jupiterswoon
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Excellent
Why is validation from others so important?
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Excellent
Rift Zone
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Precicely! My social life is iffy. I have friends but none are really close to me. Even the ones I consider family, I cant really relate to well. No one gives a fuck about the things I'm preoccupied with. Pressing the properties and intricacies of time, QM, relativity, Plasma, spirituality, governance, agriculture, transportation, natural resources, medicine, infrastructure... Are you familiar with that constant mind chatter we INTJs have? Those things are all I have going on up there. No, I didn't see the show, game, movie... I am extremely fringe no matter how you look at it. I don't deeply relate to anyone.
[MENTION=5301]jupiterswoon[/MENTION], I'm sorry to hear you are familiar that scenario. I'm very happy with who I am but the isolation almost isn't worth it at times. I hope you are similar in that regard as well: to appreciate who you are even if nobody else does.
jupiterswoon
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Here is an interesting thought- validation versus relating-
val·i·date [val-i-deyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), val·i·dat·ed, val·i·dat·ing.
1.
to make valid; substantiate; confirm: Time validated our suspicions.
2.
to give legal force to; legalize.
3.
to give official sanction, confirmation, or approval to, as elected officials, election procedures, documents, etc.: to validate a passport.
relating
Use Relating in a sentence
re·late [ri-leyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), re·lat·ed, re·lat·ing.
1.
to tell; give an account of (an event, circumstance, etc.).
2.
to bring into or establish association, connection, or relation: to relate events to probable causes.
verb (used without object), re·lat·ed, re·lat·ing.
3.
to have reference (often followed by to ).
4.
to have some relation (often followed by to ).
5.
to establish a social or sympathetic relationship with a person or thing: two sisters unable to relate to each other.
I think that there is a huge difference/discrepancy between these two things. I think that if a person is well thought out then they won't need validation, because they don't need other people to "make valid" the circumstances of their lives, they accept things for what they are, they know themselves. On the other hand, I think relating is incredibly important to the human condition, and without it, people would despair. Having a true comrade, a partner, is significantly different from having a friend who appears to compliment everyone she meets on a random article of clothing. I don't want a friend to validate me, I want them to challenge me, but also to relate to me- to help me grow as a person. Validation seems to form a sort of stagnation- if people are confirmed about things (like how awesome they are) then they won't feel a need to step out of the box. That being said, a drive for validation as a very powerful reinforcer can also lead people to establish great feats- e.g. Steve Martin and his need for validation lead him to become a great comedian (because he had a shitty relationship with his dad and needed validation). But the difference (in my opinion) is that a person who seeks validation does it more subconsciously, whereas a person who seeks a true relation with someone does it consciously (and is more likely to validate themselves without external need for validation). Personally, I would rather have relations with people who don't need validation.
The funny thing is that many people use validation as a means of forming a relationship when there is in fact no substance. Because I validate you, doesn't mean I relate to you. I can confirm that the crazy Baptist group exists, but that doesn't mean I relate to them. I think in American culture, because people are so spread apart and don't really know much about forming relationships, that people often/always assume that because someone validates them, they are relating to them. This is definitely a mistake I have made before.
I think that the need for validation can sometimes ruin relationships- and that when a person "needs" validation from a partner, and doesn't get it, that they may seek validation elsewhere. Likewise, a person may seek friends who prop them up, rather than tell them the truth. [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]
val·i·date [val-i-deyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), val·i·dat·ed, val·i·dat·ing.
1.
to make valid; substantiate; confirm: Time validated our suspicions.
2.
to give legal force to; legalize.
3.
to give official sanction, confirmation, or approval to, as elected officials, election procedures, documents, etc.: to validate a passport.
relating
Use Relating in a sentence
re·late [ri-leyt] Show IPA
verb (used with object), re·lat·ed, re·lat·ing.
1.
to tell; give an account of (an event, circumstance, etc.).
2.
to bring into or establish association, connection, or relation: to relate events to probable causes.
verb (used without object), re·lat·ed, re·lat·ing.
3.
to have reference (often followed by to ).
4.
to have some relation (often followed by to ).
5.
to establish a social or sympathetic relationship with a person or thing: two sisters unable to relate to each other.
I think that there is a huge difference/discrepancy between these two things. I think that if a person is well thought out then they won't need validation, because they don't need other people to "make valid" the circumstances of their lives, they accept things for what they are, they know themselves. On the other hand, I think relating is incredibly important to the human condition, and without it, people would despair. Having a true comrade, a partner, is significantly different from having a friend who appears to compliment everyone she meets on a random article of clothing. I don't want a friend to validate me, I want them to challenge me, but also to relate to me- to help me grow as a person. Validation seems to form a sort of stagnation- if people are confirmed about things (like how awesome they are) then they won't feel a need to step out of the box. That being said, a drive for validation as a very powerful reinforcer can also lead people to establish great feats- e.g. Steve Martin and his need for validation lead him to become a great comedian (because he had a shitty relationship with his dad and needed validation). But the difference (in my opinion) is that a person who seeks validation does it more subconsciously, whereas a person who seeks a true relation with someone does it consciously (and is more likely to validate themselves without external need for validation). Personally, I would rather have relations with people who don't need validation.
The funny thing is that many people use validation as a means of forming a relationship when there is in fact no substance. Because I validate you, doesn't mean I relate to you. I can confirm that the crazy Baptist group exists, but that doesn't mean I relate to them. I think in American culture, because people are so spread apart and don't really know much about forming relationships, that people often/always assume that because someone validates them, they are relating to them. This is definitely a mistake I have made before.
I think that the need for validation can sometimes ruin relationships- and that when a person "needs" validation from a partner, and doesn't get it, that they may seek validation elsewhere. Likewise, a person may seek friends who prop them up, rather than tell them the truth. [MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]
LucyJr
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[MENTION=5301]jupiterswoon[/MENTION]
Yeah, you put it very well. I thought validation would have to senses, two meanings: one is to be validated in the sense to be "confirmed", or "accepted", and the other one to be on the same level with other people, to be able to form a connection. But like you said, the word "relate" is much more accurate.
There are so many people in the world, who are lonely, desperate, whithout friends.
I think to relate is a initiative on both parts. If a person tries to relate to me, but I am selfish, whithout making any effort to relate to the person, I'll end up empty and exasperated, and whithout any real connection. So I think it must be a effort on both parts.And its not just about connection, but to be really interested to know the person, to spend time with the person, to establish a bond, which will lead to true friendship.
Yeah, you put it very well. I thought validation would have to senses, two meanings: one is to be validated in the sense to be "confirmed", or "accepted", and the other one to be on the same level with other people, to be able to form a connection. But like you said, the word "relate" is much more accurate.
So beautifuly said! That was my idea too, we as humans need to relate to each others.
There are so many people in the world, who are lonely, desperate, whithout friends.
I think to relate is a initiative on both parts. If a person tries to relate to me, but I am selfish, whithout making any effort to relate to the person, I'll end up empty and exasperated, and whithout any real connection. So I think it must be a effort on both parts.And its not just about connection, but to be really interested to know the person, to spend time with the person, to establish a bond, which will lead to true friendship.
jupiterswoon
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BrokenDaniel
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As an INFJ i don't really crave for validation, i have nothing to prove to most people, if it happens, good anyway. I do admit that there are some individuals (one actually) in my life which do have something that makes me want to impress them. It's funny because sometimes i would act like a child in front of them to get their attention and prove to them that i'm fun and interesting. Then i realize that the only thing i'm proving is how insecure i am...
To a certain extent the need for validation is universal, it varies from person to person. Looking for validation from strangers all the time is obviously a sign of insecurity. However, don't see nothing wrong with being somewhat dependent of another person's approval, specially if it's someone you love, respect and admire.
To a certain extent the need for validation is universal, it varies from person to person. Looking for validation from strangers all the time is obviously a sign of insecurity. However, don't see nothing wrong with being somewhat dependent of another person's approval, specially if it's someone you love, respect and admire.
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54tjsioU
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INFJs, I think, would want validation more than usual. They absolutely hate criticism and though INFPs hate criticism too INFPs are perfectly capable of saying, "Fuck you guys, that's your own damn fault. Disagree with me all you'd like, doesn't change the fact you're an idiot." Whereas INFJs will internalize it into something they did wrong and probably say the above to themselves. INFJs are INFJs worst enemy. I'm sure it's similar with ENFJs though they surround themselves with people and get validation from that so it maybe less damaging to them.
pythia
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I sought validation from all the wrong kinds of people. I was never motivated or happy when I sought validation because it felt like asking for permission to achieve what I wanted.
When I finally (in adulthood) felt like I got validation from people like my family---it was too little too late. I didn't feel inspired or satisfied with myself when they validated me because I'd had to sort out that by BEING A PERSON, I am inherently valid. I've sometimes gotten offended when I'm having a conversation and someone kind of...VALIDATES me...like I needed it---like anyone REALLY needs it.
I tend to naturally validate others because I find all perceptions and perspectives valid! It's important for humanity to have variance so I always will listen and take in and validate other perspectives that are not my own. I tend not to be a person that is ever a NAY SAYER or aggressive. I accept first and then carefully compare and contrast. It is easy for me to be proud and happy of people I like, it is easy for me to recognise why validation works for the more sensitive spots of others and how it can motivate them.
For me, validation comes from seeing my work endeavours succeed. It has a lot to do with reaching milestones in my goals. That, to me, is really my only inspiring form of validation in this world. When I succeed at the things I really want, my loved ones are happy because I am happy. I'd rather have that than need constant verbal validation and moral support from my web of contacts.
When I finally (in adulthood) felt like I got validation from people like my family---it was too little too late. I didn't feel inspired or satisfied with myself when they validated me because I'd had to sort out that by BEING A PERSON, I am inherently valid. I've sometimes gotten offended when I'm having a conversation and someone kind of...VALIDATES me...like I needed it---like anyone REALLY needs it.
I tend to naturally validate others because I find all perceptions and perspectives valid! It's important for humanity to have variance so I always will listen and take in and validate other perspectives that are not my own. I tend not to be a person that is ever a NAY SAYER or aggressive. I accept first and then carefully compare and contrast. It is easy for me to be proud and happy of people I like, it is easy for me to recognise why validation works for the more sensitive spots of others and how it can motivate them.
For me, validation comes from seeing my work endeavours succeed. It has a lot to do with reaching milestones in my goals. That, to me, is really my only inspiring form of validation in this world. When I succeed at the things I really want, my loved ones are happy because I am happy. I'd rather have that than need constant verbal validation and moral support from my web of contacts.
knight in battle
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The main validation I have needed is just to be heard.
Lark
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I personally think this topic is absolutely huge and a major, major prime mover in culture and politics for a long time now but also one which is not very well acknowledged either.
The world is supposedly more individualistic and more individualised than ever before and this or the younger generation is supposedly the most narcissistic and entitled since records began but its also incredibly needy, I know that some theories about narcissism and entitlement trace them back to neediness but it seems a little contradictory to me.
The thing about validation as an expectation, which then informs politics and culture is that I done believe it something which should be encouraged but also that its something which its really not within the gift of either government or society to provide, people looking for it are likely to be disappointed, but that's not filtered into discussions about legislating respect, recognition etc. and the price tags which accompany all that.
The world is supposedly more individualistic and more individualised than ever before and this or the younger generation is supposedly the most narcissistic and entitled since records began but its also incredibly needy, I know that some theories about narcissism and entitlement trace them back to neediness but it seems a little contradictory to me.
The thing about validation as an expectation, which then informs politics and culture is that I done believe it something which should be encouraged but also that its something which its really not within the gift of either government or society to provide, people looking for it are likely to be disappointed, but that's not filtered into discussions about legislating respect, recognition etc. and the price tags which accompany all that.