Why is INFJ the rarest type?

[MoonFlier]

INFJ: I'm not giving you idiots the keys back.

That's what got them into trouble in the first place. Sales & Marketing playing with the heavy equipment again.

 

[Misty]

I'd rather not have the problems than have the character.

INFJ: Hey y'all better look at what's coming up behind you.
Everyone else: We're fine, that's not a problem
INFJ: You sure you don't just want to give that a second look?
EE: No. Sit down and stay out of this.
INFJ: But...
EE: Stop.
INFJ: sigh

*steamroller starts to decimate the project*

EE: Run away! Run away! Save yourselves!
INFJ: Fine. I got this.

*takes keys out of steamroller*

EE: Wow, you really handled that back there.

*two days later*

EE: It's all the INFJ's fault.​

Lol^

Indeed trauma isn't exactly my favourite experience either. But the things I have endured have equipped me with the tools I wouldn't have even known how to use otherwise and allowed me to see and appreciate life like never before. I'm glad not to be the rough stone I started out as. <3

 

[Vendrah]

Guys, about the "INFJs are rare because they are neurotic", "INFJ is a trauma type, every INFJ is traumatized", etc... These are actually false.

If we take Neuroticism as a parameter, the most neurotic type is pointed slightly on ISFP on statistics:

There are no proper reason to think that it is INFJ, and in significant terms (the correlations for Neuroticism and each ISFP dichotomy separately are very low and near zero, although if we combine everything it might get quite significant).

The personality disorders is a thing that is too controversial (due to Narcissistic, Antisocial and Sadistic) and because of that I don't want to enter in details, so it will be more of my word here: In general terms, INFJ/ENFJ are generally the least with personality disorders. When combined with Enneagram 9, INFJ 9 & ENFJ 9, are the enneagram/mbti combos with the least relationship with any personality disorders, actually I can relate almost all combos to a PD, but not any for INFJ/ENFJ 9. Also, 9s has the highest emotional stability on the enneagram as well, and Js 9s are less prone to sloth (significantly). So, "INFJs are a trauma type/always unhealthy/etc...", well, that is definitely false at least by some self-report statistics.

The personality disorder most is still Schizotypal (which is a thing for INs), INTP is mostly related to "being odd/eccentric" while INFJ is more related to "magical beliefs" (in conceptual terms, because I never saw numbers with separated factors), but even though it doesn't run that high for INFJ: Definitely the minority are Schizotypal or have the super odd magical surrealistic beliefs, but it is a real thing and an actual unhealthy mark for INFJ type. But we know that we had some here on the forum who were quite of a show (I remember very cloudly the conspirator of the gas station now).

Now, the hypothesis that INFJs are rare due to being Se-tards... Well, that could be real but unlikely for some reasons. First, that should be true to INTJs as well, I don't see much reasons to be for a less extent to INTJs, however INTJ is not that rare (its 3.5% INTJs vs 2% INFJs in my world estimate... even though on US its about the same) and still prone to the same thing.

The idea that INFJs are the least adaptable type (or directly inferior - I already saw that variant) is somewhat problematic because it depends on what you understand as successful or adaptable type. INFJ is not the dumbest type; Although INFJ is more poor than average, ENTJ is one of the richest on the US yet is the rarest on US as well. So, this route doesn't really lead to much justifications.

Although this is quite mysticism from my part, there is still a possibility that, if we start to speculate on religions and looking across any religions, that there are sort of "different earths", "different planes", whatever variation you know/or believe, and there is still the possibility that some types of people are "sent" "less often" to Earth, and that could justify some under-representations or over-representations. Due to the flaws I had explored on the system so far, some types rarity can be explained based on them (like ENTJ and ENFJ), some others don't. But it could be still a very complex matter of purely adaptation, and there is the very cloud link to genetics where you may find a lot of people claiming that relates to genetics, some studies may pointing out at least some relationship, without pointing any kind of details that helps on this subject. Anyway, it is a quite interesting subject.

 

[Misty]

Guys, about the "INFJs are rare because they are neurotic", "INFJ is a trauma type, every INFJ is traumatized", etc... These are actually false.

If we take Neuroticism as a parameter, the most neurotic type is pointed slightly on ISFP on statistics:

There are no proper reason to think that it is INFJ, and in significant terms (the correlations for Neuroticism and each ISFP dichotomy separately are very low and near zero, although if we combine everything it might get quite significant).

The personality disorders is a thing that is too controversial (due to Narcissistic, Antisocial and Sadistic) and because of that I don't want to enter in details, so it will be more of my word here: In general terms, INFJ/ENFJ are generally the least with personality disorders. When combined with Enneagram 9, INFJ 9 & ENFJ 9, are the enneagram/mbti combos with the least relationship with any personality disorders, actually I can relate almost all combos to a PD, but not any for INFJ/ENFJ 9. Also, 9s has the highest emotional stability on the enneagram as well, and Js 9s are less prone to sloth (significantly). So, "INFJs are a trauma type/always unhealthy/etc...", well, that is definitely false at least by some self-report statistics.

The personality disorder most is still Schizotypal (which is a thing for INs), INTP is mostly related to "being odd/eccentric" while INFJ is more related to "magical beliefs" (in conceptual terms, because I never saw numbers with separated factors), but even though it doesn't run that high for INFJ: Definitely the minority are Schizotypal or have the super odd magical surrealistic beliefs, but it is a real thing and an actual unhealthy mark for INFJ type. But we know that we had some here on the forum who were quite of a show (I remember very cloudly the conspirator of the gas station now).

Now, the hypothesis that INFJs are rare due to being Se-tards... Well, that could be real but unlikely for some reasons. First, that should be true to INTJs as well, I don't see much reasons to be for a less extent to INTJs, however INTJ is not that rare (its 3.5% INTJs vs 2% INFJs in my world estimate... even though on US its about the same) and still prone to the same thing.

The idea that INFJs are the least adaptable type (or directly inferior - I already saw that variant) is somewhat problematic because it depends on what you understand as successful or adaptable type. INFJ is not the dumbest type; Although INFJ is more poor than average, ENTJ is one of the richest on the US yet is the rarest on US as well. So, this route doesn't really lead to much justifications.

Although this is quite mysticism from my part, there is still a possibility that, if we start to speculate on religions and looking across any religions, that there are sort of "different earths", "different planes", whatever variation you know/or believe, and there is still the possibility that some types of people are "sent" "less often" to Earth, and that could justify some under-representations or over-representations. Due to the flaws I had explored on the system so far, some types rarity can be explained based on them (like ENTJ and ENFJ), some others don't. But it could be still a very complex matter of purely adaptation, and there is the very cloud link to genetics where you may find a lot of people claiming that relates to genetics, some studies may pointing out at least some relationship, without pointing any kind of details that helps on this subject. Anyway, it is a quite interesting subject.

What about the 4s?? Tons of INFJ are 4s and many ENFJs are 2s. I'm a 4. 4's can be neurotic as hell. Also.. neurosis isn't a personality disorder. There are other issues that INFJs are prone to, psychologically speaking, such as anxiety & PTSD, which don't fall at all in the nasty cluster B disorders you mentioned here.

 

[Wyote]

What about the 4s?? Tons of INFJ are 4s and many ENFJs are 2s. I'm a 4. 4's can be neurotic as hell. Also.. neurosis isn't a personality disorder. There are other issues that INFJs are prone to, psychologically speaking, such as anxiety & PTSD, which don't fall at all in the nasty cluster B disorders you mentioned here.

lolol
INFJs: We're only moderately messed up

 

[Misty]

lolol
INFJs: We're only moderately messed up

Exactly! You always get it.

 

[Misty]

lolol
INFJs: We're only moderately messed up

 

[Wyote]

Yup, trapped in the middle there

 

[Vendrah]

What about the 4s?? Tons of INFJ are 4s and many ENFJs are 2s. I'm a 4. 4's can be neurotic as hell. Also.. neurosis isn't a personality disorder. There are other issues that INFJs are prone to, psychologically speaking, such as anxiety & PTSD, which don't fall at all in the nasty cluster B disorders you mentioned here.

I know the PDs are not neurosis and vice-versa, but I use both and more things to evaluate "balance", so they still go as argument, as separated arguments.

Anxiety has statistics on Big Five since it is a Neuroticism facet and it's stronger on ISFJs, specially IXFX:

My whole list of disorders that I mapped are:
Paranoid Schizoid Schizotypal Antisocial Borderline Histrionic Narcissistic Avoidant Dependent OCPD Pas.-Agress. Depressive Self-defeating Sadistic

Those on bold are almost independent of MBTI,
So there A, B and C, and some are considered related to anxiety, and Schizotypal isn't from Cluster B...

Enneagram only is complicated because I only have my own statistics and they are sort quite inductive and they don't have rigorous standards. About INFJ 4 in specific, it does change a lot related to INFJ 9. 4s are more likely to be neurotic even though in raw/"skeleton" enneagram there is not really a relationship that I could notice, so a INFJ 4 is more likely to be neurotic, also 4 is a type that it does relate as much as 5 to Schizotypal even though the enneagram institute and theory probably say otherwise, so a INFJ 4 might have some unhealthy tendencies related to Neuroticism and Schizotypal PD, but the same can be said about INFP 4, ISFP 4 (on Neuroticism) that are often 4s as well (IXFXs 4s in general). 4s also relates to borderline pd. This may makes the INFJ 4 look a disaster but it is not, 6s tends to also be High on Neuroticism across many types and 5s also tends to be Schizotypal as well, and Schizotypal is one in many disorders. But through my inductive statistic, it is extremely unlikely that even half of INFJs 4s are Schizotypal, it should be way less than that.

PTSD is a thing that does not have data, but we don't have much information to say about PTSD and type, I think it would be quite of a jump to assume that PTSD is very highly related to INFJ just because INFJ is rare, it is really a shot in the dark.

 

[John K]

That's what got them into trouble in the first place. Sales & Marketing playing with the heavy equipment again.

INFJ oriented people tend to internalise and identify with people, situations and things that matter to us. That means when they go wrong we feel like we are going wrong inside but it’s not really us. It’s not easy to separate stuff like this out and stop it invading and distorting our core self. I found that consciously keeping the moon and the sun inside too made a huge difference - the wind and the rain, the distant stars, the magic of creation, special places, the clouds on the mountain tops, my family, lots of other good things I could identify with - these give a ballast and boundary and I can use them as an antidote to whatever is going wrong. That way we can stop the external nonsense that we care about from crossing our boundaries and infecting us inside so badly.

We can always pull down the shutters and stop caring at all. That never worked for me - it felt like I’d cut my legs off.

 

[Misty]

I know the PDs are not neurosis and vice-versa, but I use both and more things to evaluate "balance", so they still go as argument, as separated arguments.

Anxiety has statistics on Big Five since it is a Neuroticism facet and it's stronger on ISFJs, specially IXFX:

My whole list of disorders that I mapped are:
Paranoid Schizoid Schizotypal Antisocial Borderline Histrionic Narcissistic Avoidant Dependent OCPD Pas.-Agress. Depressive Self-defeating Sadistic

Those on bold are almost independent of MBTI,
So there A, B and C, and some are considered related to anxiety, and Schizotypal isn't from Cluster B...

Enneagram only is complicated because I only have my own statistics and they are sort quite inductive and they don't have rigorous standards. About INFJ 4 in specific, it does change a lot related to INFJ 9. 4s are more likely to be neurotic even though in raw/"skeleton" enneagram there is not really a relationship that I could notice, so a INFJ 4 is more likely to be neurotic, also 4 is a type that it does relate as much as 5 to Schizotypal even though the enneagram institute and theory probably say otherwise, so a INFJ 4 might have some unhealthy tendencies related to Neuroticism and Schizotypal PD, but the same can be said about INFP 4, ISFP 4 (on Neuroticism) that are often 4s as well (IXFXs 4s in general). 4s also relates to borderline pd. This may makes the INFJ 4 look a disaster but it is not, 6s tends to also be High on Neuroticism across many types and 5s also tends to be Schizotypal as well, and Schizotypal is one in many disorders. But through my inductive statistic, it is extremely unlikely that even half of INFJs 4s are Schizotypal, it should be way less than that.

PTSD is a thing that does not have data, but we don't have much information to say about PTSD and type, I think it would be quite of a jump to assume that PTSD is very highly related to INFJ just because INFJ is rare, it is really a shot in the dark.

Personally, I haven't met any other INFJ's without trauma and or PTSD related to their trauma. I'm not really big on statistics as far as psychology and MBTI are concerned because, to be honest, there are so many people who never seek therapy. Introverts, irrespective of type, tend to internalise pain and trauma, holding it all inside either out of shame, anonymity, or the desire to deal with it themselves through spiritual means, family, friends, or shoving it in a closet devoid of light and hoping it goes away. So charts and graphs don't really give us an accurate picture, unfortunately. It would certainly be helpful if they did, but loads of people never ever report their traumas, I didn't, and are thus far underrepresented as far as "stats" go.

 

[DippidyDot]

I think it's more likely the opposite - that the figures overestimate the number of INFJs because they are more likely to pursue MBTI with more energy than many other types. I also think quite a few of these are probably mistyped, because Ni isn't easy to grasp - the narrative descriptions of it are not always very good.

Being grossly misunderstood in childhood is very bad for anyone's stability. Those of us who had one or both parents as NFs were incredibly lucky in the lottery of life - because we don't get any mercy from other kids our own age. Most INFJ children had problems fitting in at home as well as with their peer group.

I completely agree, INFJ makes for a relatively lonely, misunderstood childhood. Maybe that is why we tend to combine creative and mundane things in our work life and why so many of us are writers, because of all that enforced "me-time". I have not met another INFJ in person and have not really ever felt that I am truly understood anywhere...although my psychologist said being truly understood is just about as rare as an INFJ

 

[DippidyDot]

Personally, I haven't met any other INFJ's without trauma and or PTSD related to their trauma. I'm not really big on statistics as far as psychology and MBTI are concerned because, to be honest, there are so many people who never seek therapy. Introverts, irrespective of type, tend to internalise pain and trauma, holding it all inside either out of shame, anonymity, or the desire to deal with it themselves through spiritual means, family, friends, or shoving it in a closet devoid of light and hoping it goes away. So charts and graphs don't really give us an accurate picture, unfortunately. It would certainly be helpful if they did, but loads of people never ever report their traumas, I didn't, and are thus far underrepresented as far as "stats" go.

I do have PTSD, but it was because of almost dying from blood loss after surgery, so in this scenario it can not really be taken as confirmation of this theory.

 

[DippidyDot]

INFJ: I'm not giving you idiots the keys back.

This is my favourite thing today!!!

 

[Vendrah]

Personally, I haven't met any other INFJ's without trauma and or PTSD related to their trauma. I'm not really big on statistics as far as psychology and MBTI are concerned because, to be honest, there are so many people who never seek therapy. Introverts, irrespective of type, tend to internalise pain and trauma, holding it all inside either out of shame, anonymity, or the desire to deal with it themselves through spiritual means, family, friends, or shoving it in a closet devoid of light and hoping it goes away. So charts and graphs don't really give us an accurate picture, unfortunately. It would certainly be helpful if they did, but loads of people never ever report their traumas, I didn't, and are thus far underrepresented as far as "stats" go.

These stats are not based only on people who seek therapy... And a lot of common stats does have samples that are random, so just because you weren't asked anything it doesn't mean that they are wrong.

A lot of us does, in one way or another, lives on a bubble. This forum here is a sort of bubble. Just because all INFJs IRL you met so far are unhealthy, you cannot imply that all INFJs are unhealthy and have PTSD. Sorry if I sound rude..

PS: I am impressed on the internet "mbti community" widely that many people claim that they have met lots of INFJs and ENFJs, since these are rare types, it is quite unlikely that you will met a lot of them - but a lot of environments are "bubbled" and does have some type concentration, so there should be a few where INFJs and ENFJs are very presented, although in these it is imminent that INFPs and ENFPs are even more present or another cousin of xNFJ to be even more present (due to the N-J & S-P thing I explained earlier). Since I got into typology recently, I don't have much memories and there are only a few people which I know deep enough to type them properly and NOT by shortcuts, first impressions and stereotypes. From these people, I have not met a single INFJ.

 

[Ren]

These stats are not based only on people who seek therapy... And a lot of common stats does have samples that are random, so just because you weren't asked anything it doesn't mean that they are wrong.

A lot of us does, in one way or another, lives on a bubble. This forum here is a sort of bubble. Just because all INFJs IRL you met so far are unhealthy, you cannot imply that all INFJs are unhealthy and have PTSD. Sorry if I sound rude..

PS: I am impressed on the internet "mbti community" widely that many people claim that they have met lots of INFJs and ENFJs, since these are rare types, it is quite unlikely that you will met a lot of them - but a lot of environments are "bubbled" and does have some type concentration, so there should be a few where INFJs and ENFJs are very presented, although in these it is imminent that INFPs and ENFPs are even more present or another cousin of xNFJ to be even more present (due to the N-J & S-P thing I explained earlier). Since I got into typology recently, I don't have much memories and there are only a few people which I know deep enough to type them properly and NOT by shortcuts, first impressions and stereotypes. From these people, I have not met a single INFJ.

A few observations:

You're right, online communities are bubbles. It's strange when you think that there is absolutely no real life equivalent to this forum. Imagine going to a party where there are mostly INFJs! It's simply unthinkable, lol. But that's also what makes this forum special and great.

If someone claims they have met a lot of INFJs in real life, I would view their claim with suspicion. It's very unlikely. What is true, though, is that when you're INFJ and have a very keen understanding of your type, you can get better at identifying INFJs around you (IRL), although you may not know them personally. This can happen in a workplace. There is likely to be at least a few INFJs in a large workplace.

I also agree that INFJ does not seem to be the type most correlated with high neuroticism. But among the J types, it probably is fairly well represented. Neuroticism or not, however, this is hardly a factor explaining the rarity of the type. This would be like confusing description with explanation.

 

[Misty]

I do have PTSD, but it was because of almost dying from blood loss after surgery, so in this scenario it can not really be taken as confirmation of this theory.

That's why I said some, or "many, that I have known" not all in regards to PTSD. And the others I have known, as stated by a few others here as well in this thread, have endured traumas that shaped them.

I'm not trying to confirm a theory and understand you don't feel your PTSD fits into it.

 

[Misty]

These stats are not based only on people who seek therapy... And a lot of common stats does have samples that are random, so just because you weren't asked anything it doesn't mean that they are wrong.

A lot of us does, in one way or another, lives on a bubble. This forum here is a sort of bubble. Just because all INFJs IRL you met so far are unhealthy, you cannot imply that all INFJs are unhealthy and have PTSD. Sorry if I sound rude..

PS: I am impressed on the internet "mbti community" widely that many people claim that they have met lots of INFJs and ENFJs, since these are rare types, it is quite unlikely that you will met a lot of them - but a lot of environments are "bubbled" and does have some type concentration, so there should be a few where INFJs and ENFJs are very presented, although in these it is imminent that INFPs and ENFPs are even more present or another cousin of xNFJ to be even more present (due to the N-J & S-P thing I explained earlier). Since I got into typology recently, I don't have much memories and there are only a few people which I know deep enough to type them properly and NOT by shortcuts, first impressions and stereotypes. From these people, I have not met a single INFJ.

I'm not interested in arguments about statistics which aren't really accurate or tension etc. I think we just disagree here.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

 

[DippidyDot]

That's why I said some, or "many, that I have known" not all in regards to PTSD. And the others I have known, as stated by a few others here as well in this thread, have endured traumas that shaped them.

I'm not trying to confirm a theory and understand you don't feel your PTSD fits into it.

This was not meant as an attack on you or your experiences.