What's your take on work or office politics?

Nighthawk said:
I admire people like you who can navigate that world and seem to enjoy doing so. I see it as a positive talent. One that I wish I had. It would definitely make my life easier.
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I am usually content to sit back and watch. However, management decided to mess with me and I decided it was time to be active. I think this is more an expression of my INTJ strength that I excel at being a steward. I can outquote anybody on rules and regs and really understand the negoitiated agreement. I find that the union work employes my ability to be strategic. The best advice I have is that you are halfway to winning the argument when you define the problem and then formulate your argument so that no matter what side they take it becomes a tactical advantage to you. I guess it is good that I have strong morals because an "evil" Sonya would be pretty scary.

I am pretty sure that you navigate the world pretty well Nighthawk, and there is nothing wrong with not wanting to be management. A Manager's main job isn't to oversee the work but the workers. Unless someone is new, most employees know how to do their job. If you don't have strong people skills or a desire to interact with people you won't be a good manager. Perhaps that is why you don't see those who get promoted as being productive. Managing personalities is a subtle art, while not productive in the most widely understand meaning (generating a product or revenue), it does contribute to the success of any organization. We humans have many quirks and throw us all together with deadlines and task--watch out for the fireworks.
 
corndogman said:
I dont see you as having done anything wrong. You have been true to yourself. It seems like I offended you somehow. I appologize.
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Oh no ... no offense at all. Just exploring different angles of it all. Sorry if I came across that way. My style can be a bit blunt. I need to work on that.
 
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Sonyab said:
I am pretty sure that you navigate the world pretty well Nighthawk, and there is nothing wrong with not wanting to be management. A Manager's main job isn't to oversee the work but the workers. Unless someone is new, most employees know how to do their job. If you don't have strong people skills or a desire to interact with people you won't be a good manager. Perhaps that is why you don't see those who get promoted as being productive. Managing personalities is a subtle art, while not productive in the most widely understand meaning (generating a product or revenue), it does contribute to the success of any organization. We humans have many quirks and throw us all together with deadlines and task--watch out for the fireworks.
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I guess I do come down on management too hard sometimes. I will readily admit that good managers are worth their weight in gold. We've got a really good one where I work and I dread the day he gets fed up and leaves. He is our strongest advocate and really makes our workdays more pleasant and productive. He communicates very well up and down the chain too. That counts for a lot.

I was in management for about 10 years throughout my 20s. I did ok and learned a lot. My style could best be termed as collaborative management and consensus building ... although it was an authoritarian organization (military). I wasn't a natural, but I worked hard at it. What I was probably best at was finding the best fits in terms of people for the myriad of jobs in my organization. What surprised me however is how much it burned me out. Every morning when I came in, I was faced with a line of people outside my office with complaints or requests about something. Navigating through that took hours, and not everybody could be sent away satisfied or happpy. Not much time to explore, practice or hone my military craft. As I rose up in the ranks, it became even worse for me ... more and more meetings, administrative overhead, and personnel issues. Soon it took up most of every day. I didn't have the temperament to go on with that ... although I do admire the people who can. When I had the chance to segue to another career, I took it and have been happier since.

The tongue in cheek digs I took at the non-producers at my place of work are guys who neither manage or produce. They have manager/director titles, but do very little in the way of what I perceive as effective management. I suppose there is deadwood in every organization. It kind of irks me though when I see people who want the title, prestige and perks without trying to provide the diligence, care and thought that are needed in those positions. Management is hard work, and I admire those who do it effectively. I guess temperament does tell ... an ESTJ would probably have a much better preference for this type of work than an INTP.
 
office politics are particularly nasty but i think unless you learn to navigate them and become more flexible in your approach you'll be stuck at the lower rungs for most of your career, as others move on ahead of you. i quit my last job partly because i couldn't stand the vitriolic environment generated there by insidious political battles... but in hindsight i probably should've just adapted.
 
I wish I could just screw with all those people to trick them into giving me a job with nothing hard to do but lots of pay. I think very little of the people who engage in that crap and don't feel bad taking some advantage of the situation.
 
The biggest problem I've had with office politics is my INFJ-ness. Two things create trouble for me:
1) The desire to satisfy everyone all of the time
2) My ability to pick out the manipulators quickly.

The first is bad for obvious reasons. The second is bad because most of politics consists of working around and through manipulators. Ignoring them never works. I CAN'T STAND manipulators, and I usually call them on it right away. I usually ask them to state their motivations directly. They then make me an enemy and I lose, because, well, they manipulate everyone around them.

In the future, I'm going to try to have to find a different way of responding to my INFJ esp when I spot a manipulator. (ie, an evil ENXJ, not to be confused with the usual better ENXJ)

I think what I am looking for is one of those special workplaces where being up front is built in to the corporate culture. But I think it is not a common thing. Probably one not focused on the T-debate strategy, but one based on the F-teamwork approach.
 
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Bureaucracy can go to hell.

Some guys at work eat it up. But I have seen it often used as a reason to justify oneself having a job when there isn't any real clear indicator as to why that person has a job.
 
I despise non-profit organization politics. This is an area I have experience in.
 
It's the game son. Ppl gots ta like you and respect you in order for you to get influence to get what you want. Although unethical ppl piss me off, personally.
 
Office politics really bug me. Partly because I see right through them, and no one else does. And in my opinion, in most work places they are more unnecessary then a raincoat parka in the Sahara. And that's unnecessary.
 
slant said:
I despise non-profit organization politics. This is an area I have experience in.
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Tell me about it. Politics are a major part of my workplace. We are a very large non profit organisation. Lots of short term contracts and promotion opportunities. It can be quite cut throat at times. There are certain people who are just slimy butt sucking brown noses but are well respected among the senior management. It makes me sick when one of them just agrees with whatever her boss says regardless of how ridiculous it is.

The thing is it works though. We work closely with councillors, neighbourhood managers, the mayor etc so there is big potential to advance your career if you suck up to the right person.

I still refuse to participate though. I lust won't lower myself to that level
 
When I think of healthy workplace politics I think of "Sam" the Sheepdog and "Ralph" the Coyote - Looney Tunes characters.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYYiNi948V4"]YouTube - Sam Sheepdog & Ralph Wolf - A Sheep In The Deep[/ame]

They greet each other casually as they both clock in and then they proceed to spend their workday trying to get the better of each other. Then they clock out at the end and say their good nights.
 
^^^ :m131:
 
slant said:
I despise non-profit organization politics. This is an area I have experience in.
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Pff, I'm in a POLITICAL non-profit organization. Our politics are very friendly, actually... much humor, dogs begging for cake (today anyways), people talking about games and space aliens and the commute to work. 10 years and ne'er much to complain about.
 
~jet said:
Pff, I'm in a POLITICAL non-profit organization. Our politics are very friendly, actually... much humor, dogs begging for cake (today anyways), people talking about games and space aliens and the commute to work. 10 years and ne'er much to complain about.
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Well I'm sure they're not all addicts in recovery >.>
That would make your life a lot harder, buddy.
 
slant said:
Well I'm sure they're not all addicts in recovery >.>
That would make your life a lot harder, buddy.
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were all addicts to something
 
Barnabas said:
were all addicts to something
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However, addictions do not make everyone mentally unstable and irreversibly change the brain chemistry of a user.

I think of all addicts, those who have been addicted to substances are by far the hardest to deal with because they have been physically and psychologically changed by the chemicals that hindered development of certain areas of their brains and such.

Doing drugs can cause/lead people to do reckless things, and if you look, a lot of crimes that are committed are done so while under the influence of a substance. This, to me, makes people who are in RECOVERY from such nonsense some of the hardest addicts to deal with, and even if everyone is addicted to something, working with people addicted to chocolate in a political organization completely differs from those addicted to crack.
 
slant said:
However, addictions do not make everyone mentally unstable and irreversibly change the brain chemistry of a user.

I think of all addicts, those who have been addicted to substances are by far the hardest to deal with because they have been physically and psychologically changed by the chemicals that hindered development of certain areas of their brains and such.

Doing drugs can cause/lead people to do reckless things, and if you look, a lot of crimes that are committed are done so while under the influence of a substance. This, to me, makes people who are in RECOVERY from such nonsense some of the hardest addicts to deal with, and even if everyone is addicted to something, working with people addicted to chocolate in a political organization completely differs from those addicted to crack.
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That's debatable, your speaking from personal experience. While is may appear that a person in recovery from an addiction to crack may be(and likely is) more unruly then a person addicted to chocolate, it depends on the level of addiction. chocolate releases endorphins from your brain, what if you became addicted to that release, what if it had an unusual effect and caused a massive dump of endorphins which led to a severe emotional crash afterwards.


There are plenty of ways to chemically mess with your head, drugs aren't always necessary nor are they the only factors.


Not to say your experiences are invalid, simply that they are limited.
 
Barnabas said:
That's debatable, your speaking from personal experience. While is may appear that a person in recovery from an addiction to crack may be(and likely is) more unruly then a person addicted to chocolate, it depends on the level of addiction. chocolate releases endorphins from your brain, what if you became addicted to that release, what if it had an unusual effect and caused a massive dump of endorphins which led to a severe emotional crash afterwards.


There are plenty of ways to chemically mess with your head, drugs aren't always necessary nor are they the only factors.


Not to say your experiences are invalid, simply that they are limited.
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I would say comparably, the effects of chocolate and acid on the brain are remarkably different, acid being the more extreme of the two.
 
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