the difference between the United States and the rest of the world.
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Hmm how do you mean? I'm not from the US... I do however think that the current propensity to think the brain omnipotent and rationality the only answer, is both extreme arrogance and ignorance. Why do things need to be "proven", I wonder. Why is heart considered weaker than the mind? Not so, in my opinion.
 
[MENTION=991]Altruistic Muse[/MENTION]

Well, you admit that illogical is illogical an that you're taking a leap of faith by believing in god.

In America, the evangelical movement thinks it's illogical not to believe in the bible because the bible is god's word (self proving). They take agnosticism as a leap of faith even though it's the opposite of that and then tell you you will burn in hell.

Bono, although people hate him, speaks in the way that you do about his faith. I read a book that this french reporter wrote about him that was a collection of interviews between the two (they were friends) and although he talked about his faith, he wasn't pushy about it. And I get this from the religious crowd a lot here, even in liberal Seattle area.

Using an example that I identify with, many evangelicals talk about the "gay agenda" as if the lgbt community was trying to recruit people by advertising or being out in public places talking to people about it. Especially, "they're in the schools recruiting your little boys". In high school, never saw it. At my liberal hippie college with a "thriving gay community", never saw it. Walk through Seattle, never saw it (besides the parade).
But when I walk into my high school in the morning, Christians trying to get me to go to church with ads. Through campus, people telling me I'm going to hell. Is it very prominent? No.

The problem is that they don't realize they have an agenda. It's cool you believe but if my own dad tells me that I'm going to hell, I will meet many of these people with some hostility because that's who he hangs around with.

But in reading your comments,I don't get that vibe and it's refreshing.
 
Altruistic Muse said:
I do however think that the current propensity to think the brain omnipotent and rationality the only answer, is both extreme arrogance and ignorance. Why do things need to be "proven", I wonder.
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Rationality ensures progress, both individual and as collective species. Things need to be proven scientifically, because otherwise any objective sense of construction and destruction is lost. We are able to sustain a civilized society because we are rational beings, and because we are able to build on previously studied and constructed models of rational thought. I agree that it fails to hold up when considering the metaphysical (as we do not have enough information to be inclusive), but within the bounds of our universe, rationality is very much important.

There is a pressing need to prove the existence of God in order to eradicate inequality, injustice, abuse, hate, in the name of religion, so society may progress.

There is a pressing need to prove in general so we can survive as a civilization, to avoid unfair dominion of leaders who may climb to power based on lies, to sustain economy, justice, to gain knowledge and deeper understanding of laws and theorems on which Nature works and apply that in our daily lives.

I do not understand how you can claim this as ignorance. It's an absolute necessity.
 
Arsal said:
Rationality ensures progress, both individual and as collective species. Things need to be proven scientifically, because otherwise any objective sense of construction and destruction is lost. We are able to sustain a civilized society because we are rational beings, and because we are able to build on previously studied and constructed models of rational thought. I agree that it fails to hold up when considering the metaphysical (as we do not have enough information to be inclusive), but within the bounds of our universe, rationality is very much important.

There is a pressing need to prove the existence of God in order to eradicate inequality, injustice, abuse, hate, in the name of religion, so society may progress.

There is a pressing need to prove in general so we can survive as a civilization, to avoid unfair dominion of leaders who may climb to power based on lies, to sustain economy, justice, to gain knowledge and deeper understanding of laws and theorems on which Nature works and apply that in our daily lives.

I do not understand how you can claim this as ignorance. It's an absolute necessity.
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I understand your point. Perhaps I should have articulated myself better. I am not saying that people shouldn't push themselves intellectually, and that scientific discovery doesn't improve society. It's an element of our existence, it plays its part and in many ways it is beneficial. However, the current stance for many is that absolutely everything can and must be analysed and explained using science and logic. And that this negates the need for a God. I disagree with these points. Science explains the "where and how". It describes processes. I think that is its place. When you start to suggest that it can provide answers to the "who and why", this is where I think people are missing the point. Centuries and centuries of stacked up "facts" and philosophies, they change with the wind, and where do they get us anyway? Rationality is knowledge, which is a possession. It weighs you down with self-importance, pride, arrogance. I personally would rather seek out freedom. You can use science to help to cure illnesses, engineer buildings with better earthquake resistance. You can't prevent cancer mutating, or stop an earthquake in its tracks. Logic has limits, God is boundless. And I don't think that it is necessary (or possible) to prove the existence of God to prevent religious disputes. If people understand Him in the right way, the last thing they want is disputes.
 
bickelz said:
@Altruistic Muse

Well, you admit that illogical is illogical an that you're taking a leap of faith by believing in god.

In America, the evangelical movement thinks it's illogical not to believe in the bible because the bible is god's word (self proving). They take agnosticism as a leap of faith even though it's the opposite of that and then tell you you will burn in hell.

Bono, although people hate him, speaks in the way that you do about his faith. I read a book that this french reporter wrote about him that was a collection of interviews between the two (they were friends) and although he talked about his faith, he wasn't pushy about it. And I get this from the religious crowd a lot here, even in liberal Seattle area.

Using an example that I identify with, many evangelicals talk about the "gay agenda" as if the lgbt community was trying to recruit people by advertising or being out in public places talking to people about it. Especially, "they're in the schools recruiting your little boys". In high school, never saw it. At my liberal hippie college with a "thriving gay community", never saw it. Walk through Seattle, never saw it (besides the parade).
But when I walk into my high school in the morning, Christians trying to get me to go to church with ads. Through campus, people telling me I'm going to hell. Is it very prominent? No.

The problem is that they don't realize they have an agenda. It's cool you believe but if my own dad tells me that I'm going to hell, I will meet many of these people with some hostility because that's who he hangs around with.

But in reading your comments,I don't get that vibe and it's refreshing.
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Thanks [MENTION=3545]bickelz[/MENTION]. I'm sorry to hear of your bad experiences. Sigh. It's very disappointing. I think it must be very easy to get sucked into that whole "agenda", if you were to attend an Evangelical Church. Although I do go to a Pentecostal one myself, (as well as Catholic), I refuse to get into the minutiae of the matter. The way I see it, my faith should enable me to be my best self. Least selfish, most loving and compassionate. Anything that starts taking away from that, is to be avoided. And for me judging anyone over anything is a massive no. That's not to say I condone things that I don't agree with as such. If I was asked my opinion on a matter I would give it. But actively going out to essentially persecute groups just shouldn't be part of the deal.
 
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