Why so altruistic, INFJs?

Odyne said:
Before anyone gets offended, I meant that you are human and humans are a fragile and weak species. Not that INFJs specifically are weak and fragile. We all are. All of us, regardless of type.



Sometimes, it seems to me like altruistic people want to transcend their own human nature.
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I really don't think humans are a weak species in any right. Are we weak because we can't lift a giant rock? Who cares? We invent things and create. That's why we're strong and resilient.

Truly altruistic people just value other things/people more than themselves. I don't think they're trying to transcend human nature whatsoever; in fact the opposite. They do what pleases them the same way selfish people do, it just manifests differently.
 
I've always subscribed to the idea that(within reason!) if there is a choice to be made between helping someone else or helping yourself/hurting another or hurting yourself, and the two are mutually exclusive, it is the right choice to do for the betterment of another before yourself. As for why, it's just the environment I grew up in. My parents were always willing to help me with something or give me something if I felt like I really needed it. As I reached my teenage years, I started to feel that with the privilege of knowing someone that would give you their all, it is your duty not to take advantage of that unless you really need to(I assume that everyone experiences this to some degree, but it hit me particularly hard, and took me years to bounce back from).
The more you withdraw from an emotional bank account in a relationship, the less you have in savings, as I've heard some say. I do wish some wouldn't say it like that, because it makes it feel like someone's trust is a commodity to be cashed it whenever you feel prudent. Still, it's an apt saying for me, because while I relish in such an opportunity to show someone I care about that I do in fact care about them, I cannot help but also see the commodity of trust as well as the feeling of it.

The point, finally, is that maybe subconsciously, INFJs are the emotional penny-pinchers, who would prefer strongly, perhaps too strongly, to deposit into rather than withdraw form the bank accounts of others.
 
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the reason that i wish to give my life in service is simple but difficult to explain. it is because i am driven to do it and if i do not do it then i will become extremely unhappy and probably suicide. im sorry if that sounds melodramatic, its the truth. this is my nature and fighting it is not a viable alternative.

there is also the motivating factor that in order to be the most effective servant, it is necessary that i should develop personally all of my potentials fully, and i believe that achieving this outcome would be the most mindblowing transformative experience i could have in life. even better than a wedding day with a soulmate! which in any case i could never get to without developing fully.

i dont believe that a desire to transcend human nature is insane or futile or irrational. i believe is it sublime. that drive is what takes humanity further beyond what it is to what it could be. it is why we have penicillin and electricity and beethovens symphonies.

and Odyne you are right. if we dont learn to focus these drives and energies to appropriate goals rather than pointless or unworthy causes, and to accept that doing so has to be worthwhile for itself as there is no guarantee of a payoff, the result is either a complete nervous breakdown, or a whiny little brat infj who endlessly bitches until their heart gets consumed by hatred.

[MENTION=1579]Odyne[/MENTION] EDIT sorry i didnt mean to put words in your mouth. i kind of made it sound like you were saying infjs can be whiny little brats. i realise you didnt say that at all. its just what i happen to think about the matter. sorry.
 
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Why not?

It's good.
It's fucked up, but it's good.
It's delusional, but it's good.
It's pathetic, but it's good.
It's self-wasting, but it's good.

Perhaps it means something, or perhaps it doesn't.
I guess that is why it's a virtue.

If looking at it from a different way, I agreed with [MENTION=1939]Stu[/MENTION]; lots of times what we did wasn't selfless; perhaps we want to be treated as we treat others.
 
Are we crazy? Oh of course. Are we illogical? Maybe a smidgen. But really, what is the harm in such irrationality if it accomplishes something?
Ultimately, this is the way I view all that I do. "To whom much is given, much is required." If you have love, you had better give it. If you have passion, you had better light the world with it. If you have talents, you had better not waste them. Thus, all an INFJ does without any thanks, is just them being the person they were made to be. I don't think we can deny that some people just naturally have bigger hearts, just like some people are taller or shorter, but we also cannot deny that most of the world just plain doesn't get this.
Why would I "waste" my time helping a less gifted student? Quite simply because I can and thus I believe I should.
Also, there is simply the fact that it is ingrained in us to be useful and productive beings. This is how our personality finds its worth... in giving worth to others.
 
Trifoilum said:
Why not?

It's good.
It's fucked up, but it's good.
It's delusional, but it's good.
It's pathetic, but it's good.
It's self-wasting, but it's good.

Perhaps it means something, or perhaps it doesn't.
I guess that is why it's a virtue.

If looking at it from a different way, I agreed with [MENTION=1939]Stu[/MENTION]; lots of times what we did wasn't selfless; perhaps we want to be treated as we treat others.
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Yeah! (did i say that?)

[MENTION=1834]sandra_b[/MENTION] had in her signature the percentages that some whacked out DNA mathematician worked out that compels us to act "selflessly" when our DNA has a chance of surviving, through our off spring or cousins or whatnot. I heard an story about him on Radio Lab. Sad and interesting.

I don't doubt there are truly selfless people out there performing acts of altruism. I just think they are rare. I also think we are all capable of it and do, do it in moments of our lives.
 
Stu said:
Yeah! (did i say that?)
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The first part; the not selfless part. The next is my musing.

I agreed with you on the rest, tho. :D
 
Trifoilum said:
Why not?

It's good.
It's fucked up, but it's good.
It's delusional, but it's good.
It's pathetic, but it's good.
It's self-wasting, but it's good.

Perhaps it means something, or perhaps it doesn't.
I guess that is why it's a virtue.

If looking at it from a different way, I agreed with [MENTION=1939]Stu[/MENTION]; lots of times what we did wasn't selfless; perhaps we want to be treated as we treat others.
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Your right, but for me non of this things are good xd
 
Stu said:
Yeah! (did i say that?)

@sandra_b had in her signature the percentages that some whacked out DNA mathematician worked out that compels us to act "selflessly" when our DNA has a chance of surviving, through our off spring or cousins or whatnot. I heard an story about him on Radio Lab. Sad and interesting.

I don't doubt there are truly selfless people out there performing acts of altruism. I just think they are rare. I also think we are all capable of it and do, do it in moments of our lives.
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Did I? I don't remember this! lol
 
Ooops, sorry, (always nice to see your posts though)
 
..now this is an interesting chain. *laughs*
 
I'll be honest, I try to stay away as possible from others for this reason: I care too much about other people. I simply cannot refuse to neglect others, even if it costs me my own comfort and well-being. I cannot relate too much with other people, but I know that beneath all those layers of differences and motivations, we are in someway connected. It pains me when other people are in pain, the same way that it pains me when my hand gets hurt because when that hand gets hurt, (or any other part of my body for that matter) I can feel it as well. It is a natural compassion that I have, call it a curse or a gift, it doesn't matter. I want to give others as much as I can offer, but I wouldn't call that altruism, but rather, I'm helping myself when I give to others because their satisfaction is my satisfaction. When a beggar asks me for money or food, I gladly give them whatever I have, even if I end up with nothing myself not out of duty or pity, but because that begger is me, and I am that begger. It is a weird connection, one that I cannot even explain to myself. I cannot even fathom the idea of hurting someone, because apart from creating suffering for myself by holding on to negative thoughts and emotions, I'm also hurting my bond that I share with that individual in a deeper level, on a being level. I know that what I'm hurt and disagreeing over is not the individual itself but the role and identification that they are acting on, the mind-made identity that they have developed by their culture, and overall environment.

On the other hand, that doesn't mean that I let others step on me or that I give indiscriminately. On the contrary, out of that enormous compassion and empathy I feel for other people, also comes the urge to help others grow and mature. I do not give to others when I know that giving them or facilitating them a situation is not going to accomplish them growing up and learning from their mistakes. I take that very seriously. I would rather "teach them to fish, than giving them the fish" sort to speak.

Over the years, however, I've also learned not to get caught up in overextending myself and forgetting my own needs. But that doesn't mean I have become more selfish and uncaring, it just means that I'm taking responsibility for myself by being alone to just be and recharge. Sometimes very intense and dark emotions will rise about other people, and that's my cue that I need to take a break and go back inside of myself and see the larger perspective. That's what keeps me grounded: not losing sight of that perspective, and the interconnectedness that we all share in that deep level.

P.S. The vomit bin is to your left, for those not so feely types who had to read this. I'm sorry :(
 
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Personally, while it's important to me to be good to others, I'm assertive and practical enough to generally avoid being taken advantage of. I care, but I'm not a doormat. I suppose there might be a certain vulnerability inherent in altruism, but I don't practice it to the exclusion of my own interests.

I think altruism functions best when one also thinks of oneself as a person worthy of consideration, and acknowledges the necessity of self-care in continuing to function well and be able to continue to care for others. It's then more likely to avoid those nasty consequences like bitterness and burn-out which tend to harm altruistic pursuits anyway, in the end.

For me, altruism is the result of my own cost-benefit analysis. I think we tend to accomplish more cooperatively than antagonistically; I see the whole as being greater than the sum of its parts. Thus, I like to be an agent in encouraging, contributing to, and attempting to perpetuate this cooperation.
 
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I agree with a lot of what [MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION] said. The consistency is a big part of it for me, and it feels more natural to me. I am not out to change the world, but if I follow my idea of how the world should be, perhaps I will make a difference in someone's life (for the better). Also, I do not know about the other INFJs on this forum, but I vent a lot here when I feel that I need to let something out and I cannot find an adequate medium for release elsewhere. So, unfortunately, a lot of you see the more pained side of me, which is not something that many others see.
 
Because it is what I do.
I had a semi-therapist tell me I'm not allowed to help others anymore, at least for a while. ... But if I do that, then what. This is what I do. Without that, I am nothing. A bag of meat. It is in my nature, in my personality. I even took classes once to turn that off but it's not possible without going nuts.


With that said, since we are compelled to do so, does that mean we are selfish? In helping others, we feel better thus we use others to feel better. Would that not be the opposite of altruistic? Selfishness with a positive outcome for the other person?
 
God, I keep asking myself this. I'm getting to the point where done with it.

I've worked for non-profits for years. I've helped friends without asking or expecting anything in return. I've donated to causes and charities for years. I'm at the end of my rope and, quite frankly, I'm sick of never having anything to show for it in my entire life.

My friends have pretty much ended up taking advantage of me, or just losing interest and drifting away with no efforts to keep in touch. My career has gone to hell and left me with nothing and I have nothing in my bank account left to donate. I'm sick of being the emotional pincushion for the entire freakin' world and being abused every step of the way!

I WANT SOMETHING FOR ME!

I want to be selfish for once. I want to work in a career that has substantial paychecks involved. I want to be sought after by people for my vast wealth of knowledge. If that fails, I want to dedicate my life to bringing others down a notch on their ladders; like being a police officer just for the ability to piss other people off with a speeding ticket or becoming a lawyer so I can make money and cause other people misery.

Altruism is overrated and I'm getting sick and tired of it.
 
I hugged every single person at my mother's funeral in October. Every single one. That was not planned, even remotely. I had no idea I would hug anyone at all. I went in there with zero thoughts about such things. I hugged people who I have cut out of my life with tremendous difficulty and who, in fact, I detest. (I continue to not see any of them). I think they were genuinely taken aback by this. Like they didn't know what to make of my behaviour at all. I didn't even know what to make of my behaviour. I'm glad I hugged them, because it puts a good energy out into the world. That energy compensates somewhat for the energy that was put out into the world by THEIR behaviour that caused me to cut them out of my life in the first place. Maybe this will help you to understand INFJ's a bit better, I don't know. Energy is a big thing with me.
 
Sriracha said:
I think most INFJs have not learned to say "no." Instead they avoid people, hoping someone won't ask ... just so they don't have to say "no." It's taken me a long time to learn to say no and to put a stop to anyone who crosses my boundaries. INFJs are not very good about advocating for themselves, and because of this people learn to ask them as there will not be a refusal. It is definitely a learned behavior, and still it makes me uncomfortable to say "no" (at least until you piss me off, then you get the INFJ doorslam.) When people realize that you WILL say "no", they won't be inclined to take advantage of you.

Do I want to help others? ABSOLUTELY! I always do and it makes me feel great. I don't need anything in return (not even acknowledgment) when I know my intentions are good and actions going to a greater good.
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I can relate to what you are saying. I have been more generous than I am now, then I would do anything to be loved. But after so many years of being let down, cheated on and decieved, I have become a lot more reserved to people. I simply don't let people come close enough for such a situation to occur. But yes, I do want to help, especially those who are close to me. But I stay reserved for those who could use me. I still hurt for the "cause" though: if there is a meeting amongst friends, student's or a seminar, and I feel like i don't agree with others, and know that they will rip me apart for my ideas, I still have to speak up. There is no way stopping it, I feel like i have burning needles in my stomach and it won't go away until I've spoken. My idea of a better world makes me suffer more, than my will to help one singular, stranger.
 
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