Which Feeler type is the least feel-y

[ClevelandINTP]

Would low health levels be a good messiness proxy?

I think I see what you’re saying, and yes, possibly

What health levels are you thinking like mental health, physical fitness?

 

[Krypton]

I think I see what you’re saying, and yes, possibly

What health levels are you thinking like mental health, physical fitness?

I was thinking about Enneagram health levels, as described here: https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/levels-of-development

If you click around you'll find what individual enneatypes are like at low health, average health, and high health.

 

[philostam]

In fact, I would say that INTPs are so misunderstood when it comes to emotionality. They're so sensitive that they just do not know how to deal with it all and need to actively avoid emotional stimuli in order to avoid becoming overwhelmed. The INTPs biggest problem is an extremely high sensitivity level coupled with an extremely low emotional coping, which is probably why they're the most dissatisfied with their jobs and most likely to get into drugs and alcohol in tertiary education - a top spot shared with INFPs.

To me, INFPs and INTPs are very alike in terms of how they mirror each other: one is the literature nerd, the other the science nerd - the same level of sensitivity coped with by opposite means.

This is spot. on. I just had a job interview today, and while I was not anxious at all about talking with HR and the interviewers, I observed how senstitve I was to the environment and co-workers. The problem with INTP's is also demon Fi (cannot really distignguish what you are feeling) and child Si that is very sensitive to the "atmosphere" of the environment. You are just bombarded with this new sensations and people and atmosphere, so it's very hard for me to process it on the spot (7th Se). As a result I feel very fragile and part of me just want to escape to process everything.

 

[Ren]

This is spot. on. I just had a job interview today, and while I was not anxious at all about talking with HR and the interviewers, I observed how senstitve I was to the environment and co-workers. The problem with INTP's is also demon Fi (cannot really distignguish what you are feeling) and child Si that is very sensitive to the "atmosphere" of the environment. You are just bombarded with this new sensations and people and atmosphere, so it's very hard for me to process it on the spot (7th Se). As a result I feel very fragile and part of me just want to escape to process everything.

This feels very familiar. Perhaps I am an INTP after all

 

[philostam]

Perhaps INFJs have the same problem (with their not-exactly strong Se). But in theory I would say they *should* handle it slightly better. But I also think it's beyond typology. It's about your neuroticism levels, I'd say. You might be a slightly more neurotic INFJ.

So Deleted member 16771 might be up to something with his list.

 

[Asa]

Intensity
Degree in which one relies on and or is sensitive to feelings and or emotions. Depth and breadth is fine as a proxy

Messiness
Degree in which one expresses and creates "drama." I do think messiness could be a function of an individual's temperament and maturity; however, I am speculating that preference for cognitive functions influence results

This is a solid way to categorize type for the purpose of the exercise. As others have noted, "messiness" may not be the best descriptor but it may set messy people off, which is a bit funny.
Perhaps a word along the lines of projection, exhibit, display... may be better.

I agree that type and function health and maturity (not necessarily maturity of age) influence messiness. A Feeler is more emotional but because emotion is at their core they typically have more emotional maturity and emotional intelligence than a Thinker who will have less experience in emotional growth. When Thinkers get emotional they are often "messier" than Feelers.

Something middle-aged and senior women discuss behind closed doors (when no men are around) is how "moody" men are. During my early 40s I knew over ten couples who separated and the primary cause, according to the women confiding in me, was the emotional volatility of the male. (This volatility can manifest in ways that scare women and create stressful environments.) At that age fewer men have tapped into developing their emotional maps and are not emotionally mature simply because our society expects men to be "unemotional". Women, including Thinkers, are more likely to be more emotionally mature at that age because our society expects women to communicate through emotion. So, while women are more likely to react with a surface emotion (shed a tear during a movie, squee at something cute) or approach the problem from an emotional angle, men are more likely to be emotionally volatile because they haven't developed that function or an emotional language. I don't particularly like dividing people by gender, but this is a consistent issue that is discussed among older women. Barring mental health issues, perhaps the people who are more emotional during younger decades are the people who will eventually be least emotionally volatile in later decades.

Someone looking for a relationship with less emotional drama may want to watch out for sensitivity (how likely it is for a person to become emotional) and volatility (messiness/ how they react). This may have more to do with personal development of the functions, emotional and type maturity, and type health (whether or not they are in shadow mode or in the grip) than where on the scale the specific type is.

 

[ClevelandINTP]

I can answer that in so many ways about dude volatility. I don’t think people will like the answer though

 

[Ren]

Perhaps INFJs have the same problem (with their not-exactly strong Se). But in theory I would say they *should* handle it slightly better. But I also think it's beyond typology. It's about your neuroticism levels, I'd say. You might be a slightly more neurotic INFJ.

So Deleted member 16771 might be up to something with his list.

Yes, your hit the nail on the head: I usually score pretty high on neuroticism levels.

 

[Impact Character]

As others have noted, "messiness" may not be the best descriptor but it may set messy people off, which is a bit funny.

I see that coming, too.

----

Anyhow it has been mentioned before as well that the term feeling has been in an on/off relation with MBTI, and conceptionally confused with some other aspects. There is just so much more in the term messiness that could unfold into a couple of other hidden but useful parameters for another system. Like it is done now and dipped in (health, maturity, stability, neurotism, turbulent or assertive temperament etc..).

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Could probably take Hos' depth/breadth data and index it and combine it with and index of ennegram type prevalence

For example, % of types that end up in more "dramatic" or "expressive" enneagrams like 4 and 7

That'd solve it in my mind for now

It's about your neuroticism levels, I'd say.

Philostam already mentioned it, but I was going to suggest the Big 5 dimension of neuroticism. If there are any crossover data, it would be useful to try to correlate, otherwise analyse what it means in Big 5 by the descriptions and try to determine the equivalent cognitive function.

If I had to guess, I would say that neuroticism is correlated with Fi and Si.

 

[philostam]

I would say Fi and Ti. Given that on average P types are more neurotic (SP perhaps more prone to anger, NP more prone to sadness). So it's something about introverted judging function combined with extraverted percieving function. That is, if we are gonna search for correlation. I think it's more complicated than that.

I can only judge and examine for myself, but one of the reasons for my neuroticism (it's not terribly high, like 65 percentile) is that I enjoy self pity. When something bad happens, my brain naturally goes to the bad pessimistic scenarios, and it's hard to stop it. Also, because I take pride in searching for objective truth, I'm sometimes too "objective" with myself. That's a very interesting thing. For example, take teenage basketball players. It's a fact that >0.01% will it make to the NBA, yet if you ask them on the street, I'd guess at least 30% would say *they* will make it. You can call it faith or wilful blindness, but this kind of thinking definitely reduces neuroticism (because it gives you optimism).

So optimism and faith are the two things that keep my neuroticism in check. Pessimism and thinking too objectively about myself gives it fuel.

 

[ClevelandINTP]

optimism is a thing there's always a possibility for something

irony of the intp, and i suspect others, is we sometimes latch on to few things that can go wrong rather than having hope and willfully striving for the inverse which is also possible

 

[philostam]

Well said. But that's a bad trait. INP are terrible with chaos and uncertainty, I really want to improve that more than anything.

Imagine having cancer and like 40% chance of beating it. Being a pessimist will not only reduce your chances, but also make you miserable and depressed as hell while you're waiting. I really admire everyone who keeps their cool in that kind of situation.

 

[ClevelandINTP]

yeah, a trick is knowing what to care about and what not to care about. that and never fully latch onto to a certain future--leave yourself open to possibilities, and embrace the pivot

selective caring and rejecting negativity is liberating

hard to do if you're an intp as we have an innate knack for finding the holes and bullshit in things. flip that on it's head, and when you see a hole, fill it up instead of pointing it out. every downside has an inverse positive within it. truly a gift that intps can see the holes if you think about it

 

[ClevelandINTP]

oh, and the past didn't happen

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Still playing with this data a bit, asking tangentially related questions for now and hopefully more profound later...

In any event, I did a similar type of analysis to determine which MBTI type is the most introverted extrovert. I started using similar logic, and looked for which enneagrams are more representative of introverted types. 5 out of the 9 enneagrams for introverts make up just over 80% of all introverts: 1, 4, 5, 6 and 9

What's interesting is the proportion of these enneagrams that represent the whole are fairly balanced, so it's harder to narrow the focus to just two per se. However, enneagrams 1 and 6 have some linkage in my opinion as they relate more to duty and being loyal, and they happen to be the lowest % of the top 5 "introverted" enneagrams

So, if we look at just types 4, 5 and 9 assuming these are the most introverted of introverted enneagram types, ENFP and ENTP would be considered the most introverted types with ENTP being the more balanced of the two (ENFPs are heavily concentrated in type 4 relative to other extroverts)

Type 5 is the strongest "introverted" enneagram if you were wondering

Enjoy!

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Another interesting view of the data is the relative prevalence of the top MBTI type representative of each enneagram. Would be interesting to overlay a "quality" measure over the quantity one to derive a "best-in-class" of sorts. Looks like the biggest opportunity for market share is in Type 3. Time to take down those ENTJs. Which ironically shouldn’t be hard looking at their strengths which are types 3 and 8. It’s almost like they get shit done but have others do it. Gross

 

[ClevelandINTP]

Types four and five are intuitive-dominant

 

[bcrwz]

me

 

[ClevelandINTP]

me

You