Which Feeler type is the least feel-y

[Deleted member 16771]

The proposal that Sensors are less sensitive than Intuitives is what I don't agree with, but my basis for this is purely through interactions with other humans.

Is this partly because it feels to you like a dehumanising thing to say?

I think Sensors with Feeling at or near the top of their stacks are more sensitive than most Intuitives, who have Ni or Ne at or near the top of their stacks. Ni/Ne block the sensitivity. It is a mind function, while feeling is a "heart" function. Those with feeling first on their stacks have nothing to block the feeling, wether that feeling is breadth or depth, and those who interact with the world as Sensors are more likely to be bigger feelers.

The way I'm looking at it sees the coping mechanism or 'affect'/expression as immaterial, and the level of feeling as paramount.

Otherwise we'd have to say that the super-sensitive INTP is ineed the 'warmest robot'; unfeeling and strictly rational.

I also notice that Thinkers with undeveloped feeling tend to hang onto feelings and hold grudges longer (depth) and be more emotionally volatile (breadth) when something does make them emotional than Feelers are, even if Feelers approach the world with more feeling in general.

This sounds right, but I haven't run it through my personal experiences yet, so I'm not sure.

 

[Asa]

Is this partly because it feels to you like a dehumanising thing to say?

No.

It is illogical (to me) that Sensors would be less SENSEtive, and personal observation shows me that some of them are more so. The list you made seems inaccurate for that reason. I'd place some of those Sensors higher in the Feels department. For example, Extroverted Feeling is the FIRST function for ESFJs, yet they are near the bottom of the list. (BTW, my mother was an ESFJ and that experience tells me there is no way they are near the bottom.) I'd also place ISFPs at #2, right below INFP because even if they don't have the depth of feeling that INFPs have, they are unsaturated, billowy, feelers. Feeling is first on their stacks, too.

Intuition also acts as a barrier for feelings in those who have it above their feeling function. INFPs have feeling first on their stacks. They have both depth and breadth, and even though they have Ne, the Ne is after Fi, so it doesn't block Fi, which is what makes them #1.

This sounds right, but I haven't run it through my personal experiences yet, so I'm not sure.

What do you mean you have no experience with this? Not to make you self-conscious, but I've watched you have experience with this in your forum posts in recent weeks.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

What do you mean you have no experience with this? Not to make you self-conscious, but I've watched you have experience with this in your forum posts in recent weeks.

I mean I haven't tested it against every thinker I know.

P.S. I'll get back to this later. Agree about ESFJs, though.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Here's an example of a popular-ish INFJ: Sam Harris

His expression, mannerisms, and style are classic INFJ - kind of a formal/calm vibe and contentwise likes to talk about "heady" subjects in a non-jargon type way. Not very "feel-y" to me compared to other feeler types.

Sam is INTJ.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

No way S. Harris is INTJ. His work is all about cultural values and ethics.

Very INTJ. INFJs don't have to codify their principles, they just 'feel them'. By contrast, Te-Fi revels in it.

He's not argumentative and "debunking" in his proposals, either, the way INTJ would be.

Oh he is, he just happens to be mature. He dismantled Jordan Peterson with rigorous logic.

He's constantly trying to "level" with his audiences and guests. Even in debates, if you ever seen him in debates. He's Extraverted feeling in his debate style. His "new atheist" contemporary, Christopher Hitchens, is INTJ. There's a huge difference in their work and expression. Hitchens=cold, terse, and prone to "defeating" his debate opponents with the notorious "hitchslap". When Sam Harris kills a debate he does it "nicely", usually providing a response laden with double entandre and wit, causing the opponent to look stupid but not offended or belittled. Thats Fe response, soft, witty, and a bit befuddling. Te just lays down the hammer.

That's not Fe. Fe would attempt to build consensus rather than dismantle his opponent's system.

I think you have a bit of a stereotyped view of INTJs, probably from INTJs still in the 'young man phase' who haven't connected with their Fi, or mistyped TPs (who are much more personally attached to their ideas).

 

[Ren]

Many people do seem to believe that Sam Harris is INFJ, but personally I don't see it. I don't see much Fe use in his interviews.

Peterson is more contrarian in appearance but he clearly uses Fe. I find Harris rather cold and clinical in his approach actually, underneath his soft-spoken and respectful demeanor.

There is something a little too 'clean-cut' about him for him to be INFJ lolol

 

[Wyote]

Many people do seem to believe that Sam Harris is INFJ, but personally I don't see it. I don't see much Fe use in his interviews.

Peterson is more contrarian in appearance but he clearly uses Fe. I find Harris rather cold and clinical in his approach actually, underneath his soft-spoken and respectful demeanor.

There is something a little too 'clean-cut' about him for him to be INFJ lolol

yes

 

[Wyote]

'The most useless of men'

This got buried pretty quick, but just a note here because I think the part about Ni doms being "inconsolable" when their plans don't go accordingly is a very important piece and one which may help those trying to figure out their own type.

Nothing will get us out of those moments except ourselves.
INTJs really just need solid alone time though, whereas INFJs just need some alone time to collect a sort of plan of healing, going to others for help when ready. INTJs won't really go to others for help in that way, but they will engage in helpful activities. It's a subtle difference.

 

[Ren]

Most Feely
1. INFP
2. INTP
3. INFJ
4. INTJ
5. ENFP
6. ENTP
7. ENFJ
8. ENTJ
9. ISFP
10. ISTP
11. ISFJ
12. ISTJ
13. ESFP
14. ESTP
15. ESFJ
16. ESTJ
Least Feely

I find this ranking fascinating, but it must be admitted that one of its weaknesses is that it makes little intuitive sense. Not that common sense is always right, of course.

While I am enjoying the discussion and I enjoyed @Ren's video about the topic, I don't necessarily agree. The concept of depth and breadth is interesting and likable. The proposal that Sensors are less sensitive than Intuitives is what I don't agree with, but my basis for this is purely through interactions with other humans. I don't think personal experiences offer reliable data unless those personal experiences are collected from a pool of the population.

I think Sensors with Feeling at or near the top of their stacks are more sensitive than most Intuitives, who have Ni or Ne at or near the top of their stacks. Ni/Ne block the sensitivity. It is a mind function, while feeling is a "heart" function. Those with feeling first on their stacks have nothing to block the feeling, whether that feeling is breadth or depth, and those who interact with the world as Sensors are more likely to be bigger feelers.

I also notice that Thinkers with undeveloped feeling tend to hang onto feelings and hold grudges longer (depth) and be more emotionally volatile (breadth) when something does make them emotional than Feelers are, even if Feelers approach the world with more feeling in general.

I think the breadth/depth distinction may work well in respect to a certain definition of sensitivity, but I don't think it is the definition you're operating with in your post, which I suspect of including affect — whereas the former one doesn't. (I don't know if affect is the right word; it is in French anyway. ) For example, everything that my dad (ENFJ) does seems permeated with affect, he is incredibly expressive in a way that suggests Fe-dominance. By comparison I seem far 'colder' at first, but I'm pretty sure I'm a lot more sensitive than he is. This would in fact apply to pretty much all the ExFJs I know.

 

[Ren]

Here is an interview of a French demographer and historian called Emmanuel Todd, who has also done work in sociology and political science. He happens to speak English fluently so you can all watch the interview.

He is a clear INFJ — and I believe an INFJ Type 5. Compare the way he is/talks to Sam Harris and I think you'll intuitively see the difference between Fe/Ti and Te/Fi:

 

[Wyote]

Here is an interview of a French demographer and historian called Emmanuel Todd, who has also done work in sociology and political science. He happens to speak English fluently so you can all watch the interview.

He is a clear INFJ — and I believe an INFJ Type 5. Compare the way he is/talks to Sam Harris and I think you'll intuitively see the difference between Fe/Ti and Te/Fi:

First 30sec: Oh yea das an INFJ right there lmao

As it goes on you can tell his range in emotional expression and storytelling type of processing. Great stuff.

 

[Ren]

First 30sec: Oh yea das an INFJ right there lmao

As it goes on you can tell his range in emotional expression and storytelling type of processing. Great stuff.

Yeah he's great One of the few 'public intellectuals' that's worth following in France, to be honest.

He has a clear Fe warmth that I find very endearing, and like you said, he's quite emotionally expressive and loves storytelling.

 

[Ren]

@Wyote — Funny anecdote about Todd:

Back when he lived in Paris, my brother had a friend who was doing some work/for with Todd at the time. One afternoon he ran into Todd in the street. "Emmanuel!" my brother's friend said. "You're wearing your sweater inside out!" "Woops, that's true" said Todd

 

[Infjente]

Here is an interview of a French demographer and historian called Emmanuel Todd, who has also done work in sociology and political science. He happens to speak English fluently so you can all watch the interview.

He is a clear INFJ — and I believe an INFJ Type 5. Compare the way he is/talks to Sam Harris and I think you'll intuitively see the difference between Fe/Ti and Te/Fi:

I would intuitively say this guy is Si-Te-Fi-Ne. I can see why he could be type 5, but I don't see Ni, Fe, or Se (Ti or Te, I can't say). What makes him a clear INFJ to you? Sam Harris could fool me into thinking he was INFJ, but I can't see it with this guy.

 

[Ren]

I would intuitively say this guy is Si-Te-Fi-Ne.

Wat? ISTJ, really? Gimme what you're smoking right now

I think the only type that he also reminds me of (a bit) is INTP. He has a very obvious Fe presence, with the little anecdotes/jokes, the emotional diversity of his facial expressions, etc.

Explaining how Ni is visible in words is more difficult in general but it comes across in his interest in prospective research. He loves trying to predict 'what will happen' in various contexts and countries (using anthropological models mostly).

 

[Milktoast Bandit]

Here is an interview of a French demographer and historian called Emmanuel Todd, who has also done work in sociology and political science. He happens to speak English fluently so you can all watch the interview.

He is a clear INFJ — and I believe an INFJ Type 5. Compare the way he is/talks to Sam Harris and I think you'll intuitively see the difference between Fe/Ti and Te/Fi:

I really appreciate his right-hand dominance.

 

[Ren]

I really appreciate his right-hand dominance.

It is certainly very striking

But note the almost complete absence of variation of in his movements... Se-inferior spotted

 

[Infjente]

Wat? ISTJ, really? Gimme what you're smoking right now

Marlboro

Actually, on a second intuitive thought he could be ISFJ. Definitely Si-dom!

I think the only type that he also reminds me of (a bit) is INTP. He has a very obvious Fe presence, with the little anecdotes/jokes, the emotional diversity of his facial expressions, etc.

I've seen ISTJs do this, they're not all robots you know. In my experience, they can absolutely come across like this guy. Even be warm and expressional (especially that smile he's trying to hold back at times) when they're interacting with others.

He loves trying to predict 'what will happen' in various contexts and countries (using anthropological models mostly).

He's using the history of concrete information to predict the future. Isn't that the definition of Si?

 

[Milktoast Bandit]

But note the almost complete absence of variation

It was definitely noted!

 

[Ren]

He's using the history of concrete information to predict the future. Isn't that the definition of Si?

No, more the definition of a multifaceted historian.

Actually, on a second intuitive thought he could be ISFJ. Definitely Si-dom!

Well well, according to you I might be Si-dom myself, so.... (interestingly I've been compared to Todd by some French friends)