Why is there so much INFJ vs INFP confusion?

Mary Shelley

Mary Shelley

Fearless & Powerful
MBTI
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INFP mistyping as INFJ and vice versa seems really common. This surprises me since they have no functions in common (Ni/Fe/Ti/Se vs Fi/Ne/Si/Te). Last night I watched an instructional video on youtube that was supposedly describing INFJ and even that seemed to describe a lot of INFP to me.

Socionics is confusing at first glance. Their descriptions of types and functions seem to overlap a little, they break down the order of the functions differently, and they assign the last letter different. INFp in Socionics aligns functionally with INFJ in MBTI. INFj in Socionics aligns functionally with INFP in MBTI. I wondered if this was contributing to the confusion, but the occurrence seems high even without Socionics considerations.

Some thoughts I have had for what could contribute to this:
  • Many of the people most interested in this stuff are INFJ. Perhaps the descriptions show a bias in accuracy or desirability. Who better to describe what it is like to be that type than someone who is that type? How could an INFJ possibly describe what it is like to be INTP or INFP as well?
  • There is confusion about the functions and what they mean. This seems universally true but why does it seem more pronounced between INFJ and INFP? INFP seem far less likely to think they are ISTJ or ESTP.
  • Perceiving and Judging don't match common definitions. I commonly read discussions about whether someone has a messy desk or is on time to work, similar to the generalizations seen in MBTI online tests.
  • The common usage of the word "judgmental" may be considered. An Fi dominant can possibly be a little pickier about who they care about and under what circumstances so maybe they think they must therefore have a J in the MBTI type.
  • Feeling is a judging function. Although the letter designation is picked based on whether there is an extroverted judging dominant or auxiliary function (Fe or Te), Feeling and Thinking are both spoken of as judging functions even when they are introverted.
  • Opposites attract is a common belief. Many say the ideal mate of a given MBTI person is someone who has opposing functions. Many say ENFP is therefore an ideal mate for an INFJ. Commonly, however, people get along better with people who may have more common functions (they "relate" better). So someone who gets along great with an ENFP may think therefore they must be INFJ, when actually it may be that INFP gets along far better with ENFP because they have common functions. (There are many variations on these attraction and matching theories. This was not to dispute or promote any one of them--it's just to say that using who you are attracted to or like to be around to determine type may lead some to mistype themselves.
  • Jesus/Ghandi was an INFJ. Martyrs and leaders have legendary reputations that cause many people who are presently or were ever followers may consider that because they are trying to be like them, they must therefore be the same type.
  • Hitler was an INFJ. At the other extreme, perhaps some people who are depressed, see themselves as infamous, or are self loathing may relate to the idea of being like a historical figure who in culture is practically synonymous with evil.
  • Delusions of grandeur and narcissism. With either of the last two things or any other famous person alleged to be INFJ, someone who has delusions of grandeur or who is very narcissistic or perhaps even have Narcissistic Personality Disorder may subconsciously want to type themselves as common to these famous historical figures.
  • Inferior thinking (perceived). That phrase sounds like something a lot of people would not want to hear even though it is not intended the way it sounds. Similarly, someone who is INFJ but has negative self image issues related to intelligence may feel that this does describe them.
  • Inferior thinking (actual). Someone with a less developed inferior thinking function may have some trouble processing the reasoning. Introverted thinking is tertiary with INFJ too, though, so it's still not a top function. Does this play a role? Are interested INTPs generally better at determining type?
  • Extroverted thinking. Extroverted thinking is better at judging facts and logic than at understanding complex systems.

Which of these things do you think contribute? What other things? I feel like I'm missing something. Maybe an Ne user such as an INFP can come up with other stuff I would have never considered. :)
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
Because both INFJs and INFPs are intuitive feeling introverts?
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This and also that both demonstrate a kind of sensitivity which often makes it easier to confuse them.
 
ThisIsWhoIAm said:
Because both INFJs and INFPs are intuitive feeling introverts?
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True, but their intuitive functions are different and so are their feeling functions. I think if people focused more on the functions rather than on the type descriptions then there would be less type confusion.

Ne is not like Ni and Fi is not Fe. I do not see INFJs and INFPs as being very similar at all when you inspect their worldviews, values and ideas closer which is probably to be expected as they share no commonly used functions.
 
Mhm I agree with honey. I think it's because people focus more on the letters than the functions and also most people who discover MBTI are basing results off crappy imitation tests they found online which aren't always that accurate. (Along with the fact a lot of people force results withuot necessarily realising it!)

PS. I apologise for crappy typing -- my keyboard is fucked.
 
Where should some one go to have an accurate MBTI test done? I have been searching for places to go in my city that deal with MBTI specifically but I am coming up short. I constantly bring back INFJ results from the online tests but I don't like how the questions are worded... They are way too open to interpretation and I think I actually subconsciously start choosing my way to my results depending on what I am thinking of at the time.

It kinda feels like the questions are supposed to represent polar opposites but I tend to relate to either of the options more in different situations and sometimes I relate to both at the same time.
 
malenko said:
Where should some one go to have an accurate MBTI test done? I have been searching for places to go in my city that deal with MBTI specifically but I am coming up short. I constantly bring back INFJ results from the online tests but I don't like how the questions are worded... They are way too open to interpretation and I think I actually subconsciously start choosing my way to my results depending on what I am thinking of at the time.

It kinda feels like the questions are supposed to represent polar opposites but I tend to relate to either of the options more in different situations and sometimes I relate to both at the same time.
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The official MBTI test can be taken online here for $49.95
https://www.mbticomplete.com/en/index.aspx

I have no confidence that the test result would be accurate. I'm sure it is better than some of the online tests but will undoubtedly try to reach conclusions about judging using common stereotypes rather than functions.

The best way to determine type would be to develop a clear and distinct understand of each function, choose which describe you best, arrange them in the order in which you use them most, and then pick the closest Exxx and Ixxx to that description. Then use some of the more common questions to determine whether you are extrovert or introvert; an INFJ can think they use Fe more than anything but if social interaction drains them, they are INFJ (Ni/Fe), not ENFJ (Fe/Ni). Send me a message if you want help with this. I'm not an expert--I'm just obsessed recently.
 
I'm surprised that it happens. I know a couple of INFPs and one INFJ...they are really nothing alike.

Maybe I'll take that back. Fe in INFJs can look strange and maybe hard to recognize.
 
I think there's confusion between how types appear vs. who they are at the core. We can often manifest or demonstrate traits of various types because not everyone clearly expresses their types in a way everyone can identify or recognize. So, I don't think it's that difficult to notice similarities among types. I think the biggest difference between INFJs and INFPs is how they express Fe vs. Fi. I've often wondered myself whether I am Fe or Fi. I've assumed Fi since I've identified with the INFP descriptions. No one has ever really given me a clear explanation of why I seem more INFP than INFJ without resorting to typical INFP stereotypes. I think of Fe as social harmony and I think of Fi as personal values over social. I can definitely identify with the "defender" label given to INFJs which probably has to do with their Ti-Fe. On the other hand, but Te seems a more well developed function probably because of skill development in education. So, i'm still a little lost. I never thought of myself as having high intuition although I really badly wanted to :D. But sometimes, I can figure things out by pickinng up on patterns or in my environment - probably that introverted intuitive thing, which I chalk up to Ne instead of Ni. And the way I think sometimes, falls more under Ti instead of Te. So, I'm always looking for simple descriptions that can help explain the real difference between the functions. Someone, simply saying they just know someone is A or B type doesn't help you the person understand it if you see all these seeming contradictions in how you behave or think.
 
I've found that a good way to tell is to see how you relate to other types. Of course, this can be entirely subjective, but if you're confused between a few types, and get to a certain level of understanding about cognitive functions and the mbti system, then try to type some people you have regular contact with and use that to compare and contrast the types you think you may be against them. It is good to start by having some sort of reference point. For instance, INFP and INFJ are both in the idealist temperament, both can be romantic and dreamers, artistic, into philosophical and interpersonal pursuits, etc, but a big difference, as forementioned, is how they use their feeling function. Now to an Fe dominant, an Fi dominant is going to appear to them to behave is a selfish manner because of their tendency to disregard social conventions in the pursuit of constructing their own subjective ethical system. This does not mean they are selfish, just that they appear to be so. Now someone with auxillary Fe, as in the case with an INFJ, will still see Fi dominants in a similar manner, but a little less so because they they still aren't Fi dominant, and may be able to relate to Fi dominants from time to time, especially if they share similar interests and goals. But overall, an INFJ may have a tendency to view an INFP as friendly and nice, and obviously having a lot of feeling inside, but they can also be a bit more sensitive to criticism, and unyielding is what they believe to be right or wrong. If they don't know you well, they may also come across as a little cold, much how a thinker may also come across to an INFJ. One Fi dominant person in my life is on a seemingly never ending quest to find out who they are and remain true to that, even at the expense of prior obligations and sometimes at the expense of others. Again, this is not to reinforce any stereotypes, but to point out how different types may view other types before learning to understand them.

An Fe users, such an an INFJ, may seek to understand certain truths about themselves and others and may even modify, or suspend, their own beliefs to fit in with others to avoid creating a negatively charged environment. I do this often. I find myself agreeing with conservatives in conversation, even though I don't agree with them personally, and the same with people that are more liberal than me, even if I don't agree with their far left propositions. I'm willing to suspend my personal ethical system to explore a different perspective as well as avoid conflict, in a search for what I find to be the truth. My own positions may even change from time to time once I've explored issues further. I used to be really liberal, but after exploring conservative ideas the last couple of years, I would say that I'm more of a moderate, with liberal tendencies.

The other point of contrast is thinking vs feeling. Much like an INTP, who takes a good chunk of their life to properly integrate feeling functions into their lives, an INFP will take a big chunk of theirs to integrate thinking functions into their lives. I'll give what I think is a couple good example of what weak thinking would look like. One is barefoot running. There are people who have an idealism of the evolution of mankind and claim that people should still run around barefoot because our feet evolved and were "designed" to be without footwear. I don't want to get into why this is poor thinking here, just to point out that it is. The other is vegetarianism. There are people who are so against eating meat, that they fail to see the evidence that not only did we evolve to eat it( we are physiologically omnivores), but they may find weak links to certain diseases via meat consumption and conclude that eating meat is unnatural, etc. I am not saying that being an INFP means that you accept any of these propositions and I am not saying that they are incapable of thinking, I'm just giving examples of weak thinking here.

Now an INFJ may have difficulty determining their type in a number of different ways. One, they may have neglected Fe to some extent, focusing on Ni-Ti, and may confuse themselves for an INTJ or INTP. Two, they may use Ni-Ti to build traits that may appear to be Fi dominant, even though they aren't, and confuse themselves for an INFP, or ISFP. Three, they may not realize they are using Ni and explore other dominant functions , such as Si, Ti, or Fi, until they eventually arrive at an "ahh haa" moment, as Ni often does, and realize that Ni is their dominant function, and until then are quite confused about their type. Also, remember that INFJs are almost evenly thinkers and feelers, with a slight preference for feeling over thinking. They often think of themselves as both artistic and scientific. If you think you are an INFP, but feel evenly split over your thinking and feeling functions, you may actually be an INFJ.
 
Also, I went to reply to this thread a couple of days ago, but nothing came to mind. I've been brewing over it since then, and then just sat down and wrote the above. It is as if my brain was subconsciously thinking over this stuff and then it just flows out once I start writing. I think this process is indicative of Ni users, but that could just be my own subjective opinion.
 
Jimmers said:
It is as if my brain was subconsciously thinking over this stuff and then it just flows out once I start writing. I think this process is indicative of Ni users, but that could just be my own subjective opinion.
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This is familiar to me. Sometimes people can't believe what I write as a rough draft over one sitting and how it ties together well. But when I'm obsessed with something, I never quite shut off so it's always brewing until I finally give it outlet.
 
Another thing...lol.....The whole Judging/Perceiving thing is entirely misleading. A strong Te is a better indicator of the need for external orderliness than NiFe or FiNe. INFP have a weak Te, while INFJ have little to none so it is basically a toss up between which one is going to be more orderly, since both tend to value this much less than some other types. Every type has both perceiving and judging functions and they don't necessarily correlate with how clean your house or desk is. What they show is how you like your world ordered. INFP is going to organize their value system before they are going to organize their room. I think its a little trickier with an INFJ. Fe often matures much later than Ni and it may be difficult to detect. In its relation to Ni, it may pick and choose which social conventions to appease and which ones not to. They may clean their room to avoid conflict and create a warming atmosphere and not because they actually desire to have an orderly room. At the same time they may completely disregard cleaning their room if they are engaged in a good book or immersed in other interests but will at some point do it to once again create a sense of harmony in their environment. Most of the time my house is moderately messy, but I will go to great lengths to clean my house when I'm expecting company because I know that a clean house makes a guest feel more comfortable, which makes the visitation more enjoyable for the both of us. My wife could care less what our house looks like to other people, lol. Socionics, I think, actually identifies NiFes better in that they recognize that they are perceivers first, and judgers second. What I don't like about socionics is that the descriptions often sound as if they are defining a single person as opposed to a group of traits that pertains to the type as a whole. In many cases they are, for Filatova describes the types by recognizable celebrities, which is a horrible way to account for the diversity within type. That would be like giving the description of Einstein for INTP(mbti) as a definition of INTP. That is back asswards. One should have a general description, using a variety of specific people as examples to make a medley of individuals into a single type. It should be all wide enough to account for the diversity observed within each type, but not too wide to be devoid of any meaning.
 
I see typing yourself a lot like attempting to tickle yourself; you simply cannot do it once you know what to expect. This is especially true if you've read a lot of material and you've been exposed to biases, especially from people on mbti forums.

That as an aside, my personal theory as to why it is so difficult to distinguish between Ni and Fi is because people seem to forget that these functions, while conceptually similar, operate differently. Fi is conscious, Ni is subconscious.

The judging functions (Fi, Fe, Ti and Te) are basically the filters in your head that consciously put information into the context of what you already know. Fi is a self-referential judging function and therefore it judges in reference to the self. If your default modus operandi is questioning content for its meaning and re-framing and turning over your value system and coding them into terms of broad concepts, you are more than likely using Fi in tandem with Ne. Most of your focus energy depends on evaluating information coming in and the process of arriving at a decision or outcome. As an introverted judger, you are in the business of taking sample of the external world, stripping it down to its value-based constructs and synthesizing it with your existing knowledge-base. It's a conscious search for patterns and foundations and when paired with Ne, it's a highly meta-cognitive function.

Ni, on the other hand, is a lot like Fi, but the process is subconscious. You do not see it. You are not even aware it's working. Asking any INTJ. It's just an awareness that the pattern is there. What comes to the fore is Fe, which a context-referential judging function, and its interest is in acting on values it's unconsciously inferred and adopted from previous experiences and testing them in the new context. If your default modus operandi is outwardly addressing patterns that you haven't consciously considered and you rely on either immediate social cues or learned social systems to chart your course, you are likely using Ni in tandem with Fe. Because Ni is subconscious, you don't have to spend too much time considering the 'how' process of approaching the problem. You already have that partially figured out on a subconscious level. The majority of your focus is on what exists outside of the self and the result or desired outcome.

Most Ni-types find it beneficial to sleep on a problem. Fi types need to have a visual of the big picture before they feel comfortable deciding on a course of action.

The other way to consider the difference between INFP and INFJ? The amount of mind chatter you entertain. Judgers tend to have more clarity and don't second guess themselves because their self-referential judging process are unconscious and therefore serve as their perceiving functions. Judgers are more concerned with how to apply things to an outside context rather than how to go about discovering a process for what works or doesn't work within themselves. While they do introspect, it's rarely for the process of self-discovery. The goal is usually to solve some problem outside of themselves.

In the Big Five personality traits, Judgers score higher on conscientiousness and lower on neuroticism than Perceivers. Perceivers typically score higher in neuroticism and lower in conscientiousness than Judgers.

Perceivers, meanwhile, are always focused on what they're witnessing. INFPs are much like INTPs in a way-- they're constantly trying to build a better theory, a better self-concept, a better ideal with which they can align themselves with. They're more concerned with the process of how things work, how to realize their ideas. There is information coming in from the outside, but it's not as important as the way the data is being processed and conceptualized within.

Think of the difference between INTJs and INTPs and you'll understand the differences between INFJs and INFPs. The same can be said if you understand the differences between an ENFJ and an ENFP. Indeed, ENFJ and INFJ are remarkably similar, as are ENFP and INFP in their thinking. The functions and their processes are pretty much the same. An easy way to think of the difference between between introverts and their extroverted counterparts is that introverts are self-stimulating while extroverts are, well, not.
 
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Yeah, the continued descriptions of INFPs as not being orderly or acting on impulse have always bothered me. I think orderly or how organized someone may be is not the best way to explain the differences between perceiver/judger. I think a better word is prioritize. This would explain the differences much better for me because I think types process things by level of importance each person gives particular concerns or tasks. For example, an INFP may feel that how comfortable one feels in one's home (Fi) is more important than how it is perceived to someone else (Fe). I value personal organization of mental/intellectual thoughts over organization of physical environment/space. If anyone has ever seen my study notes, I have to organize my notes using some sort of structure for me to make sense of anything. But ask me to explain that organization to someone else, and I'll have difficulty (Te). Breaking it down has been a great help to me in helping someone understand how to organize information when providing instructions. There's quite a few taken for granted steps in my mind that I don't verbalize which someone else may need to understand my train of thought when I am explaining something (Ti or Te?). On the other hand, early on I've noticed that I value truth of something above social niceties. It's only in the last 10 years of being in college that I've changed my orientation to value social above Ti concerns and I think it's because of the cultural emphasis on social concerns and interactions. I like rules and I hate when there are too many exceptions to a rule. However, I have adjusted my thinking to accept that there are instances in which rules may need to be changed or broken. But usually, I prefer stability, consistency, and permanence over impulse and spontaneity. However, too much organization and structure can be overdone and limit freedom to change directions or be creative. What I am noticing however in some of the explanations in the differences between INFJs and INFPs is a black and white way of explaining differences when it's not so simple.
 
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sentientsixpence said:
How do you mean? You feel that INFJs express Fe in a way that seems different from other types with Fe? Can you describe more?
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It's been answered well by the other posters. They beat me to it!

From the one INFJ I know, she will express a strong opinion and then ask me what do I think. When I say what I think (if I've even given any thought to it), if it doesn't align with what she said, she appears put out. Like one of us is wrong somehow but she cannot put her finger on it and will just kind of deflate. Or she sometimes she will change her view to match mine--it depends. I really dislike it and sometimes I am reluctant to air my views on things because of it. I understand that Fe works like this but at times, this just bugs the f*** out of me.
 
INFJs and INFPs are very different.

Ones are firstly Intuitives, and the other ones are firstly Feelers. They have different behaviour, different temperaments, INFPs being more phlegmatic-sanguine and INFJ melancholic-sanguine.

INFPs are calm with soft but firm movements. In terms of appearence, INFPs seem more "solid" than INFJs, more present and "occupying the space", they are "there".

INFJs on the other hand, are "fluid like a river", and sometimes are miles away, seeming torn out from reality. They have also very soft movements and typically non-demonstrative (unless they are a dictator like Hitler, of course).

INFPs, having Te in their stack of functions, can be pretty active people, and also they have a good eye for practical matters.

While INFJs on the other hand, having primarely Ni, they can sometimes just contemplating or observe, with a line of behaviour frequently passive.


INFPs have that impassionate expression on their face, as if they are stoics or something. It is very interesting, because with Fi, they have developed capacity for compassion and depth of feeling, yet never show it. Outside, they seem impenetrable and calm, gentle.


INFPs are generaly more steady, rarely moody. INFJs can be very moody, with abrupt changes of dispositions.


In terms of likes and dislike, INFPs always know what they like and what they dislike, and also what they want. There is a firmness of the will in them.
INFJs can get confused when asked what they like and dislike, or what they want. They can be very fickle and indecisive.


Both are very sensible to criticism and vulnerable, tough INFPs may know how to hide it inside, INFJs may wear their heart on "their sleeves".

INFPs usualy get into jobs that follows human potential, as they are natural humanitarians. They can be found especialy in medicine and stuff like that, where they can comfort and "feel" with the patients. They really like that and they are really good at it.

INFJs can be found in all kinds of places on the other hand, or saving the world, of course.


INFPs get along very well with ESTJs, while INFJs are more with ESTPs and ISTPs.


INFJs can have philosophical bends, or work in science. INFPs are more into very practical projects. Also they can be natural innovators or inventors, especially those who have a strong Te.

Genneraly, INFPs are very pleasant personalities and likeable, until you make a mistake with them, or simply "lie" them, in which case they are over with you forever.
INFJs are kind of the same in this aspect. Also they might hold grudges for a long time, behaving passive agrresive.


INFPs can be moralist practical philosophers. They like to understand and practice morality, to talk about justice and compassion. They love morality, and having Fi, they naturaly very well understand moral dillemas and matters, and can easily explain them to others.


So yeah, just a few ideas. Of course, these are not applicable to any INFJs or INFPs, because there are many many kinds and varities of INFPs, and especially of INFJs.
 
You have a good sense of the types, [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION] (EDIT: Actually. most of the posters here do), and the post above corresponds with what Socionics theory has taught me. It is very interesting how the INFJ seems more like a perceiving type and how the INFP seems more like a judging type, upon a more-than-superficial examination.
 
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