Whatever happened to Christian fiction?

[willow]

I agree somewhat but I do think there needs to be some balance and diversity of strategies used to get the message across. Literature has always been a great way to transmit a message in a way that engages the imagination. Challenging messages doesn't necessarily need to be transmitted in challenging ways. Helping people understand why the message is important instead of a "take it or leave it" approach makes it easier to receive a message.

I like Christian romance fiction because it used romance to communicate the meaning of love and lived faith in the context of a relationship. It shows indirectly the effects of living through difficult circumstances or situations and learning how faith operates to encourage survival and personal feeling of empowerment and success.

I agree.

It's no longer just the message which needs to be considered but how to get it across. For example, those hell and damnation sermons may've been effective in getting people to convert but it also taught Christians in some ways to fear God in an unhealthy way, suggesting that God was only a God of judgment and punishment.

Don't get me wrong. When I'm talking about seriousness, I'm not talking about hell and damnation. (These are important topics that Jesus dealt with but he always provided the solution. In Christianity, good overcomes evil.) Instead, I'm talking about the very issues you mentioned that you wanted to be handled in the literature, the struggles that people today face. They are serious issues and require a proper understanding of the faith in order to tackle them in literature in a way that is both entertaining and instructive. The problem I see is that many Christians shy away from studying these issues and instead cling to "What would Jesus do?" while completely forgetting that he struggled with temptation as we did (though he did not succumb). This avoidance results in literature that creates caricatures instead of characters. We can't relate to them because their struggles lack depth. We are presented with characters who magically transform instead of characters whose virtues are forged.

On another note, I do feel that there are particular groups of Christians who are overly emphasized in the literature. For example, not all Christians believe in the rapture but thanks to Tim LaHaye's series one would think that every Christian agrees on how the book of Revelation should be interpreted. I completely avoid the Christian section of my bookstore because of the lack of representation of other opinions. It is funny how a group that makes up the minority of the world's Christians have so much influence.

I would also hope that books were written for audiences of varying levels of reading skill. Christianity has a long history associated with education. This is not the time to start dumbing things down. We should be raising standards.

 

[Gaze]

The problem I see is that many Christians shy away from studying these issues and instead cling to "What would Jesus do?" while completely forgetting that he struggled with temptation as we did (though he did not succumb). This avoidance results in literature that creates caricatures instead of characters. We can't relate to them because their struggles lack depth. We are presented with characters who magically transform instead of characters whose virtues are forged. .

agree.

I would also hope that books were written for audiences of varying levels of reading skill. Christianity has a long history associated with education. This is not the time to start dumbing things down. We should be raising standards.

Also agree. There is too much of a belief today that being a Christian or thinking in terms of Christian perspectives spells irrational thought, illogical, and requires little intellectual effort. Fortunately, that's not true but it's fairly easy to get this impression when the message is dumbed down or if stories of faith are often too simplistic, especially when writers too often default to writing people of faith as being too naive or childlike (not in a positive way).

 

[GracieRuth]

Love you, Rite. Yes, I realize that Chrsitians span the same spectrum of rationality/irrationality as any group of human beings. However, thank you for realizing that these cranked out Christian novels are used by those hostile to your faith to "prove" what idiots Christians are.

I suppose my underlying assumption goes like this: If you try to teach something directly through prose, the other person knows you have an agenda, and places up FILTERS to what you say. While this talent is helpful in keeping assorted crap from taking up brain space, it makes it more difficult for the other person to even "hear" you and consider your ideas in a non-biased fashion. On the other hand, if you "hide" your ideas in the fabric of a well told tale, the other person "tries on" your views for size because fiction requires that we temporarilty suspend disbelief. Thus fiction is a MUCH better form of teaching than prose. It's why all our deepest values are encased in Myth. And it's why I laugh whenever I hear someone say "It's JUST a myth."

The problem that I'm pointing out in contemporary chrsitian fiction is that they don't accomplish what a story is supposed to accomplish (the pleasure of believeing something else, even if only for the duration of the book). People immediately spot the agenda and the filters go up.

 

[willow]

On the other hand, if you "hide" your ideas in the fabric of a well told tale, the other person "tries on" your views for size because fiction requires that we temporarilty suspend disbelief. Thus fiction is a MUCH better form of teaching than prose. It's why all our deepest values are encased in Myth. And it's why I laugh whenever I hear someone say "It's JUST a myth."

Some Protestants, in particular the fundamentalists, hold to "Sola Scriptura" but define it differently from catholics (small "c"). Catholics believe the Bible (OT and NT) have all that is necessary to teach the gospel but tradition enhances the understanding of the context. Fundamentalists however, interpret "Sola Scriptura" as a literal interpretation of the Bible and reject tradition. This kind of thinking breeds a distrust of myths and symbols which are often seen as evidence of syncretism and so they reject it in other Christian literature including fiction. It also leads to a suspicion of catholics and makes dialogue difficult. The good thing however, is there seems to be an increasing interest among Evangelicals in tradition. Hopefully, that will change attitudes, towards myth and symbols, which at the moment border on superstition. I agree that fiction would be better off.

 

[Gaze]

The problem that I'm pointing out in contemporary chrsitian fiction is that they don't accomplish what a story is supposed to accomplish (the pleasure of believeing something else, even if only for the duration of the book). People immediately spot the agenda and the filters go up.

Well, the main reason why people spot the agenda so quickly today and resist it is of course because Christian principles and ideas are not as highly regarded or followed the way they once were. Also, early, Christian education was a part of the curriculum beyond lessons taught in religious institutions so it was more pervasive, which is why people recogni ed familiar symbols, images, or religious concepts in literature by authors such as Tolkien and Lewis who incorporated those symbols throughout their works in narrative form through literary tropes and techniques.

So this issue can't be separated from societal changes involving the lessening interest and value of Christian thinking, especially when its more widely acceptable to denounce Christian belief not just as an belief but as a myth. People are encouraged to see the belief as not reasonable or plausible or very modern. So, it makes it easier to notice it in a novel because it is seen as contradictory to more liberal and popular cultural perspectives on religion.

Novels can never be completely understood without considering the socio-political, cultural and historical conditions in which they're produced.

 

[arbygil]

I was in class tonight, so I missed much of this wonderful discussion. I'm like you, [MENTION=4576]GracieRuth[/MENTION] - I'm excited to see it all discussed!

One thing I'd like to add, is that there are genres for all types of fiction but think the genre Christian fiction could be erased to enable more creativity among Christ-followers. Many books that have strong Christian themes aren't in the Christian or religious sections of the bookstores; they hold their own as literature, as science fiction, as fantasy, and so forth. But as was previously said, those books stand out in our memories because there are far too few of them.

I would much rather read a science fiction book written by someone who follows Christ, than a Christian science fiction book. Because trust me, there is a difference...and I think we see that on our shelves today. Money and fitting into someone else's idea of excellence have taken the place of true excellence in writing, so we haven't challenged ourselves for something better (as I think [MENTION=4498]willow[/MENTION] pointed out). And you don't need to proselytize and club someone over the head to get your message across; in fact, a lighter touch at a powerful moment can do so much more.

I think there can be room for both, though, in the same way that there's room for say, DH Lawrence and Maeve Binchy or Phillip K. Dick and Jim Butcher. But when there's a weightier number of one to the other, I think we're missing the opportunity to "do good" as it were; or at the very least, the opportunity to prove that there's incalculable good compared to incalculable bad.

 

[Gaze]

I was in class tonight, so I missed much of this wonderful discussion. I'm like you, @GracieRuth - I'm excited to see it all discussed!

One thing I'd like to add, is that there are genres for all types of fiction but think the genre Christian fiction could be erased to enable more creativity among Christ-followers. Many books that have strong Christian themes aren't in the Christian or religious sections of the bookstores; they hold their own as literature, as science fiction, as fantasy, and so forth. But as was previously said, those books stand out in our memories because there are far too few of them.

I would much rather read a science fiction book written by someone who follows Christ, than a Christian science fiction book. Because trust me, there is a difference...and I think we see that on our shelves today. Money and fitting into someone else's idea of excellence have taken the place of true excellence in writing, so we haven't challenged ourselves for something better (as I think @willow pointed out). And you don't need to proselytize and club someone over the head to get your message across; in fact, a lighter touch at a powerful moment can do so much more.

I think there can be room for both, though, in the same way that there's room for say, DH Lawrence and Maeve Binchy or Phillip K. Dick and Jim Butcher. But when there's a weightier number of one to the other, I think we're missing the opportunity to "do good" as it were; or at the very least, the opportunity to prove that there's incalculable good compared to incalculable bad.

Agree. I think many would appreciate Christians writing good literature, as many here have already pointed out, than necessarily needing to read "Christian" literature. But again, unless someone is labored a "Christian" author (in terms of personal faith or belief), we probably wouldn't necessarily be able to identify them. So I'm sure there are tons of Christian author's who've been overlooked as good literary authors because they are not in the Christian section of the bookstore. So, maybe we need to learn more about the authors and then look at their works.

 

[arbygil]

Agree. I think many would appreciate Christians writing good literature, as many here have already pointed out, than necessarily needing to read "Christian" literature. But again, unless someone is labored a "Christian" author (in terms of personal faith or belief), we probably wouldn't necessarily be able to identify them. So I'm sure there are tons of Christian author's who've been overlooked as good literary authors because they are not in the Christian section of the bookstore. So, maybe we need to learn more about the authors and then look at their works.

*Nod.* Or better yet, authors who happen to be Christians get published, and they're good enough to compete with any novel on any shelves. I think we not only need to learn about other authors, but we also should also explore past our "known" genres. A lot of times if I read a good critical analysis of a piece I'll pick it up. I'll also check out the award winners and I'll visit interesting websites that have great discussions on new writers.

 

[invisible]

I agree, although I'd say it started much earlier, and that art itself made Nihilism and Atheist Existentialism part of the common culture. I'm most familiar with the musical world, where things have degraded to rhymed shouting of violent intentions in popular culture, to really ugly music in the classical world. G-d forbid anyone using a steady beat and a melody should be labeled avante guarde. It's pretty much the same philosophy in all the arts today, that life has no meaning and that "true" art is simply what shocks us. It's a very sad state of cultural decay.

although i am younger than you, i have had an interest in art and its history throughout my life, and i think art is more beautiful and diverse than ever. i see both a greater range of more accessible art, and a refinement of fine art. as far as i can tell this is a renaissance in which art forms are flourishing in astonishing ways from innovations in something as "low" as handicrafts right through to ballet, and forms are exchanging ideas across this spectrum in a way that makes me excited. there are perhaps many failures, but in a culture in which more art is produced, there must also be many more successes. i love to try to open my mind and experience different artistic products i might not naturally be comfortable with from the perspective of their creators and the people who are attracted to their value. i think that as society has become more equalised and less rigidly defined by gender or class that the range of subjectivities expressed has become astonishing. i am dazzled by the perspectives and at times i find myself getting very carried away. i certainly do not believe that art is obsessed with the meaninglessness of life, and i hope that what i wrote did not communicate that. i think art is very interested in generating and exploring alternative sources of meaning and truth. i find this beautiful and it fills me with joy.

 

[Gaze]

although i am younger than you, i have had an interest in art and its history throughout my life, and i think art is more beautiful and diverse than ever. i see both a greater range of more accessible art, and a refinement of fine art. as far as i can tell this is a renaissance in which art forms are flourishing in astonishing ways from innovations in something as "low" as handicrafts right through to ballet, and forms are exchanging ideas across this spectrum in a way that makes me excited. there are perhaps many failures, but in a culture in which more art is produced, there must also be many more successes. i love to try to open my mind and experience different artistic products i might not naturally be comfortable with from the perspective of their creators and the people who are attracted to their value. i think that as society has become more equalised and less rigidly defined by gender or class that the range of subjectivities expressed has become astonishing. i am dazzled by the perspectives and at times i find myself getting very carried away. i certainly do not believe that art is obsessed with the meaninglessness of life, and i hope that what i wrote did not communicate that. i think art is very interested in generating and exploring alternative sources of meaning and truth. i find this beautiful and it fills me with joy.

I do think the arts are more concerned with a sense of identity as being fleeting or surface rather than deeply ingrained. Identity is seen as more relaxed and fluid. This influences the themes and content of artistic products today. You'll find less "redemptive" literature being promoted. I think there is a underlying cynicism copped with some nihilism as far as themes in literature. This is why you'll find that it's less likely to find a novel or book "preaching" so to speak because there's a belief that we've taken life too seriously and should now relax our expectations, especially since there's less belief or concern with life after death. There is growth of apathy and fatalism as a theme in modern popular fiction, especially in scifi literature. Look at the increase in post-apocalyptic literature as well lately. There's is also greater focus on living for oneself in literature today compared to the themes of sacrificing oneself and life for the possibility of having a better existence (i.e. paradise) outside of this life. This means that it's less likely people will pick up books which focus on shaping oneself to live their lives in surface to a reality they feel doesn't really exist because it's not visible to the naked eye.

 

[invisible]

I do think the arts are more concerned with a sense of identity as being fleeting or surface rather than deeply ingrained. Identity is seen as more relaxed and fluid. This influences the themes and content of artistic products today. You'll find less "redemptive" literature being promoted. I think there is a underlying cynicism copped with some nihilism as far as themes in literature. This is why you'll find that it's less likely to find a novel or book "preaching" so to speak because there's a belief that we've taken life too seriously and should now relax our expectations, especially since there's less belief or concern with life after death. There is growth of apathy and fatalism as a theme in modern popular fiction, especially in scifi literature. Look at the increase in post-apocalyptic literature as well lately. There's is also greater focus on living for oneself in literature today compared to the themes of sacrificing oneself and life for the possibility of having a better existence (i.e. paradise) outside of this life. This means that it's less likely people will pick up books which focus on shaping oneself to live their lives in surface to a reality they feel doesn't really exist because it's not visible to the naked eye.

perhaps this mask approach to identity also carries with it the implication that identity relates more to a responsibility for actions in the world. books may preach less because centralised truth seems less certain but the fact that they preach less may be a sign of how seriously they take this aspect. apocalyptic literatures may provide a frame of reference for throwing into relief what is truly important, stripping humanity back to its essentials and finding what it can't do without even in the harshest conditions - a relationship with another human, for example. paradise is only one potential external good for which a self might be sacrificed; there might be many more that could be explored, such as sacrifice of the self for others, or towards some vaster intellectual or humanistic purpose. the struggle against selfishness seems heightened as self-sacrifice may provide no payoff into eternity for such actions. human limits and potentials are liberated from external constraint and conflicts abound. although there is not as much religion in art as previously, what we do may matter as much or more than ever: but with a focus on the here and now, rather than the hereafter. perhaps!

 

[magister343]

Time Changer is a truly terrible film. The message seems to be that we should only follow the Ten Commandments because they were given by Jesus (there is no mention of Moses), and that Christ's actual teachings such as loving thy neighbor consists of essentially meaningless social niceness if not done our of fear of being punished by a divine authority. It also completely ignores the multitude of ways in which 19th century was a time of moral turpitude worse than today, or the fact that society at that time was very much dominated by moderate "Christians" who just went through the motions due to social expectations. It is a poorly written piece of Evangelical fiction that does little but idolize a time before Evangelicalism as we know it existed, when Fundamentalism was just getting started but was considered very much a fringe movement.


It also kept bringing to mind Ecclesiastes 7:10: "Say not, 'Why were the former days better than these?' For it is not from wisdom that you ask this."

 

[willow]

Time Changer is a truly terrible film. The message seems to be that we should only follow the Ten Commandments because they were given by Jesus (there is no mention of Moses), and that Christ's actual teachings such as loving thy neighbor consists of essentially meaningless social niceness if not done our of fear of being punished by a divine authority. It also completely ignores the multitude of ways in which 19th century was a time of moral turpitude worse than today, or the fact that society at that time was very much dominated by moderate "Christians" who just went through the motions due to social expectations. It is a poorly written piece of Evangelical fiction that does little but idolize a time before Evangelicalism as we know it existed, when Fundamentalism was just getting started but was considered very much a fringe movement.


It also kept bringing to mind Ecclesiastes 7:10: "Say not, 'Why were the former days better than these?' For it is not from wisdom that you ask this."

I haven't seen the film but if it as you've described it then that is plainly not what the Bible teaches. Much of the "Christian" reading I've been coming across lately seems clearly designed to teach that the saints are justified by the law. The verse that keeps coming to my mind is this:

Amos 8:11

King James Version (KJV)

11Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

---------------

[video=youtube;NzBT39gx-TE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzBT39gx-TE&feature=player_profilepage#t=393s[/video]

 

[randomsomeone]

I myself am a huge fan of Christian non-fiction of the critical-historical type and, if only because of this and propelled by this, am also a fan of Christian creativity (literary or otherwise)...primarily when it is rooted/grounded authentically in the principles and traditions that emerge from non-fiction. I think this becomes the real power of the best Christian fiction...it is somehow rooted in a firm grasp of the Realities. The greater the grasp, the farther one can move creatively, and this with greater abandon.

Perhaps we live in a time in which there is a surfeit of Christian fantasy (culturally speaking) and too little Reality. Perhaps this is part of the problem.

 

[randomsomeone]

btw, for those who admire creativity, art, and narrative with strong Christian relevance, did you see the link for film "The Secret of Kells" in different thread? It's now on YouTube. A far more relelvant film that many could even imagine, imo.

 

[Sky Lark]

Forgive me for resurrecting such an old thread, but I love the topic, and it's highly pertinent to me as an author - and a Christian. This problem has bothered me for ~so~ long. I'm not an "evangelical" by any means (which term is often code for fundie); but I'm certainly no liberal, either, and I can't stand that a centuries-old legacy of beautiful "Christian literature" has now given way to commercial junk.

Even Christianity itself has become superficial in many churches, with the emphasis being on fitting the conservative or the liberal mold (depending on the church) rather than authentic relationship with God and growth in holiness. Many preachers seem to care as much about free market politics as about legitimate contemporary moral issues. Jesus only said, "Render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar." All of this disposes the average church-goer to mind the outside of the cup and the dish more than the inside, thus wanting little more than a reaffirmation of his/her values in fiction and other art.

However, I think part of the problem lies in the polarization that's allowed the extremists to take over on both sides of the "culture wars." (And to render both sides dangerously superficial in the process, while few even seem to notice or care.) EVERY side seems to write/produce primarily for their own special interest group. This is not true universally, but things are certainly heading in that direction. Like the echo chambers created by social media newsfeeds: every side subscribes to their own news and gets their own views constantly reaffirmed, convincing them that everyone else is just nuts or hopelessly malignant. But how is dialogue possible, anyway, if neither side will be fully honest (i.e., the Left refusing to acknowledge that some 95% of humans naturally reach out in some form to a higher power, and the Right steadfastly refusing to stop acting like space aliens)?

I've actually argued this point for a very long time; I know most Christian fiction is dross. Also, Christian fiction today is written for one audience: Christians. Authors want to write books that get published in bookstores, so they'll end up publishing weak sauce novels that don't upset the Christian constituency. You can't write a blatantly Christian book and expect it to be placed anywhere but the religious section of the bookstore - or in the Christian bookstores. Christian books are a genre like Harlequin romance books, and "you don't break genre" if you want to be published.
.

And WHY can't you write a blatantly Christian book anymore without it being automatically marginalized (if you're lucky enough to see it published at all, which is more often a pipe dream at this point)? Because our culture has become secularized to a ridiculous degree, with anti-Christian voices clamoring against freedom of religion to demand freedom from religion. I constantly face the problem of being too Christian for the secularists, and too...something (honest? human? feminist?)...for the fanatics. Just being me, it's very hard to get anywhere despite lay readers telling me for years and all throughout college that I should "send it in!" When I tell them I have, and the objections I received at the other end, they usually, sadly, say the same thing: Are we not allowed to just be honest anymore?

I refuse to act as if God doesn't exist, as if humans have no souls and no spiritual dimension or needs. I can't. This is simply not my experience, never has been, and never will be. Neither will I act as if humans are made to act, think, and feel like cartoons. We're not, and most of us don't. Never have, never will. We need a return to truth. (And yes, Truth - on every level. Though that's beyond the scope of this discussion, I do believe it to be the ultimate foundation. The cornerstone, if you will. The raving lunacy and superficiality of the present age notwithstanding, we're rotting out our own culture with the disingenuous nonsense that's replaced real art.) If we can learn to live in the truth again, maybe we can find the courage to be human once more.