What is good about INFJ foresight?

KingOfSpades said:
Genuine foresight has been replaced with standard answers from legal codes and religious texts of a variety of sort...
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<derail>
Ever notice how the legal codes are the religious texts now? :lol:
People use and abuse them the same way they used to manipulate various sacred texts back when "everyone was a Christian."
</derail>
 
Milon said:
<derail>
Ever notice how the legal codes are the religious texts now? :lol:
People use and abuse them the same way they used to manipulate various sacred texts back when "everyone was a Christian."
</derail>
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Most legal codes were derived from religious texts. The Traditionalists see this as proof of the correctness of their respective holy scriptures and believe the government should be returning to them.
 
Satya said:
Most legal codes were derived from religious texts. The Traditionalists see this as proof of the correctness of their respective holy scriptures and believe the government should be returning to them.
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Good point. (And don't I know it! :ohwell:)
 
Satya, you've brought up some really good points, though - and sometimes age is a factor...and sometimes it isn't. I think the longer you recognize yourself and allow yourself to Be the easier it is to get through these uncomfortable times.

For me, I realize I can be a self-fulfilling/defeating prophecy if I see it all under a negative cloud - I can force the worst things forward, when I actually have a choice (and I'm choosing to do something else instead). I think it's best to relax, sometimes, when NiFe is going full-tilt in us. That's the time when we need to seriously meditate...or we'll drive ourselves bonkers.

Literally.
 
Satya said:
Most legal codes were derived from religious texts. The Traditionalists see this as proof of the correctness of their respective holy scriptures and believe the government should be returning to them.
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Hm...is this really the case? Maybe in the ancient world. Modern constitutionalism seems to have a very solid basis in Enlightenment thought. The US Framers were not very religious, for example.
 
KingOfSpades said:
Hm...is this really the case? Maybe in the ancient world. Modern constitutionalism seems to have a very solid basis in Enlightenment thought. The US Framers were not very religious, for example.
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America's constitutionalism is still one of the greatest experiments of man kind. It's the bastard child of Athenian democracy, Roman republicanism, deistic thought, classical liberalism, Christian ideology, and puritan work ethic. It's a melting pot of ideas; some secular and some religious.

However, I've debated enough Christians to know that they can relate any legal code you can come up with to the Bible or some Christian church.
 
Satya said:
America's constitutionalism is still one of the greatest experiments of man kind. It's the bastard child of Athenian democracy, Roman republicanism, deistic thought, classical liberalism, Christian ideology, and puritan work ethic. It's a melting pot of ideas; some secular and some religious.

However, I've debated enough Christians to know that they can relate any legal code you can come up with to the Bible or some Christian church.
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Agreed re: the American experiment (although I am personally hard pressed to find much Christian influence in the Constitution, it may very well be there though -- seems more a creature of Isaac Newton than Luke or Mark)

Haha...I read another post where you mentioned where you live and the intolerance you experience every day so I definitely feel for you. Have you seen "There Will Be Blood"? Great social commentary on that point and about relating anything to the Bible (including the oil rush!)

The way I see it we are due for a social awakening regarding tolerance and reason any day now....no basis for this other than my own hope. Otherwise life seems too dark. I hope we can go back to our Enlightenment roots eventually.

sorry for the off topic :)
 
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Satya said:
America's constitutionalism is still one of the greatest experiments of man kind. It's the bastard child of Athenian democracy, Roman republicanism, deistic thought, classical liberalism, Christian ideology, and puritan work ethic. It's a melting pot of ideas; some secular and some religious.

However, I've debated enough Christians to know that they can relate any legal code you can come up with to the Bible or some Christian church.
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All Christians are people and we each have our own ways of explaining our beliefs. Several documents in our history books and even definitions in our dictionary have been changed to influence the way people perceive things were. Yes, it was some sort of melting pot of ideas; some secular and some religious. There are those that will remove all the religious portions from the texts as time goes on should they have their way.
 
just me said:
All Christians are people and we each have our own ways of explaining our beliefs. Several documents in our history books and even definitions in our dictionary have been changed to influence the way people perceive things were. Yes, it was some sort of melting pot of ideas; some secular and some religious. There are those that will remove all the religious portions from the texts as time goes on should they have their way.
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There are those who would remove the secular portions from the texts as time goes on should they have their way.
 
Satya said:
foresight

  • providence by virtue of planning prudently for the future
  • prevision: seeing ahead; knowing in advance; foreseeing
  • the ability to foresee or prepare wisely for the future
  • the discipline of developing a forward view in time; link-theme between spiritual dimension and mental dimension
INFJs are credited for having foresight. I know that I look to the future. I'm constantly making plans in my head for things big and small. The problem is that I haven't seen much good coming from it. An INFJ is always thinking about the possible outcomes of their actions. But think of all those instances where that backfires...

All those times you didn't take a risk because you were worried about how it would turn out down the road.
All those times you didn't trust people close to you because you predicted they might betray you.
All those times you suffered anxiety and stress when you didn't know how you were going to accomplish all the things you felt you needed to accomplish.
All those times you used your predictoins as an excuse not to do something that you needed to do.

So what is the good that comes from foresight?
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Ni actually works best when we don't think about it. It's hard not to when it is our dominant function, but in my experience, the most honest insights always come from not focusing on what I need to know. They just pop into my head. I think about something else and put it on 'percolate'. When I do worry about something, I've found that my insights are almost never clear, most likely because at that point I'm using Ne which is kryptonite for most INFJs, often telling us everything that isn't true. For us, Ni is an implosion to the only possibility, but Ne is an explosion to every impossibility.
 
I have learned to trust my instincts the older i get and exercising my perception skills has helped a great deal in my life. I try to predict the outcomes of things that are directly involved with me. Usually I can get pretty close to being right most of the time. And even when I am wrong I am usually right on some level. This ability has kept me outta trouble several times and without it me and my friends would be in jail long ago. It has saved my life on many occasions and it is a skill I am glad to have. Thinking things thru is a gift no matter what people think..
 
Von Hase said:
Ni actually works best when we don't think about it.
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That is a good point. Ni is invaluable when it comes to listening to people. When I'm concentrating on what a person is saying, my instincts generally kick in and give me a pretty good idea of whether or not they are lying. Often if I look for external evidence of such, then I'll end up in trouble.The gut just knows.
 
Von Hase said:
Ni actually works best when we don't think about it. It's hard not to when it is our dominant function, but in my experience, the most honest insights always come from not focusing on what I need to know. They just pop into my head. I think about something else and put it on 'percolate'. When I do worry about something, I've found that my insights are almost never clear, most likely because at that point I'm using Ne which is kryptonite for most INFJs, often telling us everything that isn't true. For us, Ni is an implosion to the only possibility, but Ne is an explosion to every impossibility.
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Every time you write something about the cognitive processes, Von, I learn something new - and it actually makes more sense to me. I think you're my new cognitive guru go-to guy.

If that make sense. :D
 
Satya said:
That is a good point. Ni is invaluable when it comes to listening to people. When I'm concentrating on what a person is saying, my instincts generally kick in and give me a pretty good idea of whether or not they are lying. Often if I look for external evidence of such, then I'll end up in trouble.The gut just knows.
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I couple the two together actually. Body laguange triggers different reading modes, and then I know what to look for. Of course, if you ask me to describe the body laguanges, I will fall short to tell you.
 
Most of my main functions are fairly developed, so I don't lean so heavily on my Ni. Usually, I'm able to predict many possible outcomes for a lot of things, especially socially or politically, but I go about it somewhat systematically, utilizing my Ti, I believe.

The only time I make "predictions" with Ni alone is when it has to deal with how I feel, what I want to do, or, as was mentioned, quickly determining the personality of people and whether or not they are "sincere." Usually, I don't realize I'm doing this, but it's also surprisingly accurate. Really, my Ni has never really lead me wrong, and I've never really felt held back by it. I know subconsciously how to use it, and if I'm uneasy about a prediction, I filter through it with my other functions.
 
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I wish I was a little better at Ni. My Fe can overpower it at times, and then I care more about what people are thinking - and I become a walking *disaster.* Ni works best for me when I'm not thinking about it. If I try to hone in on it and concentrate using Ni, it's like trying to hold onto water; it slips through my fingers.

That's why I *need* to meditate, though. If I don't, I don't give myself the freedom to dream and use my intuition more often (as I should!).
 
I think I need to take up meditation again. For stress management if nothing else.
 
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