Would you give your life for...

alt ctrl del said:
I just don't understand what my death or your death has to do with ending crime... Or murder, or hatred.. Or.. anything on there. Eagerness to die for a cause is not a noble thing. None of us are Christs whose deaths will restore some sort of benevolent balance in the universe..
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I don't think Christ's death restored balance in the universe.
 
Dragon said:
I don't think Christ's death restored balance in the universe.
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Well, no offense, but I'm not interested in what your theological beliefs are. According to Christianity, Christ died to end spiritual death for those who believe. According to Christianity, the foundation of the world is built on this.

The questions posed in this thread reminded me of a messiah complex.

BlinkandThink said:
Obviously.

But the questions are hypothetical, so I don't think that's relevant. If my death could cause world peace, I'd do it. And if someone else had this option, I'd hope they'd make the same choice. We're all going to die anyway, so if dying sooner could result in that much good, so be it. Seems a small price to pay.
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I understand the 'would you' of the questions. I understand people believe themselves well meaning enough to sacrifice themselves for a better cause...

But when I read the questions, I couldn't help asking myself: How are the answers relevent/necessary in actually solving the problems? I read this and couldn't help ask, what practical sacrifices can be made to work at these problems.

The world is filled with cruelty and pain and injustice. How is your death going to solve that? Are you solely responsible for all these things? Are you yourself the cause of these problems?
See what I mean?

Sure sure. We're all wonderful people and let's just fantasize about our deaths freeing the world of suffering and death.. I fail to understand how this is constructive in any way.

So I am a dissenter of this 'noble' approach.
 
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alt ctrl del said:
Well, no offense, but I'm not interested in what your theological beliefs are. According to Christianity, Christ died to end spiritual death for those who believe. According to Christianity, the foundation of the world is built on this.

The questions posed in this thread reminded me of a messiah complex.


I understand the 'would you' of the questions. I understand people believe themselves well meaning enough to sacrifice themselves for a better cause...

But when I read the questions, I couldn't help asking myself: How are the answers relevent/necessary in actually solving the problems? I read this and couldn't help ask, what practical sacrifices can be made to work at these problems.

The world is filled with cruelty and pain and injustice. How is your death going to solve that? Are you solely responsible for all these things? Are you yourself the cause of these problems?
See what I mean?

Sure sure. We're all wonderful people and let's just fantasize about our deaths freeing the world of suffering and death.. I fail to understand how this is constructive in any way.

So I am a dissenter of this 'noble' approach.
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I'm just piggy backing...but +1
 
alt ctrl del said:
I understand the 'would you' of the questions. I understand people believe themselves well meaning enough to sacrifice themselves for a better cause...

But when I read the questions, I couldn't help asking myself: How are the answers relevent/necessary in actually solving the problems? I read this and couldn't help ask, what practical sacrifices can be made to work at these problems.

The world is filled with cruelty and pain and injustice. How is your death going to solve that? Are you solely responsible for all these things? Are you yourself the cause of these problems?
See what I mean?

Sure sure. We're all wonderful people and let's just fantasize about our deaths freeing the world of suffering and death.. I fail to understand how this is constructive in any way.

So I am a dissenter of this 'noble' approach.
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I think there's a communication gap here somewhere. To me, the question was no different than being asked if there was a mountain made of peanut butter, and I had to eat my way through it, would I eat straight forward or at a diagonal. Definitely no fantasizing here, just answering honestly ... maybe it's different for the other people who answered, but I can only speak for myself.
 
1) The cure for cancer?
No
2) The cure for migraines?
No
3) The ending of all wars forever?
don't see how that is realistically possible, but yes.
4) An end to world hunger?
again, purely hypothetical? I might. not sure.
5) To save 1,000,000 lives of random people throughout the world?
yes
6) To save 100,000 lives of random people throughout the world?
maybe
7) To save 10,000 lives of random people throughout the world?
no
8) To save 1,000 lives of random people throughout the world?
no
9) To save 100 lives of random people throughout the world?
no
10) To save 10 lives of random people throughout the world?
no
11) The ending of murder?
yes (would martyrdom be included in that? lol)
12) The ending of crime?
I don't know
13) The ending of ignorant hatred?
there'll always be hatred. so no.
14) A solution to all of our environmental problems?
possibly. animals deserve to live too.
 
And deprive the world of my lovely presence? Pish Posh. Heh.
Dying for a cause is the easiest thing in the world. Living and fighting for one... different beast altogether. Dying is the cheap way out. You don't have to do much and you get all the glory for being a hero. I prefer to fight. Its harder but more effective. If I do have to die for a cause, I'm going down fighting.

I have no idea if this is even partially relevant to the conversation. hee.
 
Bored Now said:
And deprive the world of my lovely presence? Pish Posh. Heh.
Dying for a cause is the easiest thing in the world. Living and fighting for one... different beast altogether. Dying is the cheap way out. You don't have to do much and you get all the glory for being a hero. I prefer to fight. Its harder but more effective. If I do have to die for a cause, I'm going down fighting.

I have no idea if this is even partially relevant to the conversation. hee.
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dying is cheap? not when you've got only one life to live...
 
May said:
dying is cheap? not when you've got only one life to live...
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Maybe not cheap, but passive in a path of least resistance sort of way. Its an odd thing to want to die for something when you have a CHOICE to live and fight another day. I'm just saying if I had a choice to fight for a cause and usher change or to be a martyr and inspire change, I'd choose the fighting. Martyrs make for great allegories, but its the workers and fighters that get things done and make change happen. Martyrs serve as inspiration, and that's great. Some people need inspiration. But, I don't know, I just prefer a more active approach to helping. It just seems self serving and unrealistic. Its like a line from a poem I read when I was little "Death is a slave's freedom."That always struck me and made me want to live for what I believed in rather than die for it.

I think I just don't really understand the premise of dying to cure migraines. Maybe if someone could explain to me in a concrete way how dying would cure cancer or save 10,000,000, I could get on board. Its just my life experience hasn't showed me that dying is better than living. I prolly have to suspend my disbelief to understand. I'm clearly overthinking this. Meh. I need tea before I think of these things. Heh. *makes some oolong and ponders life's mysteries*
 
Bored Now said:
Maybe not cheap, but passive in a path of least resistance sort of way. Its an odd thing to want to die for something when you have a CHOICE to live and fight another day. I'm just saying if I had a choice to fight for a cause and usher change or to be a martyr and inspire change, I'd choose the fighting. Martyrs make for great allegories, but its the workers and fighters that get things done and make change happen. Martyrs serve as inspiration, and that's great. Some people need inspiration. But, I don't know, I just prefer a more active approach to helping. It just seems self serving and unrealistic. Its like a line from a poem I read when I was little "Death is a slave's freedom."That always struck me and made me want to live for what I believed in rather than die for it.
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Agreed
 
When I think about this, I look at myself and the life I view I will *probably* live, which is by not really saving that many people. I WANT to, and perhaps I may, but I am unsure in truth, and so these are my answers.

1) The cure for cancer?

Yes, because I wouldn't be able to provide this through living and I believe it would save a great many lives. However, I would be hard pressed to give my life without some guarantee that this cure would be available to anyone who needed it.

2) The cure for migraines?

No.

3) The ending of all wars forever?

Absolutely, although I don't think this could ever be truly guaranteed. This would fundamentally change the nature of man. Or require some sort of re-definition of the word war.

4) An end to world hunger?

Hell yes


5) To save 1,000,000 lives of random people throughout the world?

Hell yes

6) To save 100,000 lives of random people throughout the world?

Hell yes

7) To save 10,000 lives of random people throughout the world?

Would probably depend on my mood a the time.

8) To save 1,000 lives of random people throughout the world?

Doubt it

9) To save 100 lives of random people throughout the world?

Nope

10) To save 10 lives of random people throughout the world?

Nope

11) The ending of murder?

This requires a definition of murder. Does it only apply to humans, does it extend to animals? What about the Earth?

12) The ending of crime?

I would definitely give my life to create a Utopia, if that is what the question implies.

13) The ending of ignorant hatred?

Too subjective.

14) A solution to all of our environmental problems?

Depends on the solution.
 
My problem with all of this is that I don't necessarily consider death a 'bad' thing, nor do I see living as the 'ideal' solution for all of the people suffering. I don't know what happens when we die, nor do I know if anything happens.

The only thing I subjectively know is what living is. I'd rather not end my life for the cause of something. If I happen to die because I'm fighting for something, well then great. Martyrdom is not a choice a person can make. It's not, yeah I'll be a martyr, or no I won't. Martyrdom comes from situations beyond our choices.

I'd rather live and help people through life (which will come to an end for everyone), and help them through what they're living through. If I can cure cancer by living and fighting, well that's awesome. If I can only make one person smile through my living and fighting, that's just as good to me.

I can't choose to die for these causes, because that puts a value on human life. I would be valuing all of those people above myself. Do I think I'm as important as everyone else? No. But I also don't see my life as having any less worth.

If I die for a billion, there are still seven billion I haven't died for. To me, there is no value to human life, and we all have the right to continue on living...including myself.
 
mf said:
My problem with all of this is that I don't necessarily consider death a 'bad' thing, nor do I see living as the 'ideal' solution for all of the people suffering. I don't know what happens when we die, nor do I know if anything happens.

The only thing I subjectively know is what living is. I'd rather not end my life for the cause of something. If I happen to die because I'm fighting for something, well then great. Martyrdom is not a choice a person can make. It's not, yeah I'll be a martyr, or no I won't. Martyrdom comes from situations beyond our choices.

I'd rather live and help people through life (which will come to an end for everyone), and help them through what they're living through. If I can cure cancer by living and fighting, well that's awesome. If I can only make one person smile through my living and fighting, that's just as good to me.

I can't choose to die for these causes, because that puts a value on human life. I would be valuing all of those people above myself. Do I think I'm as important as everyone else? No. But I also don't see my life as having any less worth.

If I die for a billion, there are still seven billion I haven't died for. To me, there is no value to human life, and we all have the right to continue on living...including myself.
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My justification isn't about wanting to die or wanting to simply be a martyr. It is more about bringing the most good into the world with my life as possible. If I think I can bring more good into the world by people suffering less by me giving my life then I am quite content to do so. This isn't necessarily about preventing the loss of lives as much as it is about comforting those that would be left to carry on without those who died.

Perhaps if I had a family I would put more weight on my life because of those whom I would leave behind, but right now I am relatively free.
 
NeverAmI said:
My justification isn't about wanting to die or wanting to simply be a martyr. It is more about bringing the most good into the world with my life as possible. If I think I can bring more good into the world by people suffering less by me giving my life then I am quite content to do so. This isn't necessarily about preventing the loss of lives as much as it is about comforting those that would be left to carry on without those who died.

Perhaps if I had a family I would put more weight on my life because of those whom I would leave behind, but right now I am relatively free.
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I hope you didn't think that you thought I was calling you (or anyone else) a martyr. I respect everyone's opinion, and just thought I should voice mine.

I respect what you're saying. Right on, man!
 
mf said:
I hope you didn't think that you thought I was calling you (or anyone else) a martyr. I respect everyone's opinion, and just thought I should voice mine.

I respect what you're saying. Right on, man!
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No, no. Not at all! I like to write it out to clarify my thoughts, which certainly helps myself more than most I think. I definitely enjoy hearing other perspectives, that is part of growth. I enjoy your perspectives on all things!
 
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